3 out of the 5 lifeforms becoming irrelevant and useless 10 minutes into the game vs decent marines is poor game design and leads to boring play.
The only time aliens win vs full teched marines even with 3 hives and all upgrades is when they spam onos.
That is boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't agree with that assessment, none of the lifeforms are ever useless. I rarely see Onos "spam", needing one or two of them in the endgame is not unreasonable. There are certainly more balance tweaks to be made, like reducing the emphasis on the comm dropping eggs, but the situation is not as dire as you guys are making it out to be.
<!--quoteo(post=2003009:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:46 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 31 2012, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aside from GLs being nerfed, I still believe the best way to fix balance at the moment is to stop Armories from healing armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Gl's are pretty nerfed as is they are not that hard to deal with on there own but most of the time if you are getting gl spammed you have lost the rt battle anyway because they can afford it.
The armories do heal armor but not right away they heal health first so my first tactic in any marine base as anything but onos is to go to the armory. 7 times out of 10 the person you just saw walk up to that armory is in real need of some tlc and will go down really quick. It also makes the marines go back to base for healing of the armor somewhere which means they aren't attacking just sitting there with a big bite me sign on there back. It's all about playing smart and seeing who is the most likely to die because as I said most the time that is the guy sitting with his face to the armory and his back to you.
You people cry too much. You know why skulks are weak? because they're the basic class for aliens. Why would you make them so strong that you wouldn't need to upgrade to Lerk, Fade, or Onos? The answer is you wouldn't because if you did no one would play this damn game.
The key to Alien victories is, and always has been, teamwork. Going along with this, you need to have good resource management. You need to stay alive longer in the earlier stages of the game so that you can upgrade to higher lifeforms before the Marine team gets too overwhelming. Too often I see people wasting res on going Lerk multiple times, dying, and being stuck as a skulk the rest of the game. Try saving your resources, and upgrading once your commander researches an ability such as Blink or Spores. Or just save up for Onos and destroy an entire side of the map.
<!--quoteo(post=2002998:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:43 PM:name=MunchySnacks1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunchySnacks1 @ Oct 31 2012, 01:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am interested in what lifeforms you think are useless? They all have a place in late game I am guessing 1 is skulk they should be taking out rts and supporting the higher lifeforms to get kills. Skulks run in with onos or fade and the marines mostly ignore them and go for the higher life form giving them a chance to do some real damage before they are noticed. The lerk is super important late game with its spores and umbra it can make or break a base rush for the aliens not to mention keep the marines locked up in base trying to kill it because it is slowly killing them all with spores. The last one I don't know what you are talking about gorge (super important to keep higher life forms at the front line and bile bomb just kills the s##t out of structures.) or the fade (that should be blinking in and out of combat taking 1-3 swipes late game before falling back and healing any damage then just repeating this is way more damaging than it sounds because it puts the marines on the defensive so they are not out taking res and tech points.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge and Onos are the only two useful lifeforms late game.
Skulks, Lerks, and Fades are the ones that drop off in usefulness. Those three do not bring the necessary tech from NS1 that lets the bring anything to the table during base sieges.
-Skulks succumb easily to grenade spam and the damage you do is minimal (unless the marines are blind to you). Going gorge and shooting bilebomb/healing the onos in the bases are 3x more effective than going in as a skulk. -Lerks' trailing spores are suicidal to use and umbra is very meh. Instead of spending 30 resources, that's 3 times you could have gone gorge. Without primal scream, the real reason why you wanted one lerk during sieges, is not in the game. -Fade. Armory healing armor ###### on Fades. 2 shotgun shells stops a fade dead in its tracks, literally. Save the 50 resources and go onos 25 resources later. Without acid rocket during sieges, they too bring nothing to the table.
<!--quoteo(post=2003018:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:50 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 31 2012, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't agree with that assessment, none of the lifeforms are ever useless. I rarely see Onos "spam", needing one or two of them in the endgame is not unreasonable. There are certainly more balance tweaks to be made, like reducing the emphasis on the comm dropping eggs, but the situation is not as dire as you guys are making it out to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Cause I've completely held out on 2 bases as the Aliens kept throwing 1-2 onos with fade and skulk support in a 8v8 game. The only time they finally got the base is when I told them to wait and bring in 4-5 onos and a few gorges.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You people cry too much. You know why skulks are weak? because they're the basic class for aliens. Why would you make them so strong that you wouldn't need to upgrade to Lerk, Fade, or Onos? The answer is you wouldn't because if you did no one would play this damn game.
