I am creating this thread as an "Appropriate Place to discuss the aforementioned mass bannings" throughout the Launch Tournament. What follows is a letter I have written and sent in email format to Charlie in a desperate hope that the rampant problems I've borne witness to through the last two days of 'competitive play' are not officially endorsed and the intended mentality.
Greetings UWE/Flayra,
I am Colt. You might have recently seen me playing in All-In's team for the US Launch Tournament. I have been playing Natural Selection since the halloween release many years ago.
I knew Voogru, played and membered at the NS1 [KKG] servers for years and G4B2S. I played with Landshark, Vansen, and many other 'originals' of the NS world. I have loved this game for many years, publicized it to my social circles, and tried to benefit it passively albeit from a distance for as long as its' been in conception.
I'd like to take this time to explain a couple things about this tournament, and the end-day (Sunday 10/28/2012), what went down.
At 11:30 PM EST on Saturday after Nxzl was 'docked' points, the official stream announcement was that All-In and Inversion would be squaring off on Sunday at 5:00 EST for the final. Lots of arguing happened between Locklear and Wasabi, and the decision was reversed/modified to dock multiple teams, including All-In.
At 2:00 AM EST, an email was sent to Jucci informing us that we had a tie-breaker at 3:00 EST. We had to rush and attempt to emergency contact people after the revision of the rules and decisionmaking. We weren't even able to field the right players, and used two unaffiliated ringers.
This is where it got exciting;
What happened next was interesting, because I'm a newcomer to the competitive scene and it was intriguing to witness, but essentially all three competitive teams (All-In, Nxzl, and Inversion) were astounded by the rough handling and rampant supposed banning (eh?, gorgeous, garfu) of players involved in the tournament, and were in fact debating on whether to boycott the matches altogether, and create a different bracket/tournament for themselves to escape the overlording ongoing in the current tournament. (Quoting inv. and nxzl Leadership and Sponsors).
After much discussion and contention, I spent a good 30 minutes arguing and postulating to them to back down and just play the games as aligned, to not lower themselves to the level of the mismanagers and unreasonable ban-hammers.
Towards the end of the last match in the tournament finals (All-In and Inv. on Veil), upon making two comments regarding factual analyzation that the aliens have won every match in the final due to onos over-resilience, I was informed by Jucci that I had been "Banned", along with the entirety of All-In, and multiple other players.
This is a very, very bad approach to managing a community. Dissent exists. Dissatisfaction, and voicing of opinions in regards to game mechanics is a basic reality of competitive play, as anyone who has played in ANY competitive game will attest. "Competitive" players are a source of great wisdom and knowledge for the development process, and should be embraced and listened to, not berated, 'banned', and threatened due to making statements about the current incarnation of the game. We clearly all love the game and have PURCHASED it. We have poured our time and effort into becoming masterful at it, and spend countless hours practicing and developing the community.
This troubles me because its' going to damage the community, the future competitive scene, and bring great overall harm to the continued success of NS2, which I truly hope does well and proceeds in the future to be a great game and thriving competitive title.
I look forward to your response. -Colt
TL:DR; 'Rofl Hitreg' has become a living joke on all your serious competitive teams, you can't ban everyone from everything for speaking out and having a laugh or an opinion about the game. This will result in a dead community and a low-skill pool of people who don't actually strive to be great at the game or put any time into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1999273:date=Oct 28 2012, 05:09 PM:name={GGs} Chicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ({GGs} Chicken @ Oct 28 2012, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ban this guy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have an ounce of sarcasm in my post, and I absolutely love this game and I have played it since its creation.
I am sincerely concerned if the management of the competitive community so heavily-handed apt to 'ban' players for such minor things and for such absurd concepts as stating an opinion. A "Tournament Rule" that 'There shall be no comments or jokes about anything in this game' is utterly, and completely, lunatic.
Basically, admins have the ability to change any rule at any time without explanation and also the authority to punish any player or team for anything they conclude to be inappropriate.
I restate my STRONG objection to the inclusion of rules stating that 1) Rules can be modified at any time, for any reason, without warning or explanation, and 2) Players and Teams can be banned from current and future tournaments associated with UWE.
These rules fall incredibly short of legitimizing Natural Selection 2's competitive environment, and are nothing more than catch-alls that, by DESIGN, cannot deal fairly or judiciously with any of the numerous issues that might crop up during any given event.
Hugh stated, to me, that this second rule would ONLY be used as a last resort, and that we, as a competitive community, should trust that it would be very unlikely that it would ever be needed.
This is why I object to the rule Hugh. And I still object to it. I hope the rest of the community does so as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1999281:date=Oct 28 2012, 08:12 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Oct 28 2012, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The rules, as stated by Wasabi were "the same as the Logitech (last) tournament."
