<!--quoteo(post=2000720:date=Oct 30 2012, 10:53 AM:name=Jrp001)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jrp001 @ Oct 30 2012, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->T-13 hours till launch :).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, is the countdown timer incorrect? Bit confused as to what time it's actually released.
For each cyst there are a number of circular patches of infestation. Each patch has a blobby bit, and a flatter bit which makes it blend into other things nicely. The blobby bit has parts moving in different directions so it looks alive on close inspection. It doesn't cover much of the walls or ceiling.
It's better than what we had before. First of all it has more texture (tessellation?) so when light comes from low angles it looks great. It also reflects light sources.
What makes it different from the prototype we saw years ago is it appears in patches instead of spreading out in a stream. If it would spread directionally from cyst to the next cyst that would look amazing.
(1) Come on, UWE, this is a matter of a single copy & paste. Show yourself on Steam NEWS! <img src="http://i.imgur.com/kFSNYh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(2) This problem will sort itself out eventually; nevertheless the effort should be another simple copy & paste on your side. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/M3iLrh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(3) Give the Exos a (StarCraft's) Goliath robotic voice when they use voice commands like "Weld me" or "Need orders"
(4) Make sure that the tutorial videos play inside the game and don't catapult you out of NS2. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/hJ37b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=2000675:date=Oct 30 2012, 10:30 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 30 2012, 10:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems like a good patch, glad to hear the "hitreg" problems have been fixed.
Any chance at all that you guys can remove the screen shake from the machine gun and increase the time each message stays in the kill feed (double it) before release? These are improvements that seem like should only take a couple of moments (at least it only took me a couple of moments, back when we could still use client mods) to fix, and are quite important to some of us.
I don't know how many times the shaky screen effect has been mentioned on these forums, but nothing happens. :tear:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone else think a touch of transparency would go a long way to making the infestation look more organic? Also maybe an effect as it recedes, like evaporation.
<!--quoteo(post=2000671:date=Oct 30 2012, 10:21 AM:name=L34D)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L34D @ Oct 30 2012, 10:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice. BUT the old texture of the infestation looks far better than the limegreen slime. The green looks too dominant for me now. It doesnt fit to the ground texture of the buildings (hydras etc.).
Is the green slime a placeholder and the final looks like the ground texture from buildings?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah it's a bit much, would look a lot better with a mix of green and orange or brown, the green doesn't fit well with their skin colour and it just doesn't blend well with map textures, it needs a bit of work.
Bravo to the UWE team! It's been quite a ride. Still remembering the post when y'all announced that you'd found an investor and it was really going to happen... Cheers to a great decade, and more to come!
<!--quoteo(post=2000750:date=Oct 30 2012, 04:34 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Oct 30 2012, 04:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still has no effect on light sources. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In one of my earlier prototypes I had it casting shadows. At one point I noticed this crazy shadow that was moving across the room, and then I noticed the infestation had grown over a light source. Casting shadows was a bit heavy on the performance, so I disabled it.
<!--quoteo(post=2000743:date=Oct 30 2012, 06:23 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Oct 30 2012, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't the server supposed to rewind time based on ping/interp? The angle you're facing when you fire should be the angle used, not the angle of the frame before, not the angle of the frame after.
At the extreme case, if you're facing completely away from your target frame 1, then snap to the target and fire in frame two, then spin 180° in frame 3, you should still hit the target. Patch 225 it sounds like you'd miss due to the bullets going at frame 1's angle, patch 226 sound like it would fire on frame 3's angle. It really should use frame 2's angle though, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember that what you are seeing onscreen when you press fire is the result of the previous frame's calculations - it is the state of the game in the frame before the one your commands will be executed in.
The server can rewind time, but the client doesn't do that - it can't execute your fire command in the frame you are looking at because it has already executed everything for that frame and drawn the results. So your attack happens in the next frame on the client. For prediction to work right and the game to feel right, you probably want the server doing things in the same frame as the client predicts them.
The way it works now seems to me like it should work because it lets you track objects correctly - if you see your crosshair over an enemy, and you are moving your crosshair at the same speed as the enemy is moving, and you press fire, then when the commands get executed in the next frame your crosshair will move to the objects new position, then the attack trace will be done. Previously, you were still aiming at where the thing was in the previous frame when the attack trace was done if I understand dushan correctly
I really love the new infestation, I think the empty patches enhance the effect rather than detracting from it, they give it a more organic look, though I can see how it may be a little confusing for some first-time alien commanders if the infestation doesn't cover the res node. I don't think that's a good enough reason to change it though, they will learn quick enough, awesome work guys, I am stoked for 1.0!
P.S. Hit reg fix is brilliant, well done again! Another case of making something better highlighting a previously unrecognised error and swiftly dealt with!
