Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited October 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1990447:date=Oct 12 2012, 11:13 PM:name=Zomb3h)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zomb3h @ Oct 12 2012, 11:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990447"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am glad they nailed/improved the Marine movement to be more responsive.
<b>As for Skulk bite, it seems like a perfect balance now. It does not fully guarantee a skulk to win a CQC battle to a greater extent as it did 2-3 builds ago.</b>
[...]
Good progress.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand the logic behind long range combat being marine dominated
<i>but I dont</i> understand the logic behind short range combat <i>not</i> being alien dominated.
I'm an adequate player; and I play as both teams quite an equal amount, and I have noticed that playing marines is significantly easier since I can dodge most attacks this patch, and landing bites seems piss hard on the alien side. I'm dominating skulks as a marine. When one main unit is harder to play as and less effective then the other: I <i>dont</i> consider this progress.
Bite feels so much better now. Coupled with the better walljump i actually find skulk entertaining to play again. Now to fix the collisions that cause everyone to skate on skulks and then fly all over the place because of the knockback.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and I have noticed that playing marines is significantly easier since I can dodge most attacks this patch, and landing bites seems piss hard on the alien side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this. t1 marine vs t1 skulks is a joke right now. Game after game today skulks were getting stomped (and constantly outmaneuvered), with some marines going 10 - 15 kills before they got their first death. It was a bit marine biased before, but the increased marine movement, improving fps and smaller skulk bite has made early marines simply too OP.
In saying that, I think the problem isn't primarily the bite cone, but a mix of the large model, slow sluggish movement and very low health.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My ultimate point is I think the balance issues should be dealt with in other ways, not just making the bite radius really easy so newbs have an easy time holding down mouse1 ftw.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I actually would argue that we need to higher the skill bottom not by making bites easier to land per se, just making the skulk model smaller so that skulk play is a little more forgiving for newer players, would already make a world of difference. (While not affecting marines who can properly aim)
I guess I should've made the title not just about the skulk bite, since it REALLY is about the T1 skulk as a whole.
Smaller slightly quicker skulks would also be a reasonable change to the problem like ns1. ie. marines have their skill cap raised so they need to aim better. THAT SAID, there is clearly a problem in this current build that base marines just dominate skulks at the moment. As a marine I feel like I am going around abusing slow piggies that can't fight back unless I go into a small room with 4 of them. As an alien I just hope whatever marine I am about to bite is terrible or shooting at something else.
Also, for all those people talking about "skill-caps" you are being completely nonsensical. While making bite more difficult does make skulking have a higher skill cap it also makes being a marine much easier. Marines can dodge more easily and have more time to unload bullets, this is especially true with the jump buff to marines. IE. it's a mere balance change, the games skill cap is left untouched and aliens get crapped on. If you want to make both skills caps higher that is one thing, but just making aliens harder is ridiculous.
The marine movement if kinda weird, you can instantly change strafing direction and be going at full speed, that wasn't the way it was in gldsrc. I feel like hit-reg is a bit better this patch, at least the few games I played on marines the skulks seemed to die quicker.
Personally, I think the way it should work is a marine SHOULD be screwed if a Skulk gets up close. Sure, it shouldn't be gauranteed, but a good marine should have to use their range to their advantage. I think we are so close to getting it right, all we need is to slightly change the skulk bite. Range should be a little wider, and not AS focused on precision. Remember, we are moving quite fast... I liked the idea of the range being a cone, you can attack a little farther away if you are more precise, but it is still possible to bite a jumping marine up close. Skulk movement feels a LOT better with the new walljumping though, great job on that UWE :)
<!--quoteo(post=1990289:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:56 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 06:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->LOL at the amount of people thinking every new player is going to be a retard. They do not need to be handheld... NS2 is far simpler than NS1, their is enough hand holding already in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The intense hostility to any low skill players is a big factor why this game is going to stay niche after release. The issue isn't whether players are "retarded" it is whether they find the game fun or not. "Missing" a marine who is 2 inches away from you because he is in the right 1/3 of your mouth instead of the center 1/3 is not fun, it doesn't feel justified and generates a ton of frustration. Why is a player going to bother to learn how to play better if the game isn't fun in the first place? Game skill should be accessible <b>and</b> scale high, not just beat the crap out of new players.
Right now the game for new players is essentially: die a lot as skulk. Try gorge, die. Die for 10 more minutes as skulk. Try fade, die. Spend the rest of the round dying as skulk. This is exacerbated by the slow p. res which doesn't allow experimentation. The basic combat isn't fun for newbies therefore isn't going to be popular and isn't going to have a competitive scene.