The key to Alien victories is, and always has been, teamwork. Going along with this, you need to have good resource management. You need to stay alive longer in the earlier stages of the game <b>so that you can upgrade to higher lifeforms</b> before the Marine team gets too overwhelming. Too often I see people <b>wasting res on going Lerk multiple times</b>, dying, and being <b>stuck as a skulk the rest of the game</b>. Try saving your resources, and upgrading once your commander researches an ability such as Blink or Spores. <b>Or just save up for Onos and destroy an entire side of the map</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice. You just listed why alien game play is stale and boring.
And skulks being weak late game. Is that why lmg basic marines don't scale too? Since they're the basic unit.
<!--quoteo(post=2003043:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:58 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 31 2012, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge and Onos are the only two useful lifeforms late game.
Skulks, Lerks, and Fades are the ones that drop off in usefulness. Those three do not bring the necessary tech from NS1 that lets the bring anything to the table during base sieges.
-Skulks succumb easily to grenade spam and the damage you do is minimal (unless the marines are blind to you). Going gorge and shooting bilebomb/healing the onos in the bases are 3x more effective than going in as a skulk. <i>This is true but at the same time if the marines have the res to do gl spam you are doing something wrong like now using the skulk to take out the rts 2-5 mins before hand when you saw they had such map control. They are also very useful in a mixed squad skulks running around an onos's feet can kill a lot of people and do a lot of unnoticed damage if they keep just moving. NEVER EVER STAND STILL as a skulk in a marine base you might as well get your headstone ready. </i> -Lerks' trailing spores are suicidal to use and umbra is very meh. Instead of spending 30 resources, that's 3 times you could go gorge to be 2x more useful. Without primal scream, the real reason why lerks you wanted one lerk during sieges, is not here. <i>This just isn't true if you have the right upgrades a lerk with celerity can fly through a base way faster than it can be shot as long as it does strafing runs just go through to the other side heal up and fly back across. If you are staying in the base you will die also late game if you are going in the base alone you will die this is true but umbra can help a rush like nothing else with onos</i> -Fade. Armory healing armor ###### on Fades. 2 shotgun shells stops a fade dead in its tracks, literally. Save the 50 resources and go onos 25 resources later. Without acid rocket during sieges, they too bring nothing to the table. <i>As a fade you should be doing hit and run this means 1-3 swipes per pass don't give them the chance to shoot you. Your job late game is harassment (keeping them tied up at base ie using the armory you hate so much instead of going out to kill rts and hives) and support like going in with an onos( when an onos is in the room you have pretty much free reign most marines will shoot the onos of course. </i>
Really? Cause I've completely held out on 2 bases as the Aliens kept throwing 1-2 onos with fade and skulk support in a 8v8 game. The only time they finally got the base is when I told them to wait and bring in 4-5 onos and a few gorges. <i>This sounds like very late game/maxed out tech which would make since. If marines have 3-3 your lucky to be able to take on 3 more likely 2 or 1 marien. This is the end of the tech tree what do you expect an instant win onos or exo button? That wouldn't be balanced and I bet if you went with 3 onos 2 gorges they could have made it as long as the gorges kept the onos healed up for the initial assault and then turned to bile bomb. I see way to many times when gorges go in not healing but bombing and onos fall soon after. </i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--fonto:Comic Sans MS--><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><!--/fonto-->OK Guys,
I'm not trying to start any fights of balance vs imbalance. I was just sharing my opinion and first impression.
I did admit I am a noob (obviously since I even thought leap did damage) but I am a person that plays at least 20 hours of games a week.
I will not argue any more on the forums about this, Me and my Ventrilo team have started playing this game. At "first look" if me and my team had the ability to play marines. There is NO WAY the aliens are going to win. Especially once we learn the maps and grow accustomed to alien movement and speed and learn a few tricks.