The new infestation looks pretty good, definitely gets the job done for now. The biggest improvement needed is to cover the whole floor, if only for gameplay reasons - IMO it should just be the walls and ceilings that have incomplete patches(so as not to cover the entire map in pure green). The cyst itself should always have a floor decal under it at least, it doesn't look right for it to be sitting on metal. It would also be nice if the patches grew outwards from the cyst instead of randomly within its radius. Maybe for that just make the radius of patch generation gradually increase over the course of a few seconds after the cyst is finished.
Hit prediction is never perfect in any online game and you need to make some compromises to get it working well. To get truly perfect hit detection you would need to trust the client's view 100% which isn't an option. If what they built feels good in 99% of cases then there's no problem.
<!--quoteo(post=2000700:date=Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM:name=3del!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (3del! @ Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I always thought it was called blanket... Strange language you people speak...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah because having the same word for blanked and ceiling is so much more logical. ^^
At the new infestation: Great work! But wouldn't it be better to have the old texture additionally to the new blobs? Maybe the texture could be a little bit transparent, to remain this patch-feeling of the infestation, ubt have a clear indicator of what is infested.
<!--quoteo(post=2000853:date=Oct 30 2012, 09:32 AM:name=shader)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shader @ Oct 30 2012, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Remember that what you are seeing onscreen when you press fire is the result of the previous frame's calculations - it is the state of the game in the frame before the one your commands will be executed in.
The server can rewind time, but the client doesn't do that - it can't execute your fire command in the frame you are looking at because it has already executed everything for that frame and drawn the results. So your attack happens in the next frame on the client. For prediction to work right and the game to feel right, you probably want the server doing things in the same frame as the client predicts them.
The way it works now seems to me like it should work because it lets you track objects correctly - if you see your crosshair over an enemy, and you are moving your crosshair at the same speed as the enemy is moving, and you press fire, then when the commands get executed in the next frame your crosshair will move to the objects new position, then the attack trace will be done. Previously, you were still aiming at where the thing was in the previous frame when the attack trace was done if I understand dushan correctly<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, makes more sense now. There never is a "current frame". You update the game state, render the frame, display the frame, update, render, display, etc. So I guess the issue previously was that in the update game state step, the fire command was processed before the accumulated movement, so the new game state had you fire at the old angle even though it would render you facing at the new angle.
<!--quoteo(post=2000847:date=Oct 30 2012, 02:26 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Oct 30 2012, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In one of my earlier prototypes I had it casting shadows. At one point I noticed this crazy shadow that was moving across the room, and then I noticed the infestation had grown over a light source. Casting shadows was a bit heavy on the performance, so I disabled it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Could you please instead introduce several graphics option levels? Like, Shadows - None/Standard/High etc?
Don't move it to 3 hives, it'll just disappear from the metagame entirely then (since usually 3 hives is way later than p.res onos) Tie it to matured second hive and increase maturation time significantly. Or find some other way to delay it by several minutes while still keeping it at the second hive.
Also, any possible reason why my performance feels worse in 226 compared to 224? :(
<!--quoteo(post=2000988:date=Oct 30 2012, 11:50 AM:name=Shaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shaker @ Oct 30 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game itself feels great this patch. Unfortunately t.res onos is till 2 hive - please move t.res onos to 3 hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played 3 games where the only thing the Khammander did was save for Onos.
Hell, I think you were there when I raged at the Khammander on Summit for doing that instead of setting up forward bases.
Boring and uninspiring if you ask me.
This patch still is an improvement nonetheless. I just can't be bothered playing seriously until some of these problems (2nd Hive Onos, LMG screen-shake, more responsive Kharaa movement on par with Marines, egglocking, GL's not doing less damage to players) are fixed.
<!--quoteo(post=2000998:date=Oct 30 2012, 10:02 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 30 2012, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, any possible reason why my performance feels worse in 226 compared to 224? :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be cooler if the infestation spread from the cyst in different veins spreading in different directions connecting and overlapping with the other infestation, not in a circular motion (that looks a little fake)
Oh, just noticed you can put the infestation on the old version in the graphic options, that's certainly a great feature for lower end machines! (Since the new DI DOES affect your FPS somewhat)
Also, I believe they've stated they will continue optimisation well past 1.0. Though I reckon if your performance is really really poor, no optimisation in the world will be able to save you and you will probably have to get a new GPU. (Make sure it's actually your GPU and not your CPU holding your performance back)
Comments
I love it
Hmm, is the countdown timer incorrect? Bit confused as to what time it's actually released.
For each cyst there are a number of circular patches of infestation. Each patch has a blobby bit, and a flatter bit which makes it blend into other things nicely. The blobby bit has parts moving in different directions so it looks alive on close inspection. It doesn't cover much of the walls or ceiling.
It's better than what we had before. First of all it has more texture (tessellation?) so when light comes from low angles it looks great. It also reflects light sources.
What makes it different from the prototype we saw years ago is it appears in patches instead of spreading out in a stream. If it would spread directionally from cyst to the next cyst that would look amazing.
Looks much better than the loading screens.
Still has no effect on light sources. :(
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ZiJSK.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/b0N00.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/YCIZ7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/gIKgZ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The infestation blends really nicely with these clogs.