<!--quoteo(post=1990547:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:44 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 12 2012, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The marine movement if kinda weird, you can instantly change strafing direction and be going at full speed, that wasn't the way it was in gldsrc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They didn't do anything to change the underlying reason why movement felt so bad. They just cranked acceleration and friction <b>WAY</b> up. Responsiveness increased, but the physics of it is in the gutter.
The really odd thing to me is people keep talking about how this change makes the game more skillful. Increasing the skill it takes to play skulk decreases the skill it takes to play marine. The net skill change is at best 0, it merely makes one side stronger.
It should be about increasing the skill ceiling without lowering the skill floor, this change does both, so it's definitely a buff to marines once again. .
I play skulk almost exclusivly and i must say i have noticed the need to be a bit more accurate but you get used to it pretty fast (plus its more rewarding when you get a good kill streak going). Never did dabble much with trying to get max speed to close the gap as im hardly on the ground. I do find the current skulk very fun to play and hope this is where UWE keeps it or close to it.
regardless of the state of alien winrate, the skulk bite is a fine gameplay change. I am not arguing that aliens are suffering a low winrate, but changing the skulk bite back to the insane width it was before is completely silly, and leaves no concepts to master (average skulk will perform the same as someone is skilled).
argue outside the realm of winrates - just because something gets nerfed on an already underperforming side does <i>not</i> mean that it should be reverted. otherwise it's obviously just a knee-jerk reaction to patch notes.
think about it this way: if lerk spikes did 500 damage but aliens still barely won 20% of the games. just because aliens are performing horribly doesn't mean that lerk spikes still don't need to be addressed.
I play mostly alien and as every is aware most of the time as alien you are a skulk ,, skulk bite change was needed and it isn't hard to land a bite even with the change you wouldn't aspect a marine to aim 1/3 of the screen away from you and still be able to shoot you , the problem is this is a stright neft for aliens as at the same time as doing this you increased the marine movement this is what makes it hard to take as a skulk.
I agree also that skluks should be punnished for running straight at marines however you also have to remember we are playing a corrider shooter here and the marines can very effectivly lock out an area from aliens because of the lay out of the maps , also I have noticed a recent buff in map design as well for marines adding corridors and deleting vents making aliens attack from predictable locations more and more (not true of every map).
Main problem is that in a average game I will skulk until fade 50 pres unless comm goes early spores in which case I will go lerk, at this point I have no problem with balance as the lerk dies fast to marines if they are gd eough to hit it and fades with the adren changes are far more balanced and I never take feign Death with my fade anymore as you don't have enough energy to get out of harms way afterwards anyway making fades more balanced and killing them rewarding again. Problem is that 1 unlucky death is game over for you unless your team mates can keep their higher lifeforms. You don't see an alien skulk running over to hes recently dead fade friend and warping his cold dead corpse arond himself and calling himself a fade so why should marines be able to pick up weapons ? without any way of stopping them execpt ofc killing them again I think this might be a gd option make bio bomb destory dropped weapons seems fair why should they get to keep all their stuff :P
The welder is currently a better melee weapon than skulk bite.
As much as the game shouldn't be dumbed down and unskilled players rewarded with kills they don't deserve, the current bite is a massive overcompensation. There are definitely times when it should have landed bites and it didn't. I'm all for making the game more difficult, but current bite is waaaay too pedantic on the accuracy of aiming. I'm not suggesting that skulks should be able to hop around like a madman and not have to aim at people and still land accidental bites. But this is just ridiculous. Too many times it feels like a bite should have registered and it doesn't. I'm not talking bout a marine being in the corner of your screen and too far away to reach - I'm talking about sandwiched right up against the marine and looking right at him.
I'm all for making the game more difficult - but every change effects balance. This hasn't made anything more difficult, it's just made it way more easy for marines by making skulks unreasonably fiddly and annoying to play with. Reverting back to the old bite may seem a bit dumbed down, but perhaps try and nerf it only a little bit from what it was before? A skulk should be able to sneak up behind a marine and be able to take him down (unless the marine is very good) - instead, the skulk will most likely miss the bite, and die because it won't let them land a hit even when it looks like it should register.
