NS2 is obsessed with obscuring vision
Jekt
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Drop me a visor commander</div>So obsessed that abilities are created and balanced around putting particle effects in your face.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/V2nK4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bile bomb</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/YnW4D.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bombard</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/NOCU2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Umbra</b> (even worse in B223)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Xz4d6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Jetpack dust</b>, Exo thrusters have the same effect
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ekQg2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bile on Exo</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3YLyJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Ink cloud</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/E32bQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Cyst rupture</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Dzs2s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Spit</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/c57pm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Spores</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ZKqXU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Vortex</b>
Now what happens when you combine these effects into a single frame. You get an even greater cheap mess on your screen to get frustrated about. Or get so immersed that you jump into your monitor, who knows.
Had to cut several other ability screenshots due to the forum limit, including alien first person views for abilities like xenocide, cloak and drifter enzyme. It's a more noticeable issue for the marine side anyhow, especially when abilities like ink cloud and cyst rupture exist solely to get in your face.
Do people actually enjoy this aggressive feedback for vortex, or making trailing spores worthwhile by reducing the transparency, nerfing the exo by increasing susceptibility to these vision impairments, or having abilities exist just to blind marines?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/V2nK4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bile bomb</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/YnW4D.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bombard</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/NOCU2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Umbra</b> (even worse in B223)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Xz4d6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Jetpack dust</b>, Exo thrusters have the same effect
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ekQg2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Bile on Exo</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3YLyJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Ink cloud</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/E32bQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Cyst rupture</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Dzs2s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Spit</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/c57pm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Spores</b>
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ZKqXU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Vortex</b>
Now what happens when you combine these effects into a single frame. You get an even greater cheap mess on your screen to get frustrated about. Or get so immersed that you jump into your monitor, who knows.
Had to cut several other ability screenshots due to the forum limit, including alien first person views for abilities like xenocide, cloak and drifter enzyme. It's a more noticeable issue for the marine side anyhow, especially when abilities like ink cloud and cyst rupture exist solely to get in your face.
Do people actually enjoy this aggressive feedback for vortex, or making trailing spores worthwhile by reducing the transparency, nerfing the exo by increasing susceptibility to these vision impairments, or having abilities exist just to blind marines?
Comments
I guess part of it is that I have this idea where the marines are heavily dependent on their vision to keep their advantage, and the aliens have to take advantage of that to stay hidden.. or something.
I mean, as far as all the smokey effects go, I would imagine it has to make sense that when you're covered in an umbra or spore cloud, it should be hard to see through (and the marine would likely be coughing throughout), and the ink cloud is meant to mask something, I guess. The goo effects feel over the top, though.
Celerity blur I'm indifferent about. A bit of blur to make you feel like you're going super fast is neat, though.
That doesn't mean I agree with you though. Almost all games are centred around the core principal of whoever kills the other guy first, gets shot the least number of times. This works fine for your pedestrian dude-vs-dude shooters, but its obviously not a fair mechanic for something like NS2. How else do you want to emphasise that something is meant to survive by being elusive, rather than being a tank or the first one not to die? Its a solution to a problem that few other games face.
You forgot about low health and ondamage flashing, onos smoke, flamethrower smoke, grenade explosions, 9000m waypoint blocking (the current transparency level doesn't do much at all), and audio/visual spam about IP's and every inconsequential powernode destroyed.
It seems to be an entrenched design pillar that isn't going away however unfortunate. I mean just look at the powernode system - it serves absolutely no meaningful purpose other than visual and audio warfare (lets exclude cheese because that flaw wasn't considered in its design).
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rbjgqdXMI-Q/R9dK9-3IxpI/AAAAAAAAAg4/kF_MCKg01hs/s320/kleenex.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No, but on a serious note and as already stated in this thread; Marines use ranged weapons and rely heavily on their vision. Aliens have to get in close and try to stay out of sight as much as possible. It's asymetric and create two very different kinds of gameplay. On the other hand, it's annoying having your screen cluttered in fights I guess...
<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rbjgqdXMI-Q/R9dK9-3IxpI/AAAAAAAAAg4/kF_MCKg01hs/s320/kleenex.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No, but on a serious note and as already stated in this thread; Marines use ranged weapons and rely heavily on their vision. Aliens have to get in close and try to stay out of sight as much as possible. It's asymetric and create two very different kinds of gameplay. On the other hand, it's annoying having your screen cluttered in fights I guess...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea, but there are clearly better ways of doing so than plopping up big great undiscriminating skill nullifiers. Pushing past limits is what comp gaming is all about.
Visual/audio blocking is shallow and unimaginative.
I always assumed this was a balance thing. spit and bile for example, you get a discernible benefit from landing the hit, and perhaps dodge an extra badly aimed bullet in return.
the option to take that away would lead to an uneven playing field (especially if its on by default).