I'll start recording each game in a week or two and I will be surprised if I don't have 70% or more win rate with Marines and maybe a 60% or lower win rate as aliens.
Either way, have fun and I'll see you in game.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2003080:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:12 PM:name=Flatlander)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flatlander @ Oct 31 2012, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--fonto:Comic Sans MS--><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS"><!--/fonto-->OK Guys,
I'm not trying to start any fights of balance vs imbalance. I was just sharing my opinion and first impression.
I did admit I am a noob (obviously since I even thought leap did damage) but I am a person that plays at least 20 hours of games a week.
I will not argue any more on the forums about this, Me and my Ventrilo team have started playing this game. At "first look" if me and my team had the ability to play marines. There is NO WAY the aliens are going to win. Especially once we learn the maps and grow accustomed to alien movement and speed and learn a few tricks.
I'll start recording each game in a week or two and I will be surprised if I don't have 70% or more win rate with Marines and maybe a 60% or lower win rate as aliens.
Either way, have fun and I'll see you in game.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would love to team up with you guys and give you some hints on alien play. If you are doing pub what you said I can totally believe because most new people have trouble grasping the alien play style at first not to mention if you are playing with friends you will communicate better and that is what really wins the matches. Oh BTW steam name is just MunchySnacks hope to see you ingame!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is true but at the same time if the marines have the res to do gl spam you are doing something wrong like now using the skulk to take out the rts 2-5 mins before hand when you saw they had such map control. They are also very useful in a mixed squad skulks running around an onos's feet can kill a lot of people and do a lot of unnoticed damage if they keep just moving. NEVER EVER STAND STILL as a skulk in a marine base you might as well get your headstone ready.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not hard to afford grenade launchers on 1-3 rts. In fact, the game I spoke of, we had only 3 rts and I was able to drop exosuits and grenade launchers left and right as a commander. But that's a symptom of a terrible mechanic allowed to go release. Those skulks are better going gorge. Sorry, but once the onos goes down due to lack of healing, the skulks are useless. Now your teammate is down 75 resources and your stuck doing nothing as skulks when a gorge would have kept the onos alive and able to continue wrecking the marine base.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This just isn't true if you have the right upgrades a lerk with celerity can fly through a base way faster than it can be shot as long as it does strafing runs just go through to the other side heal up and fly back across. If you are staying in the base you will die also late game if you are going in the base alone you will die this is true but umbra can help a rush like nothing else with onos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I still much rather have another gorge than a lerk. All it takes is one player with good aim holding a shotgun to nuke that lerk from the sky. I guess it's just a matter of personal opinion, but I strongly feel the lerks still have no place during sieges.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a fade you should be doing hit and run this means 1-3 swipes per pass don't give them the chance to shoot you. Your job late game is harassment (keeping them tied up at base ie using the armory you hate so much instead of going out to kill rts and hives) and support like going in with an onos( when an onos is in the room you have pretty much free reign most marines will shoot the onos of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those 1-3 swipes per pass would be fantastic if armories didn't heal armor or it only took 2-3 swipes to kill an armor 3 marine. But since the armory does repair armor, you effective did nothing against that marine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This sounds like very late game/maxed out tech which would make since. If marines have 3-3 your lucky to be able to take on 3 more likely 2 or 1 marien. This is the end of the tech tree what do you expect an instant win onos or exo button? That wouldn't be balanced and I bet if you went with 3 onos 2 gorges they could have made it as long as the gorges kept the onos healed up for the initial assault and then turned to bile bomb. I see way to many times when gorges go in not healing but bombing and onos fall soon after.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off.