I think the skulk needs more work to be honest. I'm all for having a higer skill cap, but dont make it hard to pick up or frustrating, it will drive away new players and lead to heavy marine stacking. I know this is just anecdotal evidence but i let my friend have a go as aliens and he enjoyed some of the other classes but didnt understand how a screen full of teeth failed to bite the knees right in front of him, he promptly called skulks broken and changed to marines.
If we lose the new players we are expecting on the 31st due to the base infantry unit of aliens being too hard to get kills with the game will stagnate pretty fast. I for one would love this game to knock out COD and become a great competitive esport game.
I also think that a well played alien (ambushing etc. not running straight at a marine head on) should always beat a basic marine 1 on 1 regardless of armour or gun level. 2 marines vs 1 skulk should swing much more towards marine favour.
I want to be more afraid when im by myself as a marine, like the marines in the Alien movies. Not oh whatever just a skulk lol where is my welder and jump key.
Would love to see smaller models and focus come back. that might fix my gripes. I loved the ole camo focus skulks of ns1.
<!--quoteo(post=1990789:date=Oct 13 2012, 09:15 PM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Oct 13 2012, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990789"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't see an alien skulk running over to hes recently dead fade friend and warping his cold dead corpse arond himself and calling himself a fade so why should marines be able to pick up weapons ? without any way of stopping them execpt ofc killing them again I think this might be a gd option make bio bomb destory dropped weapons seems fair why should they get to keep all their stuff :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this completely, from a realism point of view it makes sense that they can pick them up. Maybe you can say the materials they are made out of only react to the dna of the purchaser and disintegrate with un authorised use. Or even better compensate the aliens, make it so that if you die as an alien (other than skulk) the resources you spent on that life form are divided among the team evenly. If thats too strong maybe make it just if you die on infestation (like you are being absorbed back to the hive) or maybe only half the resource points are divided among your team.
At the moment it seems much easier for marines to hold on to their good guns than it is for aliens to hold onto their good lifeforms.
Also with skulks and marines. It is very hard to push into some rooms as skulks if there are no side passages or vents, we cant always wait gor them to come trhough the door either to ambush them because they can sit there with GL and shoot around corners etc.
Maybe give an alien a similar ability or make the gorge bile bomb blind slightly?
Also bring back web. Or make hydras sap fuel from jetpacks :P
Do not allow marines to jump while reloading or shooting would help a bit. Its also more realistic. (nah its serious, I can also knit a sweater or eat an t-bone steak while jumping).
i find the bite range a bit strange when marines are moving away from me almost as if its being taken advantage of from interp? i dunno i dont mind the bite change but the height seems a bit too low as in vertical width i jump ontop of marines alot and bite down and nothing...
<!--quoteo(post=1990833:date=Oct 13 2012, 10:43 PM:name=Davidhen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davidhen @ Oct 13 2012, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we lose the new players we are expecting on the 31st due to the base infantry unit of aliens being too hard to get kills with the game will stagnate pretty fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines are already stacked heavily on the Aus servers, i ask why and people seem to say aliens are frustrating and unfun, or it doesnt feel like the team flows well.
i'm fine with bite, what really gets on my baps is sliding around and under marines because of the collision boxes. I want to come to a dead stop when i hit a marine, not slide around him like a greasy ###### in an orgy.
<!--quoteo(post=1990854:date=Oct 13 2012, 10:02 AM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Oct 13 2012, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do not allow marines to jump while reloading or shooting would help a bit. Its also more realistic. (nah its serious, I can also knit a sweater or eat an t-bone steak while jumping).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a bad idea.
In my own opinion, the problem isn't the bite change. The problem is the marines that are jumping in 360 degree circles. Perhaps limit the midair directional changes that a marine can do. Can anyone here jump and do midair serpentine courses? Backwards? While reloading?
There is clearly an issue with the skulk/marine combat mechanic or else people wouldn't be complaining so passionately.
Right now its so frustrating to be a skulk again .... will only play rines in the forseable future .. its just no fun dieing all the time and once u get to fade etc being so vulnerable to shotguns etc to lose all that res in one shot .... aliens are no fun ...
[HEI] SpadeJoin Date: 2012-04-28Member: 151223Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2012
The skulk bite itself is good now i think, <u>BUUUUUUUT</u> the issue is more a <b>collision problem</b> and a <b>momentum weirdness</b> (ie, the marines flying 10 meters away when bite...) of the marines... Even the hitbox of the marine feels strange now for every lifeforms....
