AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1988288:date=Oct 8 2012, 01:54 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Oct 8 2012, 01:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988288"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since the thread was a bit tl;dr for me I reported the lerk spikes not being affected by silence 2 builds ago, and koujisan said it would be fixed... still hasnt been, whuts going on?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure spike is affected by silence. Its the spike inpact sound that is not, but neither is any other impact sound.
I'm not sure it qualifies as a small request, but Lerk movement seems dependent on framerate. I was experiencing very low framerate and short lags on ns2_mineshaft, and until my framerate recovered I would either hover in place or barely move. It's probably similar for other lifeforms, but it's most pronounced with Lerk as you're rarely touching a surface and need to be constantly moving.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about displaying ammo count for marines when playing as marine commander?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! I have wanted this for several builds. Displaying alien energy would also be a perk.
<!--quoteo(post=1987104:date=Oct 4 2012, 07:01 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Oct 4 2012, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->15. Hardly noticeable, more like you're nit-picking now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I and many others would consider movement acceleration the biggest immediately fixable issue in the game. Movement is a hallmark of NS, and it's currently muddy.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1987405:date=Oct 5 2012, 06:47 AM:name=Garfu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Garfu @ Oct 5 2012, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1987405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can reproduce the pistol not firing bug. It happens to me all the time. As Skie posted, it happens when jumping and switching to the pistol, I didn't know it had to do with reloading also but now that I do, it's easily reproducible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A video of you doing it several times would help (I'm having trouble reproing it). Also, are you running fsfod's menumod and using it to keybind a lastweapon key?
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1988362:date=Oct 8 2012, 04:04 AM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Oct 8 2012, 04:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure spike is affected by silence. Its the spike inpact sound that is not, but neither is any other impact sound.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its the impact sound which you hear as silenced lerk
"record a video of it so we can test it" i see this said alot by playtesters. Do you guys actually play the game??
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?
Niggle: Other players flashlights illuminating the maps fog. it's so thick I can't see through it. affect also seems to stack with more players flashlights. Exo's flash light does not do this maybe look at copy pasting code as a quick fix.
Niggle. If welder is present in a weapons slot. Welder should always take presidence when using the (Use) key It's superior and it does everything the build tool does only better.
I'd also like to add that a much more polished infestation should be implemented. Your original tech video from 7 years ago looks better then the DI we see in game today. just saying.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1989023:date=Oct 9 2012, 04:39 PM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 9 2012, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"record a video of it so we can test it" i see this said alot by playtesters. Do you guys actually play the game??
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're not questioning the bugs existence (I've had it happen to me before), but videos can be very helpful in getting reliable repro steps. In general, the best way to help get bugs fixed is to provide as much info as possible (descriptions, pictures, and videos).
<!--quoteo(post=1989023:date=Oct 10 2012, 09:39 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 10 2012, 09:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"record a video of it so we can test it" i see this said alot by playtesters. Do you guys actually play the game??
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Job? You think they're getting paid? They're a group of volunteers, putting in their time for free. Providing a video saves them the time they would have wasted trying to figure out how to recreate the bug themselves. For free.
<!--quoteo(post=1988497:date=Oct 8 2012, 06:46 PM:name=ThyReaper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThyReaper @ Oct 8 2012, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure it qualifies as a small request, but Lerk movement seems dependent on framerate. I was experiencing very low framerate and short lags on ns2_mineshaft, and until my framerate recovered I would either hover in place or barely move. It's probably similar for other lifeforms, but it's most pronounced with Lerk as you're rarely touching a surface and need to be constantly moving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1989251:date=Oct 10 2012, 03:31 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Oct 10 2012, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps silence should also reduce impact sound as well? It would make it a more viable option or path in competitive. Or would that be a little OP?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it would be okay if you just reduced the impact sound a bit, at least for spikes. But I would not make it totally silent, that would be too powerful as you imply.
<!--quoteo(post=1989005:date=Oct 9 2012, 04:52 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Oct 9 2012, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A video of you doing it several times would help (I'm having trouble reproing it). Also, are you running fsfod's menumod and using it to keybind a lastweapon key?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not using a last weapon key. I'll make a video of it this evening.
<b>1. Cyst bug:</b> Agree. I can't believe this hasn't been addressed yet.
<b>2. Pistol bug:</b> I get dry firing on other weapons as well, not just pistol, but mostly pistol.