Basically, admins have the ability to change any rule at any time without explanation and also the authority to punish any player or team for anything they conclude to be inappropriate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not, according to those rules, without announcing the change first in the Captain's Corner chat.
<!--quoteo(post=1999295:date=Oct 28 2012, 09:24 PM:name=shader)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shader @ Oct 28 2012, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK, threads were merged.
That google pdf does not open for me. It says it has opened the file but it is just blank. Can someone quote the relevant section?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
***I think this is about the same as that rules
The Guru NS2 Beta Tournament, draft rules and regulations
a. The tournament organiser, Unknown Worlds (the ‘organiser’), is responsible for and has total authority over all tournament operations b. The organiser will select a group of tournament administrators (‘admins’) to whom they will delegate said total authority c. Admins and the organiser may in exceptional circumstances make changes to all rules set forth below at any time without warning or explanation if such a change is necessary for the good-order and timely progress of the tournament. d. In the unlikely event of a change per 1c an announcement of that change shall be made in the group chat (see 10a).
2. Format
a. The tournament will be decided by a ‘double elimination’ bracket for twelve teams (the ‘participants’) b. Each ‘round,’ except the final round, will be played in a ‘best of three’ format. That is, the first team to win two ‘games’ advances. The Guru NS2 Beta Tournament, draft rules and regulations
c. The final round will be played in a ‘best of five’ format. That is, the first team to win three games advances. d. If the team from the lower bracket of the double elimination wins the final round, a further final round shall be played, again in the ‘best of five’ format.
3. Miscellaneous Gameplay
a. In the ready room at the start of each match, an admin will flip a coin. The team winning the coin toss may choose which team they wish to start with. b. If a team encounters a serious problem such as a player drop within the first thirty seconds of a game, they may call ‘Not Live’ or ‘NL’ via text chat. c. When rule 3b is invoked, the game will be reset after the team has had a reasonable amount of time to rectify the causal problem. d. Once a game has begun, no player on any team may enter the Ready Room until the game has concluded, except in the cases covered by 4. e. A game is termed ‘live’ after the countdown timer is expended.
4. Substitution
a. A tournament team may consistent of any number of six or more players. b. The six players that start a match must play all games in that match, except in the case of rule 4e. c. If a team suffers a player drop during a game, they may not substitute a new player replace the dropped player, except in the case of rule 3b. d. A dropped player may rejoin the game in progress. e. At the conclusion of a game in which a player has dropped, a team may introduce a substitute player for the remainder of the match. f. Teams may substitute any number of players between matches.
5. Seeding
a. The number of participant teams (12) necessitates four teams missing the first round; these four teams will be the four highest seeded teams. b. The organiser will at their sole discretion determine the seed ranking of all participant teams. c. Seed ranking will determine placement of participants in brackets. d. In the interest of minimising the distance and therefore ping between teams, the organiser may at their sole discretion override seeding to place teams in the bracket in such a manner as to lower pings.
6. Maps
a. The maps to be played in the tournament will be Summit, Docking, Tram and Veil. Each map will be played as follows: i. Round 1: Veil ii. Round 2: Summit iii. Round 3: Tram iv. Semi-Final: Veil v. Final and double-elimination Final (if applicable): See rule 6b. b. The final and double-elimination Final (if applicable) will be played on a map cycle, with the map cycling every two games. The order of cycling shall be as follows: i. Tram ii. Veil iii. Summit
7. Servers
a. Each and every game will be played on official servers approved by the organiser (the ‘servers’). b. All reasonable efforts will be made to mitigate the effects of a ‘high-ping-differential’ on participants. c. In certain high-ping-differential cases, including but not limited to EU / US matches, servers may be ‘cycled’ each game, with the server at all times chosen to provide the team playing on the marine side with the more favourable ping. d. Rule 7c shall not apply in the final and double elimination final (if applicable). e. In the final and double elimination final, if there is a high-ping-differential, the server may be cycled every two games, with the server chosen to provide the team playing on the marine side with the more favourable ping for the first game.
8. Timing
a. See ‘attachment A’ for timing details of all upper bracket rounds to matches b. Matches not referenced in attachment A will begin in general at 0800PDT Saturday Oct 13 at times agreed appropriate by teams in discussion with admins and the organiser. c. Match I will start at 1155PDT Saturday Oct 13, followed by J, K, L, and if necessary a double elimination final. d. Lower bracket matches will be played concurrently with the matches in 8c.