<!--quoteo(post=2003109:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:28 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 31 2012, 02:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not hard to afford grenade launchers on 1-3 rts. In fact, the game I spoke of, we had only 3 rts and I was able to drop exosuits and grenade launchers left and right as a commander. But that's a symptom of a terrible mechanic allowed to go release. Those skulks are better going gorge. Sorry, but once the onos goes down due to lack of healing, the skulks are useless. Now your teammate is down 75 resources and your stuck doing nothing as skulks when a gorge would have kept the onos alive and able to continue wrecking the marine base. <i>I can't see this happening in anything other than a long drawn out pub game ie over 20-30 mins. And you are right about the onos if you read my previous post you should have seen that I was saying you need a balance you need a well rounded team that includes gorges, onos , skulks, fades and lerks. If you have in a typical 8v8 game 16 player late game you should have 2 onos, 2 gorges, 1 lerk, 1 fade 2 skulks for a rush and yes it really does take the whole team to do it flawlessly this isn't always possible however so most would drop the skulks and or lerk that doesn't mean that they can't be useful and really turn the tide. I have had many a game that the onos distracted while healed by the gorge and lerk and the skulks just killed the power. </i>
Sorry, I still much rather have another gorge than a lerk. All it takes is one player with good aim holding a shotgun to nuke that lerk from the sky. I guess it's just a matter of personal opinion, but I strongly feel the lerks still have no place during sieges. <i>It takes at least 2 shotgun blast (not sure the exact number might be more) to kill a lerk but late game with umbra they can save a onos as much as a gorge can if they umbra the marines can't see through it unlike spores giving a chance to escape and or do major damage with alien vision. Lerks are super importent late game for keeping the mariens in base and just doing general harassment. </i>
Those 1-3 swipes per pass would be fantastic if armories didn't heal armor or it only took 2-3 swipes to kill an armor 3 marine. But since the armory does repair armor, you effective did nothing against that marine. <i>For one I was talking late game here you can get away with more early game that is for sure. But the main point here is to keep the mariens on the defensive which is just worth soooo much. If you can keep them running around base trying to kill you. That is a win for aliens becuse you are making them take a defensive postiure letting you attack there rt's and cc's outside of there main base(maybe even drawing beacons from them that drain there res pool).</i>
It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off. <i>This actually agrees with everything I said. In late game you have to have onos but a proper support team of other life forms is really important. You can get by with 5 onos and a couple of gorges no problem if you have the res but the team that plays together wins together. In competitive play you really need the whole mix of races not so much in pub as I said. </i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2002660:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:35 PM:name=Squirreli_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squirreli_ @ Oct 31 2012, 02:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-When you jump down from a height, you gain speed. You will lose speed when you stay on the ground, but if you time the next jump just right and don't spend time on the floor, you get to keep that speed. You do have to go back to the walls again every once in a while though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the first thing I taught to all my Alien rookies. They became very competent skulks once this had been demonstrated to them.
<!--quoteo(post=2003109:date=Oct 31 2012, 06:28 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 31 2012, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorges win games people. We had a game we clawed back and could not beat marines out of Subaccess. (we had the rest of the map) So I taught the people on my team how to gorge and we won eventually. Only took us two onos (one was me and the other was a guy with a mic who was willing to learn and work as a team) and about 4-5 gorges healing and bilebombing from behind us! :D
<!--quoteo(post=2002660:date=Oct 31 2012, 09:35 AM:name=Squirreli_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squirreli_ @ Oct 31 2012, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Quite a few players have good aim from exposure to the shooting kind of FPS for years. The genre has been around for a bit over 20 years after all. Now, moving around like a skulk and trying to melee is really rare in any FPS game and the current skulk movement/combat model is pretty unique. It will take a lot more time to master the skulk than it takes to be good at shooting at things. Also, skulks generally require a sense of timing, cooperation and knowledge of the maps. Currently, both basic marine and skulk are pretty evenly matched in competitive play, although there is a consensus that marine skill ceiling is somewhat higher. New players however have to generally spend much much more time on learning the skulk. Skulk relies heavily on movement and positioning where marine play relies heavily on aiming.