<b>3. Frag message time:</b> See 4
<b>4. Frag message spam:</b> I don't think the information is useless, but coupled with the speed and jumbled nature of the report, it <i>becomes</i> useless because you either can't read it fast enough or you don't notice it at all. I think structure kills should be posted separately and be more pronounced. Cyst kills should probably just be ignored altogether.
<b>5. Feedback delays:</b> I've never had this issue, but I've seen many complaints
<b>6. Sound bugs:</b> Using 5.1 surround with Recon3D TruStudio, and 3D positioning is spot-on for me, with or without headphones. As far as hearing your own movement and gun sounds coming from different positions while strafing, that has to do with how sounds are sourced from the invisible player model that extends from the view of the static player camera, causing the sounds to be played from the side. An "easy" fix for this would be to force all player-made sounds to emit from the player camera instead. Otherwise, enemy positioning is perfect for me.
<b>7. Marine footsteps:</b> Agree!
<b>8. Skulk walk key:</b> So frustrating, even knowing the intentions of what it is doing. And I know a lot has been put into the coding process for this and I would never want it taken out, but seriously, make it a separate key bind like the man says.
<b>9. More keybinds:</b> Agree, I'm tired of opening up console to join a team. <i>"But, deth, just walk into a slot."</i> <b>NO!</b>
<b>10. Auto requests:</b> Agree +1,000,000
<b>11. Music volume:</b> I have music off and have no menu music. The hive/comm death sound I kind of got used to, and it serves as a good alert to those who don't have a clue the hive/comm is about to die, so they can step in and heal/weld. Victory music should never be mutable. That'd be like muting the victory music after you slide down a flag pole in Super Mario Bros.
<b>12. Shaky machine gun:</b> Never had this problem. If it shakes, it's probably because it's a machine gun.
<b>13. Low health effects:</b> I like this as a punishment for being low on health. It has always bothered me that in a lot of games, the player is virtually the same with 100 or 1 health point.
<b>15. Acceleration delay:</b> Meh, it's part of the game and how it "feels." I've always preferred to feel inertia in my FPS games, rather to have inertialess movement.
<b>16. Celerity blur:</b> Agree, it's distracting. And really 2008 in terms of "effect" it achieves. I find myself playing in alien vision if I have it.
I'd like to add another:
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>17. Gestating Bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Unable to gestate upgrades unless evolving or until player death. This happens mostly as a skulk, upgrading to just one available upgrade, such as carapace, while waiting for another, say celerity, to research -- and when it becomes available, trying to then evolve into the new upgrade, but being unable to and getting that annoying-ass <i>DOINK</i> sound telling me I can't. Grr.
Another request: add in warm-up mode before the round starts, to give people time to join teams and get ready. On the HBZ servers they have a mod that does this and it make the start of the games much smoother.
I always get confused when I join other servers and the game has already started with only a few people on each team and no coms etc. It's pretty messy.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
That gestating bug is not a bug, its a feature. One i very much hope changes (either by x amount of time adding to gestating for "re evolving" or returning to the proximity of a hive) because it was made this way as a form to prevent those who were using upgrades in an unintended way: have cara, and then instantly re evolve around a corner with regen and then back again when healed.
<!--quoteo(post=1989559:date=Oct 11 2012, 02:57 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 11 2012, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That gestating bug is not a bug, its a feature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->What about the one where you have, say, celerity and regen but when you get a 3rd hive up and want feign death you can't get it? You hit B, click feign death, it goes into the empty upgrade slot, and when you click Evolve it makes the sound but nothing happens.
No egg, no upgrade, no logic. >:(<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1988287:date=Oct 7 2012, 04:51 PM:name=Pheus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pheus @ Oct 7 2012, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to chime in that the weird movement acceleration was the first thing I noticed in ns2 and is probably my top problem with the game. It's a big contributor to what people refer to as the feeling of walking around in molasses<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. Tight, refined movement is at the heart of every good game play experience.
And Natural Selection 2's doesn't feel tight or refined. It does feel like you move through molasses, and this worries me, not just for my own sake, but for the sake of the game's mass appeal. Mass appeal means more game development and more players.
Yes, it could be argued movement physics are a personal preference, but I would argue that there's sweet-spot where things feel responsive and still obey some semblance of reality. Because at the end of the day, it's a game, not a real-world physics simulator. And it is hard to argue this game has reached that sweet spot of control fluidity.