9. Logistics
a. Participants must be in the Ready Room ready to play at least fifteen minutes before their first scheduled match of the day. b. Participants will receive a minimum five minute break between each game. These five minutes include server change time. c. Participants may request a five minute break extension, to ten minutes, at any time. Participants may not request an unreasonable and unusual number of extensions. d. Participants will receive a minimum fifteen minute break between each match. Where servers allow, participants must move into the ready room of the next match server before their fifteen minute break begins. e. Participants must make all reasonable efforts to move from one match server to another in the shortest possible time.
10. Communications
a. All participant team captains (‘captains’) will be invited to tournament-specific Steam group, the ‘group.’ b. All captains must remain in the steam group text chat of the group at least one hour before their first scheduled match, and throughout all their matches. c. All admins and an organiser representative must remain in group chat at all times throughout the tournament. d. The organiser and admins will only communicate with team captains e. Only team captains may use text chat once a game is live. f. All players may engage in good-natured heckling, banter, sledging and other such communication via text chat until the game is live. g. Under no circumstances may the communications referenced in rule 10f be vulgar, sexual, expletive, racist, unsportsmanlike, or otherwise inappropriate in context of an audience of all ages and sensibilities.
11. Game modifications sportsmanship
a. No member of any participant team may use any ‘mod’ of any kind, to NS2 lua script or otherwise, excepting rule 11d. b. No member of any participant team may cheat. c. No member of any participant team may engage in un-sportsmanlike behaviour of any kind at any time. d. Players may use modified crosshairs.
12. Prizes
a. The organiser does not guarantee the availability, delivery, timeliness or good-order of prizes. b. The winning participant team will be awarded prizes for six persons only. c. The composition and nature of the prize pool will be communicated before tournament start. d. Prizes will be distributed to mailing addresses to be provided by the winning participant team at the conclusion of the tournament.
13. Permitted Strategies
a. Where consistent with rule 11c and 11b and excepting rule 13b, teams may use any strategy and all tactics available to them to win. b. No team may engage in drifter / mac spam.
14. Rule enforcement
a. Any violation of or failure to comply with any tournament rule or directive of organiser or admin at any time by any participant team or player therein may in the most extreme cases result in the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future event to which Unknown Worlds is party.
<b>1. Authority and responsibilities</b> ... <i>c. Admins and the organiser may in exceptional circumstances make changes to all rules set forth below at any time without warning or explanation if such a change is necessary for the good-order and timely progress of the tournament. <u>d. In the unlikely event of a change per 1c an announcement of that change shall be made in the group chat (see 10a).</u></i>
<!--quoteo(post=1999295:date=Oct 28 2012, 08:24 PM:name=shader)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shader @ Oct 28 2012, 08:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999295"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK, threads were merged.
That google pdf does not open for me. It says it has opened the file but it is just blank. Can someone quote the relevant section?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
b. No member of any participant team may cheat. <b>Did this need to be a rule?</b> c. No member of any participant team may engage in un-sportsmanlike behaviour of any kind at any time. <b>This is an arbitrary rule, which leads to situations like what happened today.</b>
c. In Build 224 there are likely to be bugs capable of materially affecting gameplay outcomes and influencing gameplay in ways that are obvious to any reasonable player as being inappropriate. Teams may not exploit such bugs. The most serious specific bugs will be added to this rule.
<b>No one (at least in the US) was made aware that using shift eggs were an exploit. In fact we went and looked at the videos over the weekend and at least six teams used shift eggs in equal or greater amounts than Nexzil did, some when they didn't even have the res to use them at the time.</b>
a. Any violation of or failure to comply with any tournament rule or directive of organiser or admin at any time by any participant team or player therein may in the most extreme cases result in the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future event to which Unknown Worlds is party.
Honestly it sounds like if UWE wants to have tournaments at the level of an esport, they need to get a staff with training to officiate these events. There's going to be a level of subjectivity in any ruling of unsportsmanlike conduct, which is fine. However, if there's not some solid credibility behind each call, especially when the conduct was broadcast live in front of thousands, UWE and the tournament organizers will eventually make huge asses out of themselves - whether they make the wrong call OR the right one.
<!--quoteo(post=1999329:date=Oct 28 2012, 09:55 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Oct 28 2012, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honestly it sounds like if UWE wants to have tournaments at the level of an esport, they need to get a staff with training to officiate these events. There's going to be a level of subjectivity in any ruling of unsportsmanlike conduct, which is fine. However, if there's not some solid credibility behind each call, especially when the conduct was broadcast live in front of thousands, UWE and the tournament organizers will eventually make huge asses out of themselves - whether they make the wrong call OR the right one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was the point I made to Hugh, and it was summarily dismissed.