Things to note about playing skulks: -Try and make accurate bites. There are 3 hit cones with the most difficult having 100% dmg, the second 66% dmg and the last 33% dmg. This means 75/50/25 dmg per bite. -An unupgraded marine takes just 2 full 75 dmg bites and 10 damage from anywhere, say, parasite. If a marine doesn't have any armour left, he will go down even quicker. -When you jump down from a height, you gain speed. You will lose speed when you stay on the ground, but if you time the next jump just right and don't spend time on the floor, you get to keep that speed. You do have to go back to the walls again every once in a while though. -You might want to have a slightly higher sensitivity for aliens. This can be done via mouse or bindings, like typing in console 'bind PageUp "setsensitivity 1.0"' and 'bind PageDown "setsensitivity 1.15"' -Do not go straight along the floor or directly to the marines. Ground rocket skulks are cannon fodder. Use sideways movement and altitude changes to make the marines work much harder. That way he spends more ammo and you close in on a marine with an empty magazine. -Try and use more teamwork. It doesn't come to the aliens as naturally but it is very necessary! Marines basically auto-teamwork compared to aliens due to phase gates and the ranged attackers ability to more easily support each other (by shooting at the teammates feet!). Aliens need to have a bit more teamwork. In competitive teams going in solo as a skulk is one of the worst things to do, and usually teams will group up and then say "go go go" and all go in as a group. Hard to pull off on publics, but a bit necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Armory is a 10 res drop that heals, repairs armor, and gives ammo/weapons. It's easily the most overpowered building in the game. At the very least make healing armor require the armory to be advanced.
<!--quoteo(post=2003203:date=Oct 31 2012, 03:30 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 31 2012, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Armory is a 10 res drop that heals, repairs armor, and gives ammo/weapons. It's easily the most overpowered building in the game. At the very least make healing armor require the armory to be advanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eh I don't know about that the gorge is 10 res heals, repairs armor, heal structures, builds structures, attacks structures, and is cute to boot! Seems pretty much the same since the alien com can drop eggs just like that marien com can drop armories. The downside or upside is the gorge is a player controlled character that can move about the map. Seems pretty fair to me.
<!--quoteo(post=2003224:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:38 PM:name=MunchySnacks1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunchySnacks1 @ Oct 31 2012, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eh I don't know about that the gorge is 10 res heals, repairs armor, heal structures, builds structures, attacks structures, and is cute to boot! Seems pretty much the same since the alien com can drop eggs just like that marien com can drop armories. The downside or upside is the gorge is a player controlled character that can move about the map. Seems pretty fair to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An armory is not a player, don't even compare it to the Gorge. You have a limited number of players on your team, 12 tops and marines can have an unlimited number of armories. A player has to sacrifice combat effectiveness when going Gorge.
To drop eggs, the Alien comm needs a Shift hive (20 res), a Shift (10 res), and then eggs (1 res each). Shifts only replenish energy and do not heal aliens. Crags will heal aliens but then you need another hive and Crag hive research (40+20) and about 3-5 crags in order to be about 30% as effective as an armory (crags are 10 res each). Oh, and each Crag and Shift is much weaker than an armory.
<!--quoteo(post=2003203:date=Oct 31 2012, 10:30 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 31 2012, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Armory is a 10 res drop that heals, repairs armor, and gives ammo/weapons. It's easily the most overpowered building in the game. At the very least make healing armor require the armory to be advanced.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Armory is too powerfull.. I mean common.. Marines spend 10 res and get hp, armor, weapons and ammo and they get them really quickly, while aliens have to spam atleast 3-5 crags and a shift and it sums to like 50 res~ Not to mention that crags heal really slow
<!--quoteo(post=2003253:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:50 PM:name=ItAx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ItAx @ Oct 31 2012, 02:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003253"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. Armory is too powerfull.. I mean common.. Marines spend 10 res and get hp, armor, weapons and ammo and they get them really quickly, while aliens have to spam atleast 3-5 crags and a shift and it sums to like 50 res~ Not to mention that crags heal really slow<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Crags can heal faster... for a seconds... for about 3 res per crag.
They should split the healing from the Armory , Armory should do what the name implies restock ammunations. Then they could make another medic station to heal, that way they would actually to have a real choice, do we need heal or ammo here?.
Does crags also regen alien energy instanty back to full? because that would be equal of marines getting fully stocked ammo.
<!--quoteo(post=2004023:date=Oct 31 2012, 10:32 PM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Oct 31 2012, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does crags also regen alien energy instanty back to full? because that would be equal of marines getting fully stocked ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2004023:date=Nov 1 2012, 12:32 AM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Nov 1 2012, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They should split the healing from the Armory , Armory should do what the name implies restock ammunations. Then they could make another medic station to heal, that way they would actually to have a real choice, do we need heal or ammo here?.