<edit>
Now that I've considered it, even the way weapons are picked up and dropped seem to have a sluggishness as well. I think control in general needs a pass over, and it's not something that should be low on the priority list, not with a first-person shooter.
- Show the alien commander which upgrades are online. Often, an upgrade chamber dies and the commander doesn't notice. - If damaged, have alien's orange outlines briefly flash red. Clear, intuitive warning to others. Especially newbies. - When a power socket is heavily damaged, have the room's light occasionally flicker. Hard-to-miss indicator and more atmospheric -- win-win. Maybe progressive: more damage, more it flickers. High damage, intermittent periods of darkness. - 3rd person camera after you die, a la Team Fortress 2. - Consider inventory of sorts for aliens, with profiles, so players don't have to pick the same preferred upgrades. - Alternatively, "remember" which evolutions were last picked, so we can just hit evolve and not have to constantly reselect. - Additionally, on egg spawn count-down, prompt which evolutions to spawn with. - More indicative, eye-catching way-point markers on the mini-map. Giant arrow on the border, if it's not on the immediate mini-map, for example. - Show team's weapon loadout when at the armory, in some fashion. Possibly, number count by each weapon. Not many players even know that you can hit tab and see what weapons the rest of the team has and needs -- it's not intuitive. - Show the team's life form loadout when in the evolve screen. Again, possibly a number count by each form. - Re-evaluate player movement and control tightness, as mentioned.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Show the team's life form loadout when in the evolve screen. Again, possibly a number count by each form.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is already in AFAIK
Comments
I reported the lerk spikes not being affected by silence 2 builds ago, and koujisan said it would be fixed... still hasnt been, whuts going on?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure spike is affected by silence. Its the spike inpact sound that is not, but neither is any other impact sound.
Yes! I have wanted this for several builds. Displaying alien energy would also be a perk.
I and many others would consider movement acceleration the biggest immediately fixable issue in the game. Movement is a hallmark of NS, and it's currently muddy.
A video of you doing it several times would help (I'm having trouble reproing it). Also, are you running fsfod's menumod and using it to keybind a lastweapon key?
its the impact sound which you hear as silenced lerk
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?
Other players flashlights illuminating the maps fog. it's so thick I can't see through it.
affect also seems to stack with more players flashlights.
Exo's flash light does not do this maybe look at copy pasting code as a quick fix.
If welder is present in a weapons slot. Welder should always take presidence when using the (Use) key
It's superior and it does everything the build tool does only better.
Commanding at the moment is annoying since you are bombarded with requests even though they are near an armory.
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're not questioning the bugs existence (I've had it happen to me before), but videos can be very helpful in getting reliable repro steps. In general, the best way to help get bugs fixed is to provide as much info as possible (descriptions, pictures, and videos).
If people are telling you that theres a bug and how they think its reproduced why do you need a video to take him seriously, isn't it the playtesters job? You think people are making up these mystical bugs and design flaws?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Job? You think they're getting paid? They're a group of volunteers, putting in their time for free. Providing a video saves them the time they would have wasted trying to figure out how to recreate the bug themselves. For free.
Sounds like a connection cut out.
I think it would be okay if you just reduced the impact sound a bit, at least for spikes.
But I would not make it totally silent, that would be too powerful as you imply.
I'm not using a last weapon key. I'll make a video of it this evening.
<b>2. Pistol bug:</b> I get dry firing on other weapons as well, not just pistol, but mostly pistol.
<b>3. Frag message time:</b> See 4
<b>4. Frag message spam:</b> I don't think the information is useless, but coupled with the speed and jumbled nature of the report, it <i>becomes</i> useless because you either can't read it fast enough or you don't notice it at all. I think structure kills should be posted separately and be more pronounced. Cyst kills should probably just be ignored altogether.
<b>5. Feedback delays:</b> I've never had this issue, but I've seen many complaints
<b>6. Sound bugs:</b> Using 5.1 surround with Recon3D TruStudio, and 3D positioning is spot-on for me, with or without headphones. As far as hearing your own movement and gun sounds coming from different positions while strafing, that has to do with how sounds are sourced from the invisible player model that extends from the view of the static player camera, causing the sounds to be played from the side. An "easy" fix for this would be to force all player-made sounds to emit from the player camera instead. Otherwise, enemy positioning is perfect for me.
<b>7. Marine footsteps:</b> Agree!
<b>8. Skulk walk key:</b> So frustrating, even knowing the intentions of what it is doing. And I know a lot has been put into the coding process for this and I would never want it taken out, but seriously, make it a separate key bind like the man says.