Anything that makes the game harder is better in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! An excellent course of thought. Let us further half the hit cone and range of bite because its far too easy to use atm (takes like no skill at all). Because remember, we want to punish all those players who dont have hours of their lives to spend grinding the 'skill' (read: reflex) of twitch aim before they're allowed to be effective and have fun. Instead it is best to heap the rewards of fun and success on all the players who spend a significant portion of their lives grinding and perfecting a reflex that any simple aimbot program can be considerably better at (without any comparable effort on the part of it or it's creator).
On a cheerier note:
<!--quoteo(post=1990179:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:05 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 12 2012, 06:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, collision! It's pretty hard for this aspect of the game to be enjoyable if aliens can just continue sliding under marine's feet, the collision boxes in this game are terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, this, this, this. The fact that collision has been total ###### from day one and no one has even acknowledged it as a problem makes me lose all hope for this game. Every time I fly through a moving marine or watch a skulk thats flying straight at me phase right through I have the urge to say something very very naughty and uninstall the game. Why do the devs not realize that you need a very solid collision system if you want good, consistent melee oriented combat instead of a jump spamming, chaotic cluster###### is completely beyond me. I cannot possibly describe how much solid collision would improve the alien experience (the marine experience too for that matter).
In general I have not touched aliens for the last several patches and I used to play nothing else during the 180-190 builds. Frankly I have recently being playing much more ns1 than ns2, I would recommend anyone interested to do the same. It is free and it can certainly use more players.
<!--quoteo(post=1990370:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:13 PM:name=statikg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (statikg @ Oct 12 2012, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game currently balances around the different teams having different periods of strength (marines strong vanilla, aliesn strong with leap/fades/onos, then marines strong again with jps and exos). This type of time period strength balancing is actually not a bad thing and almost impossible to remove in an asymmetric game (see sc, sc2).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree strongly with this. It will result in very boring and predictable encounters if you enforce this mechanic. Sure, it is difficult to balance vanilla marines vs vanilla skulks and T1 vs T1 etc. But it is absolutely worth it. Having fair fights in the FPS-part of the game, when the tech-levels are equal. Is much more fun than having predictable biased and unfair encounters all the time. Like the vanilla skulk is right now against vanilla marines. It is just a boring feeling of losing, even if you can mange to survive into T2 and push them back, because the biased balances shifts to your teams favor now.
<!--quoteo(post=1990854:date=Oct 14 2012, 12:32 AM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Oct 14 2012, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do not allow marines to jump while reloading or shooting would help a bit. Its also more realistic. (nah its serious, I can also knit a sweater or eat an t-bone steak while jumping).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> talking about realism in a game with aliens seems legit
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->talking about realism in a game with aliens seems legit<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulk bite is good as is imo. Having to actually aim is an improvement. The answer isnt to nerf marine movement. It is bad enough. If you want to reload while jumping around, so be it. Your speed is reduced to nill and makes you an easier target.
UWE has already said the knock back effect was a little extreme and will be fixed next patch. Bite is fine and marine movement is getting better. The fight you should be fighting for is skulk movement and reduction in model size.
<!--quoteo(post=1991740:date=Oct 15 2012, 02:43 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 15 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk bite is decent but collision is a problem. once thats fixed skulk bites will be ok<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
<b>As for Skulk bite, it seems like a perfect balance now. It does not fully guarantee a skulk to win a CQC battle to a greater extent as it did 2-3 builds ago.</b>
[...]
Good progress.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand the logic behind long range combat being marine dominated
<i>but I dont</i> understand the logic behind short range combat <i>not</i> being alien dominated.
I'm an adequate player; and I play as both teams quite an equal amount, and I have noticed that playing marines is significantly easier since I can dodge most attacks this patch, and landing bites seems piss hard on the alien side. I'm dominating skulks as a marine. When one main unit is harder to play as and less effective then the other: I <i>dont</i> consider this progress.
Pretty much this. t1 marine vs t1 skulks is a joke right now. Game after game today skulks were getting stomped (and constantly outmaneuvered), with some marines going 10 - 15 kills before they got their first death. It was a bit marine biased before, but the increased marine movement, improving fps and smaller skulk bite has made early marines simply too OP.
In saying that, I think the problem isn't primarily the bite cone, but a mix of the large model, slow sluggish movement and very low health.
I actually would argue that we need to higher the skill bottom not by making bites easier to land per se, just making the skulk model smaller so that skulk play is a little more forgiving for newer players, would already make a world of difference. (While not affecting marines who can properly aim)
I guess I should've made the title not just about the skulk bite, since it REALLY is about the T1 skulk as a whole.