Does crags also regen alien energy instanty back to full? because that would be equal of marines getting fully stocked ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In NS1 armories only healed health/restocked ammo and Marines had to weld eachother to restore armor (In NS2 we also have MACS for automatic welding). It worked well. Alien hit and run tactics worked in NS1 because, while marines could heal at the armory or get a medpack from the commander, they could not get armor back without welders.
Shifts restore Alien energy very fast while the Aliens are near them. Crags heal nearby Aliens, and VERY VERY slowly. It takes 3-5 crags (Crags are 10 res each) to even get close to the amount armories heal.
A game with incredible depth (nothing compared to NS1) and people are already crying imbalanced?
Please understand the game fully before claiming anything. There are so many little things on skulk (walljump, ceiling drop, abusing bad animations, timing bites, game smarts, teamwork, understanding how to abuse the netcode, feigns with team mates, drawing fire, counting bullets) that can even the score. This applies to every class on Aliens
Please realise that their are marines/aliens running around with 10 years of NS1 experience and they have played hundreds/thousands of hours of NS2 beta. <b>The game is imbalanced, but only at a top level. </b> If you're a good player, you will beat 99% of players as aliens or mariens.
FYI: Asymmetrical games are never truely balanced. You also have evolving meta games which can completely change everything ( see sc:bw when vulture mines + seige tanks started countering speedlots/dragoons or muta stacking)
All you new people. This is NS. Marines shoot, and aliens have to start off biting. Rines have range. skulks have speed, small hit target AND CAN CLIMB WALLS. No to mention the ability to hide in crevasses. I love been Gorge and just bombing the crap out of an entire base and watching rines scramble. I love being a lerk and just ###### all over the air and choking rines to death, and unlimited needling LOL the best. Im not good with fade but the people that know how to play fade = OP. ONOS train LOL = massive death to ameri..rines
There is not problem with balance. You know what there is a problem with? ###### FRAMERATE.
its just easier to play marines off the bat, since you can all build, you spawn with all benefits, and you're a ranged FPS standard player -- was always gonna be like this until players get used to playing aliens :)
<!--quoteo(post=2002712:date=Nov 1 2012, 01:09 AM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Nov 1 2012, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have actually. But pub stomping is another thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2002940:date=Oct 31 2012, 10:10 AM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Oct 31 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.............You cant balance a game around pros only who have played this game 1000 hours.
imagine if Starcraft 2 was only balanced for the best of the best.
There is something wrong with game balance, when new players can go in a own as marines, but you should read these 100 page on tips and stuff before playing alien and being mediocre at it.
marines it just aim and pull the trigger, no recoil. and jump around like a madman helps ofcourse.
Like it or not the aliens are gonna get buffed heavily in the coming weeks, and Marines are getting nerfed. There has to be a balance for public and then for Pro's.
Also how is a new player going to learn being a commander?, sitting around watching youtube videos and reading about it does not pro player make. Its the same problem in battlefield 3, dont you dare flying a ###### air craft if your................ etc etc<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually think the Aliens are perfect - after a few hours of skulking its pretty clear you need to cause chaos in groups. Also the most fun!
The marines are totally OP.... The marine rifle may as well be a laser. Some kind of long burst accuracy decrease would be awesome. Once they have jetpacks and you're stuck with mostly skulks, forgetaboutit! Its easier to kill an Exo 1v1 than a marine with shotty + jetpack.
Am I really expect to climb a wall, leap, bite a marine once midair (before falling), Then repeat 5 times for a level 3 armour marine??? All while not getting shot by his instakill shotgun???? Apparently so! :D
<!--quoteo(post=2004059:date=Nov 1 2012, 06:14 AM:name=turtleh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (turtleh @ Nov 1 2012, 06:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im not good with fade but the people that know how to play fade = OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with most of what you said, except this. Fade and Lerk need some love.