<b>9. More keybinds:</b> Agree, I'm tired of opening up console to join a team. <i>"But, deth, just walk into a slot."</i> <b>NO!</b>
<b>10. Auto requests:</b> Agree +1,000,000
<b>11. Music volume:</b> I have music off and have no menu music. The hive/comm death sound I kind of got used to, and it serves as a good alert to those who don't have a clue the hive/comm is about to die, so they can step in and heal/weld. Victory music should never be mutable. That'd be like muting the victory music after you slide down a flag pole in Super Mario Bros.
<b>12. Shaky machine gun:</b> Never had this problem. If it shakes, it's probably because it's a machine gun.
<b>13. Low health effects:</b> I like this as a punishment for being low on health. It has always bothered me that in a lot of games, the player is virtually the same with 100 or 1 health point.
<b>14. Assists:</b> A.G.R.E.E. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
<b>15. Acceleration delay:</b> Meh, it's part of the game and how it "feels." I've always preferred to feel inertia in my FPS games, rather to have inertialess movement.
<b>16. Celerity blur:</b> Agree, it's distracting. And really 2008 in terms of "effect" it achieves. I find myself playing in alien vision if I have it.
I'd like to add another:
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro--><b>17. Gestating Bug:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Unable to gestate upgrades unless evolving or until player death. This happens mostly as a skulk, upgrading to just one available upgrade, such as carapace, while waiting for another, say celerity, to research -- and when it becomes available, trying to then evolve into the new upgrade, but being unable to and getting that annoying-ass <i>DOINK</i> sound telling me I can't. Grr.
I always get confused when I join other servers and the game has already started with only a few people on each team and no coms etc. It's pretty messy.
Fighting the auto attraction to the wall while remaining silent is terribly frustrating.
One i very much hope changes (either by x amount of time adding to gestating for "re evolving" or returning to the proximity of a hive) because it was made this way as a form to prevent those who were using upgrades in an unintended way: have cara, and then instantly re evolve around a corner with regen and then back again when healed.
<!--coloro:#FFC0CB--><span style="color:#FFC0CB"><!--/coloro-->What about the one where you have, say, celerity and regen but when you get a 3rd hive up and want feign death you can't get it? You hit B, click feign death, it goes into the empty upgrade slot, and when you click Evolve it makes the sound but nothing happens.
No egg, no upgrade, no logic. >:(<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Agreed. Tight, refined movement is at the heart of every good game play experience.
And Natural Selection 2's doesn't feel tight or refined. It does feel like you move through molasses, and this worries me, not just for my own sake, but for the sake of the game's mass appeal. Mass appeal means more game development and more players.
Yes, it could be argued movement physics are a personal preference, but I would argue that there's sweet-spot where things feel responsive and still obey some semblance of reality. Because at the end of the day, it's a game, not a real-world physics simulator. And it is hard to argue this game has reached that sweet spot of control fluidity.
<edit>
Now that I've considered it, even the way weapons are picked up and dropped seem to have a sluggishness as well. I think control in general needs a pass over, and it's not something that should be low on the priority list, not with a first-person shooter.
- Show the alien commander which upgrades are online. Often, an upgrade chamber dies and the commander doesn't notice.
- If damaged, have alien's orange outlines briefly flash red. Clear, intuitive warning to others. Especially newbies.
- When a power socket is heavily damaged, have the room's light occasionally flicker. Hard-to-miss indicator and more atmospheric -- win-win. Maybe progressive: more damage, more it flickers. High damage, intermittent periods of darkness.
- 3rd person camera after you die, a la Team Fortress 2.
- Consider inventory of sorts for aliens, with profiles, so players don't have to pick the same preferred upgrades.
- Alternatively, "remember" which evolutions were last picked, so we can just hit evolve and not have to constantly reselect.
- Additionally, on egg spawn count-down, prompt which evolutions to spawn with.
- More indicative, eye-catching way-point markers on the mini-map. Giant arrow on the border, if it's not on the immediate mini-map, for example.
- Show team's weapon loadout when at the armory, in some fashion. Possibly, number count by each weapon. Not many players even know that you can hit tab and see what weapons the rest of the team has and needs -- it's not intuitive.
- Show the team's life form loadout when in the evolve screen. Again, possibly a number count by each form.
- Re-evaluate player movement and control tightness, as mentioned.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IXgvK.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
+ 1
This is already in AFAIK