Seedings for Tournament?!?!?
Soul_Rider
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">It's a joke right?</div>I was just putting together a seeding system for a tournament that I am planning, not finalised yet.
While discussing with clans, I was shown the seeding list for this weekends upcoming tournament.
Is this a joke or something?
The team seeded 1 have not played in a single Beta tournament. In my tournament, they would be unseeded. How on earth can a team with no ranking points (thats how seeds are worked out) be the number 1 seed?
Based on results from the tournaments, I get a very different list, another lol, Duplex seeded 7th, haha, behind Zenith and HBZ, again, clans with no tournament ranking points.
I don't know who made the seedings, but please explain to me your logic? As a former clan manager and tournament organiser, I'd love to know how you came up with such seedings? What scoring system did you use?
From my experience, this looks like random favoritism choices. How can Archea be anything but the No 1 seeds?
This seeding is completely unprofessional, and reflects badly on the NS2 community. Unless I have missed something major, then feel free to correct me with how such seedings can ever be made in a professional tournament.
I am in shock!
While discussing with clans, I was shown the seeding list for this weekends upcoming tournament.
Is this a joke or something?
The team seeded 1 have not played in a single Beta tournament. In my tournament, they would be unseeded. How on earth can a team with no ranking points (thats how seeds are worked out) be the number 1 seed?
Based on results from the tournaments, I get a very different list, another lol, Duplex seeded 7th, haha, behind Zenith and HBZ, again, clans with no tournament ranking points.
I don't know who made the seedings, but please explain to me your logic? As a former clan manager and tournament organiser, I'd love to know how you came up with such seedings? What scoring system did you use?
From my experience, this looks like random favoritism choices. How can Archea be anything but the No 1 seeds?
This seeding is completely unprofessional, and reflects badly on the NS2 community. Unless I have missed something major, then feel free to correct me with how such seedings can ever be made in a professional tournament.
I am in shock!
Comments
The rankings should be based on previous form in tournaments.
This tournament is very unfair to the European teams and spectators. Biased tournaments for the win :P
But yeah, duplex is still seeded pretty, unfairly low if it was a true seeding.
Yeah, I guess inversion and duplex would be swaped if it was based on previous results. I think they selected teams based on region.
the guy who made this bracket is just an idiot.
Yeah, I guess inversion and duplex would be swaped if it was based on previous results. I think they selected teams based on region.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can kinda understand why inversion are where they are.
Because of the first rounds being regional, and no other NA team except nexzil are possible to really seed(no official results).
However, I have absolutely no idea why exertus are seeded above duplex.
Or any of the other teams with lower number than us, if the numbers really are seedings.
5v12
6v11
7v10
8v9
Would indicate a very definite seeding structure. This is how it is shown in almost any game, although admittedly, sometimes the seed number would be after name, but since there isn't any numbers after the name, we get the thought they are seeded 7th.
As a former tournament organiser, this is how I read that table.
Also, why are the NA matches staggered, and the EU matches played at the same time? Why not make it equal? If the EU teams rounds are played together, so are the NA. Doing differently between NA and EU is bad form. Do you remember the huge split that occurred in NS because of NA favoritism? Whether intentional or not, this tournament is doing the same thing.
Not thinking these kind of points through to their conclusion will lead people to believe there is a bias. If there is a bias, great, but tell everyone up front, rather than letting conspiracy stories grow. If there isn't, then make the tournaments fair for everyone involved, or you will create the conspiracy stories. :)
Doesn't make any sense from a "previous tournament games" point of view.
Which is what actual seedings are made from, at least from my understanding.
Clarification please.
My apologies, that number is an arbitrary identifier for administrative purposes, nothing more.
That's a bit uncalled for.
Now that the seedings have been explained, they seem fair to me. Results from the last tournament isn't the only relevant metric.
That completely resolves this entire argument tbh.
People thought they were ranks.
Ah, cool. Yeah the bracket actually does make sense by region now that I look at it. It will make a lot of the games leading up to it easier as there shouldn't be a whole lot of server switching!
Now that the seedings have been explained, they seem fair to me. Results from the last tournament isn't the only relevant metric.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Results from all previous tournaments where the teams have signed up, are relevant, nothing else is.
Also note that the made-up teams for wasabi cup wouldn't affect seedings of another team.
Using my system, and including all teams from the competitions so far (including the teams made up for just one tournament), the seedings stand as follows:
Archaea
Duplex
Exertus
Nexzil
PokeMasters
Team Wasabi
FinnStack
Hg
EoD
Cyd
Cutting that down to actual teams leaves:
Archaea
Duplex
Exertus
Nexzil
Hg
EoD
Cyd
It should be noted, Nexzil and EoD have only played 1 tournament. Exertus, Cyd and Hg have all played 2, and the remaining teams 3 tournaments.
I am using the 1 year running total system, meaning after 1 year, results are dropped, so only the most recent results count. I am thinking of maybe doing 6 months instead of a year, but either way, all 3 tournaments so far are covered in the time periods.