<!--quoteo(post=1999330:date=Oct 28 2012, 09:01 PM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Oct 28 2012, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was the point I made to Hugh, and it was summarily dismissed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, you can't officiate tournaments with prizes without SOME form of common understanding between the judges. It doesn't matter if you're hosting a college tournament with Smash Bros, running a national tournament of Magic: the Gathering, or whatever the level is. Players and judges NEED to understand what is acceptable behavior. I wasn't there, but if the comments are as tame as I've heard, then this call was stupid, and the person who made the call needs to realize that.
I'm totally OK if the tournament hosts/devs do not want players badmouthing the game during a live broadcast. If a player cannot express frustration, they need to be (for lack of a better word) coached on how to do so. They cannot simply be banned on the first mistake.
<!--quoteo(post=1999318:date=Oct 28 2012, 08:46 PM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Oct 28 2012, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even if it was, it hardly justifies the reaction by the admins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it would technically explain Colt's ban.
Seems disproportionate, though - "may in the most extreme cases result in the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future event to which Unknown Worlds is party"
Pre-empting the captains gg by a few milliseconds plus a mild statement of fact is a "most extreme case"?
<!--quoteo(post=1999336:date=Oct 28 2012, 06:10 PM:name=shader)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shader @ Oct 28 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did "rofl hitreg" come before a captains gg?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said 'rofl hitreg'.
Or anything with personal sentiment, negativity, cussing, or anything else. I told .inv they played really well, that the matches were fun, and that the onos is a little over-resilient, and made the calm observation that all 5 matches were in fact alien wins due to the over-resilience OF onos. Which is abundantly clear if you watch the streams/matches.
It wasn't even any kind of personal slights, or slights towards the game. (Unless you call stating an arbitrary reality 'slighting')
First of all, for those of us who missed the drama, who got banned (names) and why?
On a side note:
The rule that "no one talks in game chat except team captains" rule has been in place since the guru, and every team has had hold of the rules since then.
If people are so immature/idiotic as to not follow a very simple rule, punishment is due.
That's the one side, it sounds like they want a proffessional atmosphere. Fair enough. But did anyone else see the professional stream? Lol... Debatable.
You're both right. And the real problem as that these rules are nothing more than catch-alls.
You can't officiate anything with a catch-all. It inherently lends itself to misuse. Rather than sitting down and hashing out a reasonable or even rational set of rules and 'punishments' for tournaments, Hugh insisted that both of these catch-all rules stay in, and that nothing else was needed to handle officiating matches.
Wish more people would have spoken up about it at the Captains meeting for the Guru tournament. I know I wouldn't shut up about it.
Round 1 of Arc vs Duplex was not streamed, it ended after maybe 20 minutes. Multiple non-captain players did friendly banter in chat during the match, GISP the admin present didn't have a problem with it. And the round concluded.
Round 2 began similarly without being streamed and the admin GISP present. Midway through the match, Hugh and Wasabi joined to stream. This fact was unknown to myself as I was playing the game at the time. After getting upset at the hit registration issues present in the game I said "rofl hitreg" after dying in frustration.
The round ended. And I was informed by scrajm from the captain's chat that I had been banned from the tournament and should I want to appeal the ban I should send a convincing email to Hugh as to why I should be unbanned.
I sent that email explaining the situation above as it actually happened and his response was that I had no comprehension or understanding of why what I did was "unacceptable."
A lot of the bans that were attempted were for things people were saying <u>outside of the game and even outside of the official stream</u> (blind's stream). And even then, banning someone (from <i>tournaments</i>, not just from a twitch chat) for something they said in a chat on the stream is extremely questionable. And there was only one instance of something being said in-game during the official stream (that was Colt's "onos resilience" comment). Most of the banter was not even shown or visible on the stream. And all it was, was merely that, banter. At no point was <i>anyone </i>saying anything that could be considered unsportsmanlike or offensive in any way.
What is this, 1984?
In the very least I would say it borders on bullying. And it's not a recent occurrence.
With that context in mind, the banning for anything said in chat short of a paragraph-long rant of insults is just disporportionate. Eh? could have said <i>"nice Onos ######, you ######cocks" </i>in chat, and a ban would still have been over the top. At most, a warning that any future misbehavior would result in a ban would have been called for, and this is at the limits of hyperbole.
<!--quoteo(post=1999347:date=Oct 28 2012, 09:17 PM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Oct 28 2012, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're both right. And the real problem as that these rules are nothing more than catch-alls.
You can't officiate anything with a catch-all. It inherently lends itself to misuse. Rather than sitting down and hashing out a reasonable or even rational set of rules and 'punishments' for tournaments, Hugh insisted that both of these catch-all rules stay in, and that nothing else was needed to handle officiating matches.