Not if they have shotguns/know you are there. A fade counters a Jet-packer who is 1 man rushing the hive, x jetpackers vs x fades... One marine death = 10 res lost and requires 4 fade swipes. One fade death = 50 res lost and requires 2 shotgun blasts.
<!--quoteo(post=2002605:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:10 PM:name=silveralen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (silveralen @ Oct 31 2012, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same thing on my end. Marines seem to kill skulks faster than skulks kill marines, yet skulks need to be closer to kill.
Someone mentioned something about the skulks bite having a fair bit of range to it, but with the complete lack of feedback for the skulk (at least I have no crosshair and no way to know how much range it is), it seems designed to be heinously difficult for new players.
I'm sure there are ways to improve on my end, it's just that, from my perspective, I seem to be doing things correctly then ending up dead anyways. Not sure what else I need to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to use your environment to your advantage as a skulk watch for weapon swaps/reloads which could completely change the outcome if you attack at the right time Hide in vents when a marine isn't facing you strike with a parasite to track him so you know where he is and where he is looking giving you the opening advantage or even try striking once and retreating to safety then waiting for the chance to strike again while he is weakened, This is not like a normal shooter.. you can't just directly engage in a fight 1v1 this is a team play game and because of the layout of the maps and the way the aliens work you will need to play to the advantage of your current life form.
The only reason marines are more user friendly is that people are used to using guns and there is no real change in the way you play as a marine when it comes to combat where as all the alien life forms have different playstyles
<!--quoteo(post=2004279:date=Nov 1 2012, 05:20 AM:name=KrustyKrogan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KrustyKrogan @ Nov 1 2012, 05:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This post, nail -> head. 100% agree
I actually think the Aliens are perfect - after a few hours of skulking its pretty clear you need to cause chaos in groups. Also the most fun!
The marines are totally OP.... The marine rifle may as well be a laser. Some kind of long burst accuracy decrease would be awesome. Once they have jetpacks and you're stuck with mostly skulks, forgetaboutit! Its easier to kill an Exo 1v1 than a marine with shotty + jetpack.
Am I really expect to climb a wall, leap, bite a marine once midair (before falling), Then repeat 5 times for a level 3 armour marine??? All while not getting shot by his instakill shotgun???? Apparently so! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they have 3 3 Marines and you lost AN onos or TWO and your team is low on rez, gg cause guess what. When you spawn as a skulk you are worthless. Like you said biting a marine FIVE times while he is flying around on the air with a one hit kill shottie ? Yeah... Thatll happen. And no I'm not saying a late game Alien should be able to kill a Jetpack Marine. But guess what without a shottie, that Marine effectively spent 10 Res for the ability to trash the crap out of MANY skulks. Meanwhile have fun saving up for 50 at a chance to kill him. Yes I'm exaggerating a little but fades and skulks need some love. Some hot sexy love.
Comments
3 out of the 5 lifeforms becoming irrelevant and useless 10 minutes into the game vs decent marines is poor game design and leads to boring play.
The only time aliens win vs full teched marines even with 3 hives and all upgrades is when they spam onos.
That is boring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't agree with that assessment, none of the lifeforms are ever useless. I rarely see Onos "spam", needing one or two of them in the endgame is not unreasonable. There are certainly more balance tweaks to be made, like reducing the emphasis on the comm dropping eggs, but the situation is not as dire as you guys are making it out to be.
I think Gl's are pretty nerfed as is they are not that hard to deal with on there own but most of the time if you are getting gl spammed you have lost the rt battle anyway because they can afford it.
The armories do heal armor but not right away they heal health first so my first tactic in any marine base as anything but onos is to go to the armory. 7 times out of 10 the person you just saw walk up to that armory is in real need of some tlc and will go down really quick. It also makes the marines go back to base for healing of the armor somewhere which means they aren't attacking just sitting there with a big bite me sign on there back. It's all about playing smart and seeing who is the most likely to die because as I said most the time that is the guy sitting with his face to the armory and his back to you.
The key to Alien victories is, and always has been, teamwork. Going along with this, you need to have good resource management. You need to stay alive longer in the earlier stages of the game so that you can upgrade to higher lifeforms before the Marine team gets too overwhelming. Too often I see people wasting res on going Lerk multiple times, dying, and being stuck as a skulk the rest of the game. Try saving your resources, and upgrading once your commander researches an ability such as Blink or Spores. Or just save up for Onos and destroy an entire side of the map.
