THE 2 crucially critical issues right now
weezl
Join Date: 2008-07-04 Member: 64557Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2008-07-04 Member: 64557Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I know not all of you might agree with me here, anyway it's my opinion.
First and foremost, the collision.
There is none! Everything except onos passes right through eachother!
For a game that for the most part relies on melee combat, the criticality of getting this right is self explanatory.
A scientific analysis would be looking at the center of the skulk and how close it comes to the viewpoint (camera) of the marine player, when the skulk passes (goes through) said player. Since those two spots can be very close to eachother in NS2, in order to aim at the skulk the player has do a very fast movement due to the angular velocity.
Humans are not bots. I for example just lose track of the skulk, and have to look/turn around to find him again, and this can repeat, all the while skulk is munching.
I NS1 there was sort of "an invisible wall" in front of you that made fades and skulks unable to come further than a minimal distance to you. This made it 100 times easier to track them accurately in melee range!
As for the onos, he's just clipping through you, which become especially disorienting as EXO, you don't know which way to turn (left/right) to keep the onos in the sights, and sometimes bilebomb on top of this...
I've written a similar topic before:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120353" target="_blank">A critical flaw in NS2 close-combat</a>
Second thing is Gorge bilebomb range!
I've mentioned this countless times! Yet there is almost no discussion about it. The range compared to the <u>function</u> is absolutely RIDICULOUS!
And here's why:
For the vast majority of rooms in NS2, especially tech point rooms, a gorge can stand at the entrance and reach buildings and especially the powernode.
This presents minimal risk and huge flexibility for the gorge. And so this becomes overpowered!
And when it's not alone, some other alien is forcing the marines' attention (onos, fade, couple skulks) this becomes even more deadly as the gorge can stand still and bile freely. When the other lifeforms start retreating, the gorge is already almost retreated - no risk at all.
NS1 was VERY different! Bile range was 1/5! To use bile the gorge had to go far out of the comfort zone, a risk, A TRADEOFF - DESIGN DOC I get tired of repeating that ad infinitum!
<!--quoteo(post=1927684:date=Apr 20 2012, 02:18 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 20 2012, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1927684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
BB was fine on gorge, just don't make it do freakin 500 dmg vs buildings and shoot twice as far as GL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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<!--quoteo(post=1949983:date=Jul 9 2012, 03:51 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Jul 9 2012, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
bilebomb firing farther than Gl is back now that BB returned to gorge...is also stupid.
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<!--quoteo(post=1955534:date=Aug 1 2012, 11:32 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Aug 1 2012, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
In NS1 the BB range was like 5-7 gorge lengths, in NS2 it's like <u>5 TIMES</u> the NS1 range!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1965706:date=Aug 22 2012, 03:45 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Aug 22 2012, 03:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1965706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges were much more fragile in NS1, even with cara!
And they had a reasonable and believable range on bilebomb, contrary to the NS2 version going farther than GL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975956:date=Sep 12 2012, 12:04 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Sep 12 2012, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
wtf bilebomb range farther than GL
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First and foremost, the collision.
There is none! Everything except onos passes right through eachother!
For a game that for the most part relies on melee combat, the criticality of getting this right is self explanatory.
A scientific analysis would be looking at the center of the skulk and how close it comes to the viewpoint (camera) of the marine player, when the skulk passes (goes through) said player. Since those two spots can be very close to eachother in NS2, in order to aim at the skulk the player has do a very fast movement due to the angular velocity.
Humans are not bots. I for example just lose track of the skulk, and have to look/turn around to find him again, and this can repeat, all the while skulk is munching.
I NS1 there was sort of "an invisible wall" in front of you that made fades and skulks unable to come further than a minimal distance to you. This made it 100 times easier to track them accurately in melee range!
As for the onos, he's just clipping through you, which become especially disorienting as EXO, you don't know which way to turn (left/right) to keep the onos in the sights, and sometimes bilebomb on top of this...
I've written a similar topic before:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120353" target="_blank">A critical flaw in NS2 close-combat</a>
Second thing is Gorge bilebomb range!
I've mentioned this countless times! Yet there is almost no discussion about it. The range compared to the <u>function</u> is absolutely RIDICULOUS!