It is just simple straight forwards adding of points for top 6 finishes in tournaments. Awarding points on a sliding scale -
1st - 26
2nd - 19
3rd - 13
4th - 8
5th - 4
6th - 1
Note - Exertus and Finnstack both got 3rd place in the ENSL cup, as there was no play-off, also there were only 5 teams in that cup, so no 6th place awarded.
As tournaments start to increase in size, I may need to look at restarting from scratch awarding 1-8th place points.
Results used to generate the list:
BBC -
1st - Archaea
2nd - Duplex
3rd - Exertus
4th - Hg
5th - EoD
6th - Cyd
Wasabi -
1st - Archaea
2nd - PokeMasters
3rd - Team Wasabi
4th - Duplex
5th - Hg
6th - Cyd
ENSL
1st - Nexzil
2nd - Archaea
3rd - Exertus
3rd - FinnStack
5th - Duplex
First, the team # means absolutely NOTHING, if the teams has a #1 next to their name that does not in anyway rank them in my mind or on this bracket.
Second, If you were looking at the bracket you would notice that its broken up by region, roughly EU and NA so that the early games can all take place in their respective time zones.
Thirdly, I put teams together that based on previous performance and skill would be good first matchups to move on to the second (additional first round) games.
I have spoken to many of the teams and their captains about the brackets and heard their concerns but no one really seemed to have an issue. I again however regretably read yet another forum post about some whining about Double Elim, or the team brackets are unfair... I'm sorry but come on guys, seriously? I work with all of you, listen to your feedback, argue on your behalf and everytime have mud thrown in my face. Grow up.... If your captain is mis-representing your clans opinion on certain subjects than take it up with them internally, not on the forums in the public like this. Show up to the teams meeting or email/skype/txt/steam me, I would be happy to explain or talk about things....
Oh but since I love drama, this one is for you.
"Thirdly, I put teams together that based on previous performance" No, you did not. Statistics shows us something completely different.
First, the team # means absolutely NOTHING, if the teams has a #1 next to their name that does not in anyway rank them in my mind or on this bracket.
Second, If you were looking at the bracket you would notice that its broken up by region, roughly EU and NA so that the early games can all take place in their respective time zones.
Thirdly, I put teams together that based on previous performance and skill would be good first matchups to move on to the second (additional first round) games.
I have spoken to many of the teams and their captains about the brackets and heard their concerns but no one really seemed to have an issue. I again however regretably read yet another forum post about some whining about Double Elim, or the team brackets are unfair... I'm sorry but come on guys, seriously? I work with all of you, listen to your feedback, argue on your behalf and everytime have mud thrown in my face. Grow up.... If your captain is mis-representing your clans opinion on certain subjects than take it up with them internally, not on the forums in the public like this. Show up to the teams meeting or email/skype/txt/steam me, I would be happy to explain or talk about things....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny thing is, when the brackets came out. I e-mailed Hugh to clarify the same thing Soul_Rider is now presenting for you.
Never got any reply, which kinda bummed us. Now don't come blame us for whats going on here.
It is simply a result of the community communicating. And a matter of fair practice for these events.
I will agree that people are throwing too much mud around, which is not cool.
I was at the team meeting, and I read the rules. The rules say "The organiser will at their sole discretion determine the seed ranking of all participant teams." which we at that point believed to be made in a fair way, by doing actual seeding of previously playing teams. And secondarily doing the skill guessing you have been using.
Just want these things to feel like they are fairly setup. However, that doesn't seem like the case.
Hence our frustration.
What you say?
What you say?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be wrong, and that is not the point of this discussion.
Also, when making calculations, you might want to consider that Team Wasabi was Exertus ;)
Also, when making calculations, you might want to consider that Team Wasabi was Exertus ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As previously stated, you can't count team wasabi's results into team exertus results.
Even if the players are almost the same. Just like pokemasters can't use their seedings for anything unless they continue the team.
It doesn't really matter how even we play, or who beats who most often.
It should be based on statistics from officals.
It wouldn't have made any sense if you would feel disrespected in our situation, as the statistics clearly show what is right and what is wrong.
Coin-tosses and guesswork only lead to frustration.
I can only go by names of teams playing in tournaments.. If you wish to spoof yourselves out of points..... ;)
Can you confirm that Team Wasabi, was only Exertus players? If you were just playing under an alias for ###### and giggles then I can change things around, obviously Nexzil and Inversion playing together as PokeMasters won't receive ranking points for their respective teams...
@Wasabi
LoL, I guess you didn't read the whole thread :P
We sorted out the issues, and moved on.... at least I thought we had :)
I'd recommend leaving numbers next to names out, as it can cause mis-understandings, unless they are seedings :)
Still no-one has answered my other concern. Why do NA teams get staggered matches, so all games can be viewed by all spectators, but the Euro's have to play off at the same times?
I can watch all 4 games from NA, but must choose which of the EU games I watch, that's a little unfair don't you think? Why can't I watch all the games, the timings certainly allow it in this tournament.