(1) Come on, UWE, this is a matter of a single copy & paste. Show yourself on Steam NEWS!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/kFSNYh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(2) This problem will sort itself out eventually; nevertheless the effort should be another simple copy & paste on your side.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/M3iLrh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(3)
Give the Exos a (StarCraft's) Goliath robotic voice when they use voice commands like "Weld me" or "Need orders"
(4)
Make sure that the tutorial videos play inside the game and don't catapult you out of NS2.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/hJ37b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
NINJA!
Any chance at all that you guys can remove the screen shake from the machine gun and increase the time each message stays in the kill feed (double it) before release? These are improvements that seem like should only take a couple of moments (at least it only took me a couple of moments, back when we could still use client mods) to fix, and are quite important to some of us.
I don't know how many times the shaky screen effect has been mentioned on these forums, but nothing happens. :tear:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, pretty please make this happen.
Also maybe an effect as it recedes, like evaporation.
Is the green slime a placeholder and the final looks like the ground texture from buildings?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah it's a bit much, would look a lot better with a mix of green and orange or brown, the green doesn't fit well with their skin colour and it just doesn't blend well with map textures, it needs a bit of work.
Yay!
In one of my earlier prototypes I had it casting shadows. At one point I noticed this crazy shadow that was moving across the room, and then I noticed the infestation had grown over a light source. Casting shadows was a bit heavy on the performance, so I disabled it.
At the extreme case, if you're facing completely away from your target frame 1, then snap to the target and fire in frame two, then spin 180° in frame 3, you should still hit the target. Patch 225 it sounds like you'd miss due to the bullets going at frame 1's angle, patch 226 sound like it would fire on frame 3's angle. It really should use frame 2's angle though, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember that what you are seeing onscreen when you press fire is the result of the previous frame's calculations - it is the state of the game in the frame before the one your commands will be executed in.
The server can rewind time, but the client doesn't do that - it can't execute your fire command in the frame you are looking at because it has already executed everything for that frame and drawn the results. So your attack happens in the next frame on the client. For prediction to work right and the game to feel right, you probably want the server doing things in the same frame as the client predicts them.
The way it works now seems to me like it should work because it lets you track objects correctly - if you see your crosshair over an enemy, and you are moving your crosshair at the same speed as the enemy is moving, and you press fire, then when the commands get executed in the next frame your crosshair will move to the objects new position, then the attack trace will be done. Previously, you were still aiming at where the thing was in the previous frame when the attack trace was done if I understand dushan correctly
P.S. Hit reg fix is brilliant, well done again! Another case of making something better highlighting a previously unrecognised error and swiftly dealt with!
Hit prediction is never perfect in any online game and you need to make some compromises to get it working well. To get truly perfect hit detection you would need to trust the client's view 100% which isn't an option. If what they built feels good in 99% of cases then there's no problem.
Yeah because having the same word for blanked and ceiling is so much more logical. ^^
At the new infestation: Great work! But wouldn't it be better to have the old texture additionally to the new blobs? Maybe the texture could be a little bit transparent, to remain this patch-feeling of the infestation, ubt have a clear indicator of what is infested.
The server can rewind time, but the client doesn't do that - it can't execute your fire command in the frame you are looking at because it has already executed everything for that frame and drawn the results. So your attack happens in the next frame on the client. For prediction to work right and the game to feel right, you probably want the server doing things in the same frame as the client predicts them.
The way it works now seems to me like it should work because it lets you track objects correctly - if you see your crosshair over an enemy, and you are moving your crosshair at the same speed as the enemy is moving, and you press fire, then when the commands get executed in the next frame your crosshair will move to the objects new position, then the attack trace will be done. Previously, you were still aiming at where the thing was in the previous frame when the attack trace was done if I understand dushan correctly<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, makes more sense now. There never is a "current frame". You update the game state, render the frame, display the frame, update, render, display, etc. So I guess the issue previously was that in the update game state step, the fire command was processed before the accumulated movement, so the new game state had you fire at the old angle even though it would render you facing at the new angle.
Could you please instead introduce several graphics option levels? Like, Shadows - None/Standard/High etc?
That would be really nice!
I really liked the infestation, I really hope I like the new version....
Also, any possible reason why my performance feels worse in 226 compared to 224? :(
I've played 3 games where the only thing the Khammander did was save for Onos.
Hell, I think you were there when I raged at the Khammander on Summit for doing that instead of setting up forward bases.
Boring and uninspiring if you ask me.
This patch still is an improvement nonetheless. I just can't be bothered playing seriously until some of these problems (2nd Hive Onos, LMG screen-shake, more responsive Kharaa movement on par with Marines, egglocking, GL's not doing less damage to players) are fixed.
Dynamic infestation ;-) .
More graph. features aren't free.
Also, I believe they've stated they will continue optimisation well past 1.0. Though I reckon if your performance is really really poor, no optimisation in the world will be able to save you and you will probably have to get a new GPU. (Make sure it's actually your GPU and not your CPU holding your performance back)