And here's why:
For the vast majority of rooms in NS2, especially tech point rooms, a gorge can stand at the entrance and reach buildings and especially the powernode.
This presents minimal risk and huge flexibility for the gorge. And so this becomes overpowered!
And when it's not alone, some other alien is forcing the marines' attention (onos, fade, couple skulks) this becomes even more deadly as the gorge can stand still and bile freely. When the other lifeforms start retreating, the gorge is already almost retreated - no risk at all.
NS1 was VERY different! Bile range was 1/5! To use bile the gorge had to go far out of the comfort zone, a risk, A TRADEOFF - DESIGN DOC I get tired of repeating that ad infinitum!
<!--quoteo(post=1927684:date=Apr 20 2012, 02:18 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 20 2012, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1927684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
BB was fine on gorge, just don't make it do freakin 500 dmg vs buildings and shoot twice as far as GL!!!!!!!!!!!!
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1949983:date=Jul 9 2012, 03:51 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Jul 9 2012, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
bilebomb firing farther than Gl is back now that BB returned to gorge...is also stupid.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1955534:date=Aug 1 2012, 11:32 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Aug 1 2012, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
In NS1 the BB range was like 5-7 gorge lengths, in NS2 it's like <u>5 TIMES</u> the NS1 range!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1965706:date=Aug 22 2012, 03:45 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Aug 22 2012, 03:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1965706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorges were much more fragile in NS1, even with cara!
And they had a reasonable and believable range on bilebomb, contrary to the NS2 version going farther than GL!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975956:date=Sep 12 2012, 12:04 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Sep 12 2012, 12:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
wtf bilebomb range farther than GL
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I agree with collision, though I'd say hitreg and performance at the moment is quite a bit more important.
but even bile bomb doesn't kill 30-50 res units along with all alien buildings in mere seconds.
I agree with collision, though I'd say hitreg and performance at the moment is quite a bit more important.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2000124:date=Oct 29 2012, 09:24 PM:name=Scubbo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scubbo @ Oct 29 2012, 09:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000124"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->aliens need something to do damage to marine structures -- to counter the instant hive clear out of a single grenade launcher...
but even bile bomb doesn't kill 30-50 res units along with all alien buildings in mere seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bilebomb is responsible for ending SO many games SO easily.
Even with the properties of the GL you talk about, it hasn't nearly that big impact.
WOw.
Finaly not feeling alienated.
IMO collision is a bigger issue for skulks than it is for marines since in 9/10 cases the skulk will be moving faster and will thus end up further afield than the marine when they clip through each other. Not to mention skulk is melee and marines are range. Unless of course its one of those skulks who has managed to actively take advantage of the bad collision.
IMO collision is a bigger issue for skulks than it is for marines since in 9/10 cases the skulk will be moving faster and will thus end up further afield than the marine when they clip through each other. Not to mention skulk is melee and marines are range. Unless of course its one of those skulks who has managed to actively take advantage of the bad collision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i had to login just to respond to this. the gorge is a little less maneuverable ? are you serious? if anything its the opposite. have you tried chasing a gorge who belly slides at the speed of light? the bile bomb is a huge issue right now and with it's range being so long its belly slide speed just adds to the imbalance, the gorge needs work. priority being the bile bomb range.
IMO collision is a bigger issue for skulks than it is for marines since in 9/10 cases the skulk will be moving faster and will thus end up further afield than the marine when they clip through each other. Not to mention skulk is melee and marines are range. Unless of course its one of those skulks who has managed to actively take advantage of the bad collision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is that for less skilled marines - about half or more of everyone playing - if you don't kill a charging skulk with 1 clip the collision problem will almost guaranty a dead marine even if he uses the pistol as backup.
The skulk with the same collision problem has a fast unlimited biting time with a wide damage cone make it easier even for new players.
The alien win rate proves this is happening alot.
Even with the properties of the GL you talk about, it hasn't nearly that big impact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean lots of gorges doing a rush together, able to do alot of damage.
I don't see a problem with that. Its far more tame than JP-GL rambos destroying 100 res solo, and instantly killing anyone who spawns. Gorges are weak, and cannot fight marines. Its fine.
I'v not seen bilebomb being a real problem in a normal match.