Also, for all those people talking about "skill-caps" you are being completely nonsensical. While making bite more difficult does make skulking have a higher skill cap it also makes being a marine much easier. Marines can dodge more easily and have more time to unload bullets, this is especially true with the jump buff to marines. IE. it's a mere balance change, the games skill cap is left untouched and aliens get crapped on. If you want to make both skills caps higher that is one thing, but just making aliens harder is ridiculous.
The intense hostility to any low skill players is a big factor why this game is going to stay niche after release. The issue isn't whether players are "retarded" it is whether they find the game fun or not. "Missing" a marine who is 2 inches away from you because he is in the right 1/3 of your mouth instead of the center 1/3 is not fun, it doesn't feel justified and generates a ton of frustration. Why is a player going to bother to learn how to play better if the game isn't fun in the first place? Game skill should be accessible <b>and</b> scale high, not just beat the crap out of new players.
Right now the game for new players is essentially: die a lot as skulk. Try gorge, die. Die for 10 more minutes as skulk. Try fade, die. Spend the rest of the round dying as skulk. This is exacerbated by the slow p. res which doesn't allow experimentation. The basic combat isn't fun for newbies therefore isn't going to be popular and isn't going to have a competitive scene.
They didn't do anything to change the underlying reason why movement felt so bad. They just cranked acceleration and friction <b>WAY</b> up. Responsiveness increased, but the physics of it is in the gutter.
argue outside the realm of winrates - just because something gets nerfed on an already underperforming side does <i>not</i> mean that it should be reverted. otherwise it's obviously just a knee-jerk reaction to patch notes.
think about it this way: if lerk spikes did 500 damage but aliens still barely won 20% of the games. just because aliens are performing horribly doesn't mean that lerk spikes still don't need to be addressed.
I agree also that skluks should be punnished for running straight at marines however you also have to remember we are playing a corrider shooter here and the marines can very effectivly lock out an area from aliens because of the lay out of the maps , also I have noticed a recent buff in map design as well for marines adding corridors and deleting vents making aliens attack from predictable locations more and more (not true of every map).
Main problem is that in a average game I will skulk until fade 50 pres unless comm goes early spores in which case I will go lerk, at this point I have no problem with balance as the lerk dies fast to marines if they are gd eough to hit it and fades with the adren changes are far more balanced and I never take feign Death with my fade anymore as you don't have enough energy to get out of harms way afterwards anyway making fades more balanced and killing them rewarding again. Problem is that 1 unlucky death is game over for you unless your team mates can keep their higher lifeforms. You don't see an alien skulk running over to hes recently dead fade friend and warping his cold dead corpse arond himself and calling himself a fade so why should marines be able to pick up weapons ? without any way of stopping them execpt ofc killing them again I think this might be a gd option make bio bomb destory dropped weapons seems fair why should they get to keep all their stuff :P
As much as the game shouldn't be dumbed down and unskilled players rewarded with kills they don't deserve, the current bite is a massive overcompensation. There are definitely times when it should have landed bites and it didn't. I'm all for making the game more difficult, but current bite is waaaay too pedantic on the accuracy of aiming. I'm not suggesting that skulks should be able to hop around like a madman and not have to aim at people and still land accidental bites. But this is just ridiculous. Too many times it feels like a bite should have registered and it doesn't. I'm not talking bout a marine being in the corner of your screen and too far away to reach - I'm talking about sandwiched right up against the marine and looking right at him.
I'm all for making the game more difficult - but every change effects balance. This hasn't made anything more difficult, it's just made it way more easy for marines by making skulks unreasonably fiddly and annoying to play with. Reverting back to the old bite may seem a bit dumbed down, but perhaps try and nerf it only a little bit from what it was before? A skulk should be able to sneak up behind a marine and be able to take him down (unless the marine is very good) - instead, the skulk will most likely miss the bite, and die because it won't let them land a hit even when it looks like it should register.
If we lose the new players we are expecting on the 31st due to the base infantry unit of aliens being too hard to get kills with the game will stagnate pretty fast. I for one would love this game to knock out COD and become a great competitive esport game.
I also think that a well played alien (ambushing etc. not running straight at a marine head on) should always beat a basic marine 1 on 1 regardless of armour or gun level. 2 marines vs 1 skulk should swing much more towards marine favour.