Wish more people would have spoken up about it at the Captains meeting for the Guru tournament. I know I wouldn't shut up about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing wrong with the catch-alls themselves. Unsportsmanlike conduct is always going to be subjective, but the different degrees AND consequences need to be clear. Saying something to insult the other team or cussing publicly during the match absolutely warrants a ban. But a sarcastic comment in a moment of frustration? A warning should suffice, shouldn't it?
Goodness knows I get a warning for worse than that at work before I'm disciplined. Or at a school. Or a child in a home. Or in THIS forum (we've all seen flames get a warning before a temp ban, which I have no problem with). Hell, Hugh says worse things when he dies during an NS2HD stream.
Comments
Greetings UWE/Flayra,
I am Colt. You might have recently seen me playing in All-In's team for the US Launch Tournament.
I have been playing Natural Selection since the halloween release many years ago.
I knew Voogru, played and membered at the NS1 [KKG] servers for years and G4B2S. I played with Landshark, Vansen, and many other 'originals' of the NS world.
I have loved this game for many years, publicized it to my social circles, and tried to benefit it passively albeit from a distance for as long as its' been in conception.
I'd like to take this time to explain a couple things about this tournament, and the end-day (Sunday 10/28/2012), what went down.
At 11:30 PM EST on Saturday after Nxzl was 'docked' points, the official stream announcement was that All-In and Inversion would be squaring off on Sunday at 5:00 EST for the final. Lots of arguing happened between Locklear and Wasabi, and the decision was reversed/modified to dock multiple teams, including All-In.
At 2:00 AM EST, an email was sent to Jucci informing us that we had a tie-breaker at 3:00 EST. We had to rush and attempt to emergency contact people after the revision of the rules and decisionmaking. We weren't even able to field the right players, and used two unaffiliated ringers.
This is where it got exciting;
What happened next was interesting, because I'm a newcomer to the competitive scene and it was intriguing to witness, but essentially all three competitive teams (All-In, Nxzl, and Inversion) were astounded by the rough handling and rampant supposed banning (eh?, gorgeous, garfu) of players involved in the tournament, and were in fact debating on whether to boycott the matches altogether, and create a different bracket/tournament for themselves to escape the overlording ongoing in the current tournament. (Quoting inv. and nxzl Leadership and Sponsors).
After much discussion and contention, I spent a good 30 minutes arguing and postulating to them to back down and just play the games as aligned, to not lower themselves to the level of the mismanagers and unreasonable ban-hammers.
Towards the end of the last match in the tournament finals (All-In and Inv. on Veil), upon making two comments regarding factual analyzation that the aliens have won every match in the final due to onos over-resilience, I was informed by Jucci that I had been "Banned", along with the entirety of All-In, and multiple other players.
This is a very, very bad approach to managing a community. Dissent exists. Dissatisfaction, and voicing of opinions in regards to game mechanics is a basic reality of competitive play, as anyone who has played in ANY competitive game will attest. "Competitive" players are a source of great wisdom and knowledge for the development process, and should be embraced and listened to, not berated, 'banned', and threatened due to making statements about the current incarnation of the game. We clearly all love the game and have PURCHASED it. We have poured our time and effort into becoming masterful at it, and spend countless hours practicing and developing the community.
This troubles me because its' going to damage the community, the future competitive scene, and bring great overall harm to the continued success of NS2, which I truly hope does well and proceeds in the future to be a great game and thriving competitive title.
I look forward to your response.
-Colt
TL:DR; 'Rofl Hitreg' has become a living joke on all your serious competitive teams, you can't ban everyone from everything for speaking out and having a laugh or an opinion about the game. This will result in a dead community and a low-skill pool of people who don't actually strive to be great at the game or put any time into it.
Ban this guy
I don't have an ounce of sarcasm in my post, and I absolutely love this game and I have played it since its creation.
I am sincerely concerned if the management of the competitive community so heavily-handed apt to 'ban' players for such minor things and for such absurd concepts as stating an opinion. A "Tournament Rule" that 'There shall be no comments or jokes about anything in this game' is utterly, and completely, lunatic.
Here's the rules from the logitech tournament.
<a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B87Ii3HJJ4fSQ1d1Yzc2cjh0eTA/edit?pli=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B87Ii3HJJ4f...0eTA/edit?pli=1</a>
Basically, admins have the ability to change any rule at any time without explanation and also the authority to punish any player or team for anything they conclude to be inappropriate.
These rules fall incredibly short of legitimizing Natural Selection 2's competitive environment, and are nothing more than catch-alls that, by DESIGN, cannot deal fairly or judiciously with any of the numerous issues that might crop up during any given event.
