Small niggles/requests before release
fanatic
This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Since we're getting close to release, I realize time is very much limited and needs to be prioritized. The time for sweeping changes is over, at least until after 1.0. There are, however, a few smaller issues I'd like to point out in the hopes that they will get looked at. Most, if not all, of these should hopefully take little time to rectify. Some are bugs, others are features I think could be improved. It's very possible you already know about the bugs.
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>(1) Cyst bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Sometimes the alien starting hive harvester will not have cysts leading up to it, giving aliens an additional cost at the start of the round and causing damage to the harvester.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(2) Pistol bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Sometimes, when switching to the pistol, it will not fire. The only way to un-jam it, is to switch to another weapon and then back to the pistol. Leads to very frustrating and unfair deaths.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(3) Frag message time:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Following the frag message feed is essential to keeping track of what's going on in the game, both when you're playing in the field and when you're spectating a game. Unfortunately, the messages in the feed right now disappear very fast; a lot faster than they used to in NS1. In hectic situations it's very easy to miss some of the messages because they disappear so fast, leaving you without potentially vital information. Doubling the time each message stays on the screen before disappearing should be enough to fix this.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(4) Frag message spam:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Similar problem to point 3, but this time related to unimportant messages basically spamming the frag message feed, making it harder to notice the important messages in between. This is primarily a problem with cysts (cyst "frags" are largely useless information), but frags of non-essential structures like armories, resource towers, shades, crags, and so forth, are also mostly useless information. I would be very happy if you could at least remove the cysts from the feed. Of the structures, I would ideally like to see only hives and command stations displayed in the feed, though.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(5) Feedback delays:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I know this is largely dependant on latency, for example with regards to the damage indicators and frag messages, which obviously you can't do anything about, but at least you shouldn't make it worse by adding prolonging animations to the feedback. One particularly important example is the health/armor bar. For aliens, especially the fade and lerk, being able to gauge the exact amount of damage you're taking is essential to your survival. Any delay on that information can potentially get you killed due to misleading the player into miscalculating his current position ("can I withstand this DPS or do I have to run away if I want to survive?") -- and it does get me killed on a regular basis as well. Please remove all the non-latency-enforced feedback delays, or at least add an option to turn them off. The excellent <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116254" target="_blank">instant hud mod</a> should provide you with almost everything you need to do this.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(6) Sound bugs:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> This one might be a little more tricky than the others mentioned so far, but it is a very important one. As discussed in other threads on this forum during the past week, the directional sound sometimes bugs out depending on what speaker configuration you're running or whether or not you're strafing. The sound effects are still not as accurate as they ideally should be either. It has gotten a lot better than it used to be, but it is difficult to gauge exactly where the enemies are located just by the sounds they make. Sometimes they sound like they're right next to you, even though they're really in an entirely different room; other times they sound like they're in the next room even though they're just around the corner.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(7) Marine footstep sounds:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Put simply; marines are too quiet. It is far too easy to ninja as marines. There's no reason why a running marine should make less sound than a skulk, so perhaps just put the marine footstep sounds on the same level as skulk footsteps.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(8) Skulk walk key:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Skulks often need to be completely silent in order not to alert the marines of his presence; and thus enablind an ambush. The walk key is the only way for the skulk to move quietly. It is therefore of paramount importance that the walk key provides that function (silent movement) flawlessly in all situations. Currently, however, it does not. I've lost count of the times I've tried to walk as a skulk, but instead of moving me forward it stucks me to some wall, forcing me to use the directional keys to move, alerting all the marines in the vicinity of my presence. The reason for this, is that the skulk extra-sticky wallwalk key is located on the same key as the regular skulk walk. The easiest way to solve the problem is simply to separate the two functions into two separate keys. This problem makes ambushing so difficult right now and I really can't stress enough how important it is that this gets looked at.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(9) More keybinds:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Some basic keybinds are still missing. While it can be solved through binding the keys manually in the console, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to just bind these keys in the main menu. I am specifically talking about join team functions (should be F1 to join marines, F2 to join aliens and F3 to join spectators, as it was in NS1) and request ammo.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(10) Auto requests:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Please remove the ammo auto request. It is driving comms mad and annoying marines who might not feel like they actually need ammo at that particular time.