I know UWE thinks this is "immersive" (which seems to be an euphism for negative abilites, i.e. obscuring vision), but its not. It just makes you frustrated when you die becouse you dont feel that you are in control of your character.
Game should not be about making your opponent visually imparied and killing him/her, its should be about killing him/her with good game sense and positioning, movement mechanics which makes you feel that you are in total control of you character paired with aim.
Visual/audio blocking is shallow and unimaginative.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like what? I haven't heard a good suggestion besides 'waaaaaa'.
Only thing I agree with is that bilebomb should not completely block an exo's view, thats just silly. Perhaps it should just turn off the targeting recitals on targets.
All the others are simply limiting view, and thats fine.
Most of these effects can be considered to bring the marines to the level what aliens suffer constantly in terms of being obscured by something. Only the ink cloud goes both ways.
Also the 'perfect marine' vs the 'perfect skulk' comparison always puts the marine on top. I guess these could be considered also to bring that gap closer.
Maybe it's not the best way to do it, but got any better suggestions? Better movement is on the way.
However, vision obscuring mechanics do not work well with competitive play. As Elodea said, there shouldn't be any abilities that completely nullifies the opponents skill - hinders maybe, and limit what the player can do with that skill - but not completely nullifies. Obscuring vision almost completely does just that. Players should still have a fighting chance. Removing, or nerfing these things would satisfy the competitive scene. It might be at the expense of more casual players who like the pretty effects as it ads to the immersion.
Out of all these examples though, I have a bigger gripe with how much skulks blend into certain environments. The colour scheme for a lot of the maps is so muddy, and it's difficult to distinguish skulks from the background environment (e.g. rocks and certain walls). I was playing mineshaft earlier today and was in cavern covering the side part that leads to crushing. This one skulk must have been in my view for about half a minute before I saw it move ever so slightly. Even though I was looking right at it for ages, and wasn't behind anything, the damn thing was like a chameleon due to the environment he was walking around. This isn't an issue in docking, or even veil, as the colour scheme is such that you can actually see skulks rather than them blend in.
Why?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't mind them, especially bile obscure on exos and gorge spit vision obscure - it makes up for how overpowered exos are and likewise how underpowered gorge spit is (in the sense it's way too hard to hit with, especially without visual feedback in alien vision mode).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's my biggest gripe with it, having the visuals used as a balancing method. I understand how it's been used to balance certain abilities (exo and spores come to mind) - I just consider balancing the game through obnoxiously blocking visuals backwards.
Although I agree with you DopedDog, obviously taking these responses to this thread as a small sample. Plenty of people actually like the effects and removing them would upset the people who enjoy having goo on their grill, for some reason. I'd expect effects like this to be removed in competitive configurations, if the game succeeds to grow a competitive community to begin with.
Nope.
I dont think its a coincidence that the majority of visual distortion effects are from the aliens effecting marines, it allows for the melee heavy team to close the gap.
As for the option to disable those effects, if the team decide to do that they may as well remove the effects altogether... it would be like removing the blinding effect from a flashbang in CS, who<b> wouldnt</b> disable it ?
Yeah I was going to add in a point that vision obscuring effects shouldn't be used as a means of balance (i.e. I like that the vision obscure on the exo makes them a little less powerful, but I'd rather have it balanced out in some other way), but I have a tendancy to waffle on about things too much.
"Oh no bile bomb has blocked my exo's vision! How am i going to get 20 kills in a row within one minute now?!"
"Waaaaaaah!"
"Christ, how am i going to one shotty skulks with these pesky lerk spores in my way!?"
"Waaaaah"
*edit* Sorry if this post comes off harsh, but I'm a die hard alien fan and this last build has annoyed me.
Explosions, Flames every where, even as alien, when a hive is under attack the effects make vision near impossible. Not to mention that all those client effects on the screen in a battle seriously reduce your framerate.
I have no issue with visual effects in the game, except that they are a bit too much...
Explosions for example could be smaller and finish quicker, generally, if all the effects were toned down in magnitude a bit, the framerates in combat and towards end game would remain just that little bit higher. It does make a difference :D
in 224? Please do tell :p
As for the obscuring vision, I have no problem with it and see it as part & parcel of the alien gameplay. Apart from the bile on the exo, most of them are "ignorable", in that they don't stop you from being able to see what you want to see. it's more of a distraction.
Well UWE want to push this as a competitive game so this is a very valid argument. When money is on the line, having so much vision impairment and other 'immersion' effects is not wanted, by ANY competitive player.
Putting it bluntly:
If you want 'immersion' or whatever you wanna call it, go play Doom 3 or Amnesia. Vision impairment and other 'skill ceiling lowering mechanics' have no place in a competitive multiplayer game.
UWE have to decide if they want a good competitive game or a multiplayer Amnesia, I don't believe you can have both. Depending on which one UWE chooses, I and many other competitive players will or will not continue to play this game