Gorge and Onos are the only two useful lifeforms late game.
Skulks, Lerks, and Fades are the ones that drop off in usefulness. Those three do not bring the necessary tech from NS1 that lets the bring anything to the table during base sieges.
-Skulks succumb easily to grenade spam and the damage you do is minimal (unless the marines are blind to you). Going gorge and shooting bilebomb/healing the onos in the bases are 3x more effective than going in as a skulk.
-Lerks' trailing spores are suicidal to use and umbra is very meh. Instead of spending 30 resources, that's 3 times you could have gone gorge. Without primal scream, the real reason why you wanted one lerk during sieges, is not in the game.
-Fade. Armory healing armor ###### on Fades. 2 shotgun shells stops a fade dead in its tracks, literally. Save the 50 resources and go onos 25 resources later. Without acid rocket during sieges, they too bring nothing to the table.
<!--quoteo(post=2003018:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:50 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 31 2012, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't agree with that assessment, none of the lifeforms are ever useless. I rarely see Onos "spam", needing one or two of them in the endgame is not unreasonable. There are certainly more balance tweaks to be made, like reducing the emphasis on the comm dropping eggs, but the situation is not as dire as you guys are making it out to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Cause I've completely held out on 2 bases as the Aliens kept throwing 1-2 onos with fade and skulk support in a 8v8 game. The only time they finally got the base is when I told them to wait and bring in 4-5 onos and a few gorges.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You people cry too much. You know why skulks are weak? because they're the basic class for aliens. Why would you make them so strong that you wouldn't need to upgrade to Lerk, Fade, or Onos? The answer is you wouldn't because if you did no one would play this damn game.
The key to Alien victories is, and always has been, teamwork. Going along with this, you need to have good resource management. You need to stay alive longer in the earlier stages of the game <b>so that you can upgrade to higher lifeforms</b> before the Marine team gets too overwhelming. Too often I see people <b>wasting res on going Lerk multiple times</b>, dying, and being <b>stuck as a skulk the rest of the game</b>. Try saving your resources, and upgrading once your commander researches an ability such as Blink or Spores. <b>Or just save up for Onos and destroy an entire side of the map</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice. You just listed why alien game play is stale and boring.
And skulks being weak late game. Is that why lmg basic marines don't scale too? Since they're the basic unit.
Skulks, Lerks, and Fades are the ones that drop off in usefulness. Those three do not bring the necessary tech from NS1 that lets the bring anything to the table during base sieges.
-Skulks succumb easily to grenade spam and the damage you do is minimal (unless the marines are blind to you). Going gorge and shooting bilebomb/healing the onos in the bases are 3x more effective than going in as a skulk.
<i>This is true but at the same time if the marines have the res to do gl spam you are doing something wrong like now using the skulk to take out the rts 2-5 mins before hand when you saw they had such map control. They are also very useful in a mixed squad skulks running around an onos's feet can kill a lot of people and do a lot of unnoticed damage if they keep just moving. NEVER EVER STAND STILL as a skulk in a marine base you might as well get your headstone ready. </i>
-Lerks' trailing spores are suicidal to use and umbra is very meh. Instead of spending 30 resources, that's 3 times you could go gorge to be 2x more useful. Without primal scream, the real reason why lerks you wanted one lerk during sieges, is not here.
<i>This just isn't true if you have the right upgrades a lerk with celerity can fly through a base way faster than it can be shot as long as it does strafing runs just go through to the other side heal up and fly back across. If you are staying in the base you will die also late game if you are going in the base alone you will die this is true but umbra can help a rush like nothing else with onos</i>
-Fade. Armory healing armor ###### on Fades. 2 shotgun shells stops a fade dead in its tracks, literally. Save the 50 resources and go onos 25 resources later. Without acid rocket during sieges, they too bring nothing to the table.
<i>As a fade you should be doing hit and run this means 1-3 swipes per pass don't give them the chance to shoot you. Your