Competitive play regulations
WildChicken
Join Date: 2004-08-25 Member: 30891Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2004-08-25 Member: 30891Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Equipment, macros and more</div>We've had a small discussion in Hg about what's going to be allowed and what's not going to be allowed in future tournaments / competitive play in general.
Lua (and similar) editing aside, what is the official/unofficial stance on the subtler changes such as macros? We've been talking about med/ammo one-click macros for a while, where instead of doing e,s,mouseclick it'd just be one button press and done, leaving your menu where you had it before.
On top of that, what's your perspective on out-of-game equipment such as keyboards with LCD monitors that can display additional in-game information and timers? I was thinking about writing an application that would track non-obvious timers such as time until hive completion for alien comm and similar.
Would I be disallowed the use of these things on the center stage that Hugh always speaks of or would they be kosher? Is the ultra-moddable game moddable in competitive play or for fun only?
Edit: Historically, what's your view on pistol script / bhop script?
Lua (and similar) editing aside, what is the official/unofficial stance on the subtler changes such as macros? We've been talking about med/ammo one-click macros for a while, where instead of doing e,s,mouseclick it'd just be one button press and done, leaving your menu where you had it before.
On top of that, what's your perspective on out-of-game equipment such as keyboards with LCD monitors that can display additional in-game information and timers? I was thinking about writing an application that would track non-obvious timers such as time until hive completion for alien comm and similar.
Would I be disallowed the use of these things on the center stage that Hugh always speaks of or would they be kosher? Is the ultra-moddable game moddable in competitive play or for fun only?
Edit: Historically, what's your view on pistol script / bhop script?
Comments
I don't personally care what script or macro you use in any circumstance.
If it's actually game breaking by some stretch just fix the mechanic being exploited by the scripting / macroing such that it's not necessary to do it. That's the best solution in every instance I've ever seen it happen.
I personally don't care, if someone can click faster than someone else cause of finger dexterity / hand size / whatever and I need a script to help me shoot faster its only making it more even. The skill should be aim / movement rather than physical attributes...
After all... we play computer games to escape from our big fat slow bodies and be space marines!
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All players are allowed to use their personal equipment as stated by the following list:
<ul><li>Keyboard</li><li>Mouse</li><li>Mouse Drivers</li><li>Mouse Pad</li><li>Mouse Stand</li><li>Earphones</li></ul>All Player equipment is subject to approval.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some add something like this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No macro functions on keyboards/mice are allowed to be used in any tournament games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Automedpack script. GL HF biting marines eh.
Any device, code, script, macro, or anything else that allows a unfair advantage, however slight, is enough to cause massive complaints etc after a game, and can really detract from the game.
A good example is baseball (if your from NA) and how they dont allow pitchers to have pine-tar (a sticky substance) on their hands. It allows for extra spin on the ball, and is a illegal offence in baseball. The same goes for steriods, non-regulation equipment etc.
Competitive gaming should be a vanilla playing field where the ONLY thing seperating 1st from 2nd is SKILL and STRATEGY, not your macro's or w/e.
I would be extremely dissapointed to see a tournament or league that allowed such unfair advantages, if they do we might as well allow texture mods and other crap that ruins the level playing field.
FYI, When I say Vanilla I mean as the game is from the dev, ie All the options in the options menu are fair game.
I am talking about "3rd party" things.
Any device, code, script, macro, or anything else that allows a unfair advantage, however slight, is enough to cause massive complaints etc after a game, and can really detract from the game.
A good example is baseball (if your from NA) and how they dont allow pitchers to have pine-tar (a sticky substance) on their hands. It allows for extra spin on the ball, and is a illegal offence in baseball. The same goes for steriods, non-regulation equipment etc.
Competitive gaming should be a vanilla playing field where the ONLY thing seperating 1st from 2nd is SKILL and STRATEGY, not your macro's or w/e.
I would be extremely dissapointed to see a tournament or league that allowed such unfair advantages, if they do we might as well allow texture mods and other crap that ruins the level playing field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A counter baseball example would be <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_bat" target="_blank">baseball bats</a>. Many baseball leagues set general standards on acceptable baseball bats rather than forcing everyone to use the same type of bat. An analagous rule in NS2 would be to describe general standards on acceptable crosshairs and allow people to use crosshair mods that pass those standards.