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(11) Music volume slider:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently there is no way to independently regulate the volume of the game startup music, the victory music or the "command station/hive low health" music. Please add a separate slider, or add these functions to the music volume slider already in the menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(12) Shaky machinegun:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> For some reason, the screen starts shaking a lot whenever you fire the machinegun. This is both disorenting and a nuisance for players. It is the only weapon that has such an effect. Please either remove this effect or make it possible to turn it off in the options menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(13) Low health effects:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently, sound is muffled and the player's screen starts blinking red when his health is below a certain percentage. While some players might find this exciting, many others find it disorienting and annoying. Please either remove this effect or make it possible to turn it off in the options menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(14) Assists:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Players are currently only awarded for getting the last hit, even if it was an entirely different player who did all the damage, except for that final shot. This is both unfair and unconducive to teamplay. I've already seen a working low-key assists mod on the All-In servers that works great and should just be added to the game. All it does is add another line called "Assists" to the scoreboard, next to the amount of frags (ideally I'd put it after the amount of deaths though), and that's all that is needed.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(15) Acceleration delay on movement:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently there is some sort of acceleration delay on movement, particularly noticeable when playing as skulk. While it reacts instantly to keypresses (starts moving the instant you press the button), it takes some time for your movement to ramp up to full speed. While this might be realistic, it also makes it a lot harder to be accurate in your movements. I would like to see this delay either removed, or at least lessened to allow for more accurate control over movement.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(16) Celerity blur effect:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> While less opaque than it used to be, celerity still blurs your screen while moving. Since the "downsides" approach to upgrades has been canned (see carapace movement slowdown removal), this should also be removed now, or at the very least be made possible to turn off in the options menu. Please also consider making celerity a straight movement speed boost; the current ramp-up time doesn't add anything to gameplay.
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>(1) Cyst bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Sometimes the alien starting hive harvester will not have cysts leading up to it, giving aliens an additional cost at the start of the round and causing damage to the harvester.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(2) Pistol bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Sometimes, when switching to the pistol, it will not fire. The only way to un-jam it, is to switch to another weapon and then back to the pistol. Leads to very frustrating and unfair deaths.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(3) Frag message time:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Following the frag message feed is essential to keeping track of what's going on in the game, both when you're playing in the field and when you're spectating a game. Unfortunately, the messages in the feed right now disappear very fast; a lot faster than they used to in NS1. In hectic situations it's very easy to miss some of the messages because they disappear so fast, leaving you without potentially vital information. Doubling the time each message stays on the screen before disappearing should be enough to fix this.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(4) Frag message spam:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Similar problem to point 3, but this time related to unimportant messages basically spamming the frag message feed, making it harder to notice the important messages in between. This is primarily a problem with cysts (cyst "frags" are largely useless information), but frags of non-essential structures like armories, resource towers, shades, crags, and so forth, are also mostly useless information. I would be very happy if you could at least remove the cysts from the feed. Of the structures, I would ideally like to see only hives and command stations displayed in the feed, though.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(5) Feedback delays:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I know this is largely dependant on latency, for example with regards to the damage indicators and frag messages, which obviously you can't do anything about, but at least you shouldn't make it worse by adding prolonging animations to the feedback. One particularly important example is the health/armor bar. For aliens, especially the fade and lerk, being able to gauge the exact amount of damage you're taking is essential to your survival. Any delay on that information can potentially get you killed due to misleading the player into miscalculating his current position ("can I withstand this DPS or do I have to run away if I want to survive?") -- and it does get me killed on a regular basis as well. Please remove all the non-latency-enforced feedback delays, or at least add an option to turn them off. The excellent <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116254" target="_blank">instant hud mod</a> should provide you with almost everything you need to do this.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(6) Sound bugs:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> This one might be a little more tricky than the others mentioned so far, but it is a very important one. As discussed in other threads on this forum during the past week, the directional sound sometimes bugs out depending on what speaker configuration you're running or whether or not you're strafing. The sound effects are still not as accurate as they ideally should be either. It has gotten a lot better than it used to be, but it is difficult to gauge exactly where the enemies are located just by the sounds they make. Sometimes they sound like they're right next to you, even though they're really in an entirely different room; other times they sound like they're in the next room even though they're just around the corner.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(7) Marine footstep sounds:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Put simply; marines are too quiet. It is far too easy to ninja as marines. There's no reason why a running marine should make less sound than a skulk, so perhaps just put the marine footstep sounds on the same level as skulk footsteps.