Hugh stated, to me, that this second rule would ONLY be used as a last resort, and that we, as a competitive community, should trust that it would be very unlikely that it would ever be needed.
This is why I object to the rule Hugh. And I still object to it. I hope the rest of the community does so as well.
Here's the rules from the logitech tournament.
<a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B87Ii3HJJ4fSQ1d1Yzc2cjh0eTA/edit?pli=1" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B87Ii3HJJ4f...0eTA/edit?pli=1</a>
Basically, admins have the ability to change any rule at any time without explanation and also the authority to punish any player or team for anything they conclude to be inappropriate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not, according to those rules, without announcing the change first in the Captain's Corner chat.
That google pdf does not open for me. It says it has opened the file but it is just blank. Can someone quote the relevant section?
That google pdf does not open for me. It says it has opened the file but it is just blank. Can someone quote the relevant section?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
***I think this is about the same as that rules
The Guru NS2 Beta Tournament, draft rules and regulations
October 2012
The Guru NS2 Beta Tournament
Rules, regulations, and other tedious but necessary administrative matters.
Contents
1. Authority and responsibilities ................................................................................
....................... 1
2. Format ................................................................................
......................................................... 1
3. Miscellaneous Gameplay ................................................................................
.............................. 2
4. Substitution....................................................................
.............................................................. 2
5. Seeding ................................................................................
........................................................ 2
6. Maps ................................................................................
............................................................ 2
7. Servers ................................................................................
......................................................... 3
8. Timing ................................................................................
.......................................................... 3
9. Logistics.......................................................................
................................................................. 3
10. Communications ................................................................................
....................................... 3
11. Game modifications sportsmanship...................................................................
....................... 4
12. Prizes ................................................................................
........................................................ 4
13. Permitted Strategies ................................................................................
................................. 4
14. Rule enforcement ................................................................................
..................................... 4
1. Authority and responsibilities
a. The tournament organiser, Unknown Worlds (the ‘organiser’), is responsible for and has total authority over all tournament operations
b. The organiser will select a group of tournament administrators (‘admins’) to whom they will delegate said total authority
c. Admins and the organiser may in exceptional circumstances make changes to all rules set forth below at any time without warning or explanation if such a change is necessary for the good-order and timely progress of the tournament.
d. In the unlikely event of a change per 1c an announcement of that change shall be made in the group chat (see 10a).
2. Format
a. The tournament will be decided by a ‘double elimination’ bracket for twelve teams (the ‘participants’)
b. Each ‘round,’ except the final round, will be played in a ‘best of three’ format. That is, the first team to win two ‘games’ advances.
The Guru NS2 Beta Tournament, draft rules and regulations
c. The final round will be played in a ‘best of five’ format. That is, the first team to win three games advances.
d. If the team from the lower bracket of the double elimination wins the final round, a further final round shall be played, again in the ‘best of five’ format.
3. Miscellaneous Gameplay
a. In the ready room at the start of each match, an admin will flip a coin. The team winning the coin toss may choose which team they wish to start with.
b. If a team encounters a serious problem such as a player drop within the first thirty seconds of a game, they may call ‘Not Live’ or ‘NL’ via text chat.
c. When rule 3b is invoked, the game will be reset after the team has had a reasonable amount of time to rectify the causal problem.
d. Once a game has begun, no player on any team may enter the Ready Room until the game has concluded, except in the cases covered by 4.
e. A game is termed ‘live’ after the countdown timer is expended.
4. Substitution
a. A tournament team may consistent of any number of six or more players.
b. The six players that start a match must play all games in that match, except in the case of rule 4e.
c. If a team suffers a player drop during a game, they may not substitute a new player replace the dropped player, except in the case of rule 3b.
d. A dropped player may rejoin the game in progress.
e. At the conclusion of a game in which a player has dropped, a team may introduce a substitute player for the remainder of the match.
f. Teams may substitute any number of players between matches.
5. Seeding
a. The number of participant teams (12) necessitates four teams missing the first round; these four teams will be the four highest seeded teams.
b. The organiser will at their sole discretion determine the seed ranking of all participant teams.
c. Seed ranking will determine placement of participants in brackets.
d. In the interest of minimising the distance and therefore ping between teams, the organiser may at their sole discretion override seeding to place teams in the bracket in such a manner as to lower pings.