I am talking about "3rd party" things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well most scripting tools are "1st party" tools done entirely with console commands or text files loaded with them. If I type "bind mwheelup +attack" or equivalent in console, I'm playing the "vanilla" game straight from the devs, but I can fire my pistol insanely fast.
Any device, code, script, macro, or anything else that allows a unfair advantage, however slight, is enough to cause massive complaints etc after a game, and can really detract from the game.
A good example is baseball (if your from NA) and how they dont allow pitchers to have pine-tar (a sticky substance) on their hands. It allows for extra spin on the ball, and is a illegal offence in baseball. The same goes for steriods, non-regulation equipment etc.
Competitive gaming should be a vanilla playing field where the ONLY thing seperating 1st from 2nd is SKILL and STRATEGY, not your macro's or w/e.
I would be extremely dissapointed to see a tournament or league that allowed such unfair advantages, if they do we might as well allow texture mods and other crap that ruins the level playing field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the other point is that is has absolutely nothing to do with fairness.
If the rules are the same for all players, they are fair.
If we allow scripts, macros or even aim bots, it is fair as long as the option is available to all players. We can allow macros and aim bots, and we would still have a fair game because every time would have the option of using them.
so what the discussion is actually about is what set of rules highlights the kind of play we wish to promote in the competitive scene. This is very different from a discussion of what is fair.
An example form the past is scripting in NS1. It was decided that the community didn't want the skill of pressing buttons at exactly the right time be tested by competition. So scripts were allowed by the rules so that players could remove the timing requirements for things like pistol shooting and bhop, or make life easier with medpack calling scripts etc. It was fair because all players could use the scripts with out penalty. It changed the skill set needed for the game.
An other example is 'gamma hacking.' It was ruled that we didn't want monitor setup, graphics drivers, or the ability to see dark images on the monitor to be tested as a skill to use in the game, so gamma correcting software was allowed. Every one had the option of using this, so it is fair.
It really comes down to where you draw the line, and it is totally subjective.
For example in your baseball analogy, it would make just as much sense for the rules to allow pine-sap on the pitchers hand. The result would be all pitchers use pine-sap to improve their game. It would change the game of baseball, but would it be unfair? No it wouldn't because all pitchers would have the option of using pine-sap. In this case the people who make rules for baseball decided that pine-sap use was going to break the game. You could also change the rules and allow steroids. All players could use it, and it would be fair. The game changes in this case to include advantages from how good your team's sports doctors are as well as how good your players are, and they decided that wasn't what they wanted the game to be about.
tldr: this isn't about what is fair. it is about what aspects of team we want to contribute to them winning.
It comes down to the need for a strict set of rules from the tournament/event co-ordinator. Player skill has to shine some how, and its easier to exclude things than it is to include things, if someone makes a good macro for say pistol firing etc then they would have to inform the other teams of it, amd give people time to get it etc.
Its easier to just include nothing, or one to two things.
Its better to nip the problem early before someone wins a game by firing his pistol like a machine gun or w/e in a finals and causes mass drama.
Side comment; Also there is a clear paradox forming.. People cry for skill-based movement... And then macro it... Where's the skill in that...
The pistol cannot be fired faster than the animation allows so macro or just fast clicking doesnt matter...
And goodluck macroing any kind of 'skill based' movement.
If you want player skill to shine you need to actually make a skill based game, not a numbers/tatics game.
Way to misrepresent that particular group. Removing the usefulness of a macro has been the number one suggestion put forward by those of us who want to see "skill-based movement". As eh has already stated, a properly designed feature shouldn't leave any room for grey-area tools like scripts or macros.
Some examples:
- Quake style jump queuing (for bunnyhopping, would remove any positive effect from using scripts/macro).
- Option for binding a button to request medpacks (already in the game, removes the need for a request med script).
- Make the HUD fully customizable in the ingame menu (see Quake Live, removes the need for 3rd party hud mods).
Some examples:
- Quake style jump queuing (for bunnyhopping, would remove any positive effect from using scripts/macro).
- Option for binding a button to request medpacks (already in the game, removes the need for a request med script).
- Make the HUD fully customizable in the ingame menu (see Quake Live, removes the need for 3rd party hud mods).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please do not assume I mean EVERYONE who uses macros.
Edit: I do, however, think that custom crosshairs should be allowed, because the current ones are bull.
Hope that makes sense :-}