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(8) Skulk walk key:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Skulks often need to be completely silent in order not to alert the marines of his presence; and thus enablind an ambush. The walk key is the only way for the skulk to move quietly. It is therefore of paramount importance that the walk key provides that function (silent movement) flawlessly in all situations. Currently, however, it does not. I've lost count of the times I've tried to walk as a skulk, but instead of moving me forward it stucks me to some wall, forcing me to use the directional keys to move, alerting all the marines in the vicinity of my presence. The reason for this, is that the skulk extra-sticky wallwalk key is located on the same key as the regular skulk walk. The easiest way to solve the problem is simply to separate the two functions into two separate keys. This problem makes ambushing so difficult right now and I really can't stress enough how important it is that this gets looked at.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(9) More keybinds:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Some basic keybinds are still missing. While it can be solved through binding the keys manually in the console, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to just bind these keys in the main menu. I am specifically talking about join team functions (should be F1 to join marines, F2 to join aliens and F3 to join spectators, as it was in NS1) and request ammo.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(10) Auto requests:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Please remove the ammo auto request. It is driving comms mad and annoying marines who might not feel like they actually need ammo at that particular time.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(11) Music volume slider:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently there is no way to independently regulate the volume of the game startup music, the victory music or the "command station/hive low health" music. Please add a separate slider, or add these functions to the music volume slider already in the menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(12) Shaky machinegun:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> For some reason, the screen starts shaking a lot whenever you fire the machinegun. This is both disorenting and a nuisance for players. It is the only weapon that has such an effect. Please either remove this effect or make it possible to turn it off in the options menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(13) Low health effects:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently, sound is muffled and the player's screen starts blinking red when his health is below a certain percentage. While some players might find this exciting, many others find it disorienting and annoying. Please either remove this effect or make it possible to turn it off in the options menu.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(14) Assists:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Players are currently only awarded for getting the last hit, even if it was an entirely different player who did all the damage, except for that final shot. This is both unfair and unconducive to teamplay. I've already seen a working low-key assists mod on the All-In servers that works great and should just be added to the game. All it does is add another line called "Assists" to the scoreboard, next to the amount of frags (ideally I'd put it after the amount of deaths though), and that's all that is needed.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(15) Acceleration delay on movement:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Currently there is some sort of acceleration delay on movement, particularly noticeable when playing as skulk. While it reacts instantly to keypresses (starts moving the instant you press the button), it takes some time for your movement to ramp up to full speed. While this might be realistic, it also makes it a lot harder to be accurate in your movements. I would like to see this delay either removed, or at least lessened to allow for more accurate control over movement.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>(16) Celerity blur effect:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> While less opaque than it used to be, celerity still blurs your screen while moving. Since the "downsides" approach to upgrades has been canned (see carapace movement slowdown removal), this should also be removed now, or at the very least be made possible to turn off in the options menu. Please also consider making celerity a straight movement speed boost; the current ramp-up time doesn't add anything to gameplay.
Comments
Posting on which map/hive this happens can help the devs to fix this problem.
For 3) you can also put the death messages in the console.
Veil->Pipeline is notorious
Summit->Atrium recently
Summit->Sub Access (not as much as it did previously)
A lot of the custom maps I play have the issue.
Only 16? =D
+1 to all
they should make the killfeed like tf2 where kills that involve you stay up longer
For the cyst kill spam, maybe make it a multiplier when many cysts have been killed?
TimMc <icon> Cyst x1... x2... x3 increasing as I kill them rather than many messages.
I have also had this happen with the rifle and axe. In my experience this bug is often triggered by getting hit by onos gore or stomp.
Also +1 on the no auto requests, they are terribly annoying and rather redundant now that the widgets are ingame.
This is the one I think is the most important and it really is the biggest contributor to the "sluggish" movement people talk about. Doing this for all classes, especially the marine will really loosen up movement and make it feel more responsive. I'd also like to add on that crouch jump still needs another pass. I'm sure it's on their list though.
2. Hasn't been reported; get us a video?
3 and 4. First time hearing this other than playful comments in playtests about cyst killing spam.
5. Known
6. Sort of known; there are other issues than just this with sound.
7. Small tweak
8. Something bigger that will need time to be looked into.
9. Key bindings are limited at the moment, that's why a lot of the ones you're used to are still missing.
10. Known (a lot of PT's agree)
11. Known
12 and 13. Was put in as polish. Soon we'll have more options than Blacklight.
14. Known - most likely a post-1.0 feature
15. Hardly noticeable, more like you're nit-picking now.
16. See 12/13. It's not going to be changed in terms of acceleration vs. flat boost.
Just 16? I was expecting more. ):
I think number 15 is a really good point. Like the rest of them.
If you want to talk to Charlie about it, then go for it.