6. Maps
a. The maps to be played in the tournament will be Summit, Docking, Tram and Veil. Each map will be played as follows:
i. Round 1: Veil
ii. Round 2: Summit
iii. Round 3: Tram
iv. Semi-Final: Veil
v. Final and double-elimination Final (if applicable): See rule 6b.
b. The final and double-elimination Final (if applicable) will be played on a map cycle, with the map cycling every two games. The order of cycling shall be as follows:
i. Tram
ii. Veil
iii. Summit
7. Servers
a. Each and every game will be played on official servers approved by the organiser (the ‘servers’).
b. All reasonable efforts will be made to mitigate the effects of a ‘high-ping-differential’ on participants.
c. In certain high-ping-differential cases, including but not limited to EU / US matches, servers may be ‘cycled’ each game, with the server at all times chosen to provide the team playing on the marine side with the more favourable ping.
d. Rule 7c shall not apply in the final and double elimination final (if applicable).
e. In the final and double elimination final, if there is a high-ping-differential, the server may be cycled every two games, with the server chosen to provide the team playing on the marine side with the more favourable ping for the first game.
8. Timing
a. See ‘attachment A’ for timing details of all upper bracket rounds to matches
b. Matches not referenced in attachment A will begin in general at 0800PDT Saturday Oct 13 at times agreed appropriate by teams in discussion with admins and the organiser.
c. Match I will start at 1155PDT Saturday Oct 13, followed by J, K, L, and if necessary a double elimination final.
d. Lower bracket matches will be played concurrently with the matches in 8c.
9. Logistics
a. Participants must be in the Ready Room ready to play at least fifteen minutes before their first scheduled match of the day.
b. Participants will receive a minimum five minute break between each game. These five minutes include server change time.
c. Participants may request a five minute break extension, to ten minutes, at any time. Participants may not request an unreasonable and unusual number of extensions.
d. Participants will receive a minimum fifteen minute break between each match. Where servers allow, participants must move into the ready room of the next match server before their fifteen minute break begins.
e. Participants must make all reasonable efforts to move from one match server to another in the shortest possible time.
10. Communications
a. All participant team captains (‘captains’) will be invited to tournament-specific Steam group, the ‘group.’
b. All captains must remain in the steam group text chat of the group at least one hour before their first scheduled match, and throughout all their matches.
c. All admins and an organiser representative must remain in group chat at all times throughout the tournament.
d. The organiser and admins will only communicate with team captains
e. Only team captains may use text chat once a game is live.
f. All players may engage in good-natured heckling, banter, sledging and other such communication via text chat until the game is live.
g. Under no circumstances may the communications referenced in rule 10f be vulgar, sexual, expletive, racist, unsportsmanlike, or otherwise inappropriate in context of an audience of all ages and sensibilities.
11. Game modifications sportsmanship
a. No member of any participant team may use any ‘mod’ of any kind, to NS2 lua script or otherwise, excepting rule 11d.
b. No member of any participant team may cheat.
c. No member of any participant team may engage in un-sportsmanlike behaviour of any kind at any time.
d. Players may use modified crosshairs.
12. Prizes
a. The organiser does not guarantee the availability, delivery, timeliness or good-order of prizes.
b. The winning participant team will be awarded prizes for six persons only.
c. The composition and nature of the prize pool will be communicated before tournament start.
d. Prizes will be distributed to mailing addresses to be provided by the winning participant team at the conclusion of the tournament.
13. Permitted Strategies
a. Where consistent with rule 11c and 11b and excepting rule 13b, teams may use any strategy and all tactics available to them to win.
b. No team may engage in drifter / mac spam.
14. Rule enforcement
a. Any violation of or failure to comply with any tournament rule or directive of organiser or admin at any time by any participant team or player therein may in the most extreme cases result in the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future event to which Unknown Worlds is party.
...
<i>c. Admins and the organiser may in exceptional circumstances make changes to all rules set forth below at any time without warning or explanation if such a change is necessary for the good-order and timely progress of the tournament.
<u>d. In the unlikely event of a change per 1c an announcement of that change shall be made in the group chat (see 10a).</u></i>
Instead it was used and abused just like we said he would.
(not including Wasabi in this, Wasabi has been incredibly reasonable and level headed throughout all of this)
That google pdf does not open for me. It says it has opened the file but it is just blank. Can someone quote the relevant section?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
b. No member of any participant team may cheat. <b>Did this need to be a rule?</b>
c. No member of any participant team may engage in un-sportsmanlike behaviour of any kind at
any time. <b>This is an arbitrary rule, which leads to situations like what happened today.</b>
--------------------------------------------------------
c. In Build 224 there are likely to be bugs capable of materially affecting gameplay outcomes and
influencing gameplay in ways that are obvious to any reasonable player as being inappropriate.
Teams may not exploit such bugs. The most serious specific bugs will be added to this rule.