I want to be more afraid when im by myself as a marine, like the marines in the Alien movies. Not oh whatever just a skulk lol where is my welder and jump key.
Would love to see smaller models and focus come back. that might fix my gripes. I loved the ole camo focus skulks of ns1.
I agree with this completely, from a realism point of view it makes sense that they can pick them up. Maybe you can say the materials they are made out of only react to the dna of the purchaser and disintegrate with un authorised use. Or even better compensate the aliens, make it so that if you die as an alien (other than skulk) the resources you spent on that life form are divided among the team evenly. If thats too strong maybe make it just if you die on infestation (like you are being absorbed back to the hive) or maybe only half the resource points are divided among your team.
At the moment it seems much easier for marines to hold on to their good guns than it is for aliens to hold onto their good lifeforms.
Also with skulks and marines. It is very hard to push into some rooms as skulks if there are no side passages or vents, we cant always wait gor them to come trhough the door either to ambush them because they can sit there with GL and shoot around corners etc.
Maybe give an alien a similar ability or make the gorge bile bomb blind slightly?
Also bring back web. Or make hydras sap fuel from jetpacks :P
<!--quoteo(post=1990833:date=Oct 13 2012, 10:43 PM:name=Davidhen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davidhen @ Oct 13 2012, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we lose the new players we are expecting on the 31st due to the base infantry unit of aliens being too hard to get kills with the game will stagnate pretty fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines are already stacked heavily on the Aus servers, i ask why and people seem to say aliens are frustrating and unfun, or it doesnt feel like the team flows well.
This is not a bad idea.
In my own opinion, the problem isn't the bite change. The problem is the marines that are jumping in 360 degree circles. Perhaps limit the midair directional changes that a marine can do. Can anyone here jump and do midair serpentine courses? Backwards? While reloading?
There is clearly an issue with the skulk/marine combat mechanic or else people wouldn't be complaining so passionately.
Anything that makes the game harder is better in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! An excellent course of thought. Let us further half the hit cone and range of bite because its far too easy to use atm (takes like no skill at all). Because remember, we want to punish all those players who dont have hours of their lives to spend grinding the 'skill' (read: reflex) of twitch aim before they're allowed to be effective and have fun. Instead it is best to heap the rewards of fun and success on all the players who spend a significant portion of their lives grinding and perfecting a reflex that any simple aimbot program can be considerably better at (without any comparable effort on the part of it or it's creator).
On a cheerier note:
<!--quoteo(post=1990179:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:05 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 12 2012, 06:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, collision! It's pretty hard for this aspect of the game to be enjoyable if aliens can just continue sliding under marine's feet, the collision boxes in this game are terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, this, this, this. The fact that collision has been total ###### from day one and no one has even acknowledged it as a problem makes me lose all hope for this game. Every time I fly through a moving marine or watch a skulk thats flying straight at me phase right through I have the urge to say something very very naughty and uninstall the game. Why do the devs not realize that you need a very solid collision system if you want good, consistent melee oriented combat instead of a jump spamming, chaotic cluster###### is completely beyond me. I cannot possibly describe how much solid collision would improve the alien experience (the marine experience too for that matter).
In general I have not touched aliens for the last several patches and I used to play nothing else during the 180-190 builds. Frankly I have recently being playing much more ns1 than ns2, I would recommend anyone interested to do the same. It is free and it can certainly use more players.
Marines should not be able to strafe as quickly as a skulk.
I feel so slow and cumbersome as a skulk, I don't even care about the bite hit-box it's the mobility.
Marines have too much mobility, skulks do not have enough.
I disagree strongly with this. It will result in very boring and predictable encounters if you enforce this mechanic. Sure, it is difficult to balance vanilla marines vs vanilla skulks and T1 vs T1 etc.
But it is absolutely worth it. Having fair fights in the FPS-part of the game, when the tech-levels are equal. Is much more fun than having predictable biased and unfair encounters all the time. Like the vanilla skulk is right now against vanilla marines. It is just a boring feeling of losing, even if you can mange to survive into T2 and push them back, because the biased balances shifts to your teams favor now.
talking about realism in a game with aliens seems legit
The truth is out there
UWE has already said the knock back effect was a little extreme and will be fixed next patch. Bite is fine and marine movement is getting better. The fight you should be fighting for is skulk movement and reduction in model size.
<!--quoteo(post=1991740:date=Oct 15 2012, 02:43 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 15 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk bite is decent but collision is a problem. once thats fixed skulk bites will be ok<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This also.