It is one of the most important ones on the list in my opinion. The marine movement feels very sluggish especially after playing some other good FPS game.
Here's what I wrote to Charlie about it some time ago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine Movement
Also marine movement is very restricted currently because of sprint, slow strafing, reversing and slow acceleration. I didn't see this as a big problem before watching some Counter-Strike and Natural Selection gameplay and playing the NS2C mod this weekend. My jaw dropped couple of times when watching skillful players to perform awesome moves in the middle of combat.
The problem in NS2 is that marines have sprint which allows them to move fast while not in combat but in combat their movement is very limited thus lowering the skill ceiling significantly. Marines also accelerate slowly everytime you change the direction you want to move to making the movement feel like your player character had rollerskates. Also the jump mechanics feel quite frustrating sometimes. I think it's good to do something to prevent constant jump spamming but currently it's way too hard to climb on crates, railing etc. because you need to have a long pause between two jumps. Maybe some small tweaking could fix this issue too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree with everything on the list, especially with the delay on moving, and well lots of other stuff should be changed on movement aswell. Feels so bad after playing movement mod a bit.
Agree with everything on the list, especially with the delay on moving, and well lots of other stuff should be changed on movement aswell. Feels so bad after playing movement mod a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We try the best we can, but obviously things slip by and if they/we aren't aware of it then it's not going to get fixed.
I understand that, its just that it happens atleast once for every 3-4 hours of gameplay for me, and has been going on for months/more than a year. Just feels weird it was never noticed by anyone.
Pretty sure it's been said at least a half a dozen times, if not more.
Hardly surprised though.
Hardly surprised though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not in our bug tracking anymore so either it was fixed once and returned or it was never reported. Take your pick.
Also saying something =/= getting a video to help fix it.
Yea the netcode has a lot to do with movement, that's a big issue as walljumping when it will be implemented is never accurate. Hell most of the time I can barely spam jump and not be running on the ground as a skulk. But that's not the worst part, believe it or not. The acceleration is really awkward because your momentum gets stored so strafing side to side would always resort in a different speed, leading skulks accurately or sniping with parasite using the A and D keys is annoying and not recommended. Completely counter-intuitive to what you would expect in every other shooter.
It's actually supposed to be disorienting and annoying. Being able to turn it off would amount to cheating or make it useless, i.e. nobody would ever want to have it on.
For developers: If you're trying to track down the bug and you don't know what causes it, my "shoot" key is actually F (mouse right = forward, mouse left = backwards). Not sure if that makes a difference but it might be caused by some mouse bind problem. Just an idea of where to maybe look...
Agree to everything.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's actually supposed to be disorienting and annoying. Being able to turn it off would amount to cheating or make it useless, i.e. nobody would ever want to have it on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think about that for a moment.
I wish I knew how to reproduce it, but I don't. It seems to happen randomly when switching weapons, although I'm sure it isn't actually random. It typically happens when you're in combat with a skulk; empty your machinegun and then switch to pistol to finish him off. A video wouldn't show anything, as other posters have explained. This has been a problem for over 6 months now, so it's surprising that it hasn't been reported yet -- even more so since I know PTs who have plenty of "experience" with the pistol bug. Guess everybody thought it was already reported?
<!--quoteo(post=1987104:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3 and 4. First time hearing this other than playful comments in playtests about cyst killing spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was a lot of talk about frag message spam on the forums about a year ago, but nothing happened and I guess most people just got used to it. Doesn't mean it isn't still an issue though. I guess I can live with the spam (although I don't really see why it shouldn't be changed), but the frag message time is a bigger problem and super-easy to fix.
<!--quoteo(post=1987104:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->12 and 13. Was put in as polish. Soon we'll have more options than Blacklight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very happy to hear this, provided I'm interpreting it correctly.
<!--quoteo(post=1987104:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->15. Hardly noticeable, more like you're nit-picking now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would actually rate this pretty high if asked to list them in order of most important.
<!--quoteo(post=1987104:date=Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Oct 5 2012, 12:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just 16? I was expecting more. ):<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wish I could make it longer, but those damn pills I ordered on the Internet don't work...
If i had to guess, the cause would be the same cause that has been identified and not fixed since forever. That is, something occuring on the same frame as the pistol or what have you animation starting, locking you out entirely unless you switch weapons. Easily observable with onos stomp 'jamming' your gun.
My guess is it could be flinching/jumping animations 'interupting' the pistol animation chain.
oh yea, let me add another one
17) The ammount of jetpack smoke needs to be decreased and the transparency increased.