<b>No one (at least in the US) was made aware that using shift eggs were an exploit. In fact we went and looked at the videos over the weekend and at least six teams used shift eggs in equal or greater amounts than Nexzil did, some when they didn't even have the res to use them at the time.</b>
---------------------------------------------------------
14.
Rule enforcement
a. Any violation of or failure to comply with any tournament rule or directive of organiser or admin
at any time by any participant team or player therein may in the most extreme cases result in
the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from
this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future
event to which Unknown Worlds is party.
This was the point I made to Hugh, and it was summarily dismissed.
The thing is, you can't officiate tournaments with prizes without SOME form of common understanding between the judges. It doesn't matter if you're hosting a college tournament with Smash Bros, running a national tournament of Magic: the Gathering, or whatever the level is. Players and judges NEED to understand what is acceptable behavior. I wasn't there, but if the comments are as tame as I've heard, then this call was stupid, and the person who made the call needs to realize that.
I'm totally OK if the tournament hosts/devs do not want players badmouthing the game during a live broadcast. If a player cannot express frustration, they need to be (for lack of a better word) coached on how to do so. They cannot simply be banned on the first mistake.
Well, it would technically explain Colt's ban.
Seems disproportionate, though - "may in the most extreme cases result in the disqualification and dismissal of that participant team or particular constituent players from this tournament and the banning of that team or particular constituent players from any future event to which Unknown Worlds is party"
Pre-empting the captains gg by a few milliseconds plus a mild statement of fact is a "most extreme case"?
Did "rofl hitreg" come before a captains gg?
I never said 'rofl hitreg'.
Or anything with personal sentiment, negativity, cussing, or anything else. I told .inv they played really well, that the matches were fun, and that the onos is a little over-resilient, and made the calm observation that all 5 matches were in fact alien wins due to the over-resilience OF onos. Which is abundantly clear if you watch the streams/matches.
It wasn't even any kind of personal slights, or slights towards the game. (Unless you call stating an arbitrary reality 'slighting')
On a side note:
The rule that "no one talks in game chat except team captains" rule has been in place since the guru, and every team has had hold of the rules since then.
If people are so immature/idiotic as to not follow a very simple rule, punishment is due.
That's the one side, it sounds like they want a proffessional atmosphere. Fair enough. But did anyone else see the professional stream? Lol... Debatable.
I know, but someone else did and got banned for it, I was told. I was wondering if his case was also maximum penalty for a technical rule breach.
You can't officiate anything with a catch-all. It inherently lends itself to misuse. Rather than sitting down and hashing out a reasonable or even rational set of rules and 'punishments' for tournaments, Hugh insisted that both of these catch-all rules stay in, and that nothing else was needed to handle officiating matches.
Wish more people would have spoken up about it at the Captains meeting for the Guru tournament. I know I wouldn't shut up about it.
Round 1 of Arc vs Duplex was not streamed, it ended after maybe 20 minutes. Multiple non-captain players did friendly banter in chat during the match, GISP the admin present didn't have a problem with it. And the round concluded.
Round 2 began similarly without being streamed and the admin GISP present. Midway through the match, Hugh and Wasabi joined to stream. This fact was unknown to myself as I was playing the game at the time. After getting upset at the hit registration issues present in the game I said "rofl hitreg" after dying in frustration.
The round ended. And I was informed by scrajm from the captain's chat that I had been banned from the tournament and should I want to appeal the ban I should send a convincing email to Hugh as to why I should be unbanned.
I sent that email explaining the situation above as it actually happened and his response was that I had no comprehension or understanding of why what I did was "unacceptable."
This is like soccer where ever foul is a red card.
What is this, 1984?
In the very least I would say it borders on bullying. And it's not a recent occurrence.
You can't officiate anything with a catch-all. It inherently lends itself to misuse. Rather than sitting down and hashing out a reasonable or even rational set of rules and 'punishments' for tournaments, Hugh insisted that both of these catch-all rules stay in, and that nothing else was needed to handle officiating matches.
Wish more people would have spoken up about it at the Captains meeting for the Guru tournament. I know I wouldn't shut up about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing wrong with the catch-alls themselves. Unsportsmanlike conduct is always going to be subjective, but the different degrees AND consequences need to be clear. Saying something to insult the other team or cussing publicly during the match absolutely warrants a ban. But a sarcastic comment in a moment of frustration? A warning should suffice, shouldn't it?
Goodness knows I get a warning for worse than that at work before I'm disciplined. Or at a school. Or a child in a home. Or in THIS forum (we've all seen flames get a warning before a temp ban, which I have no problem with).
Hell, Hugh says worse things when he dies during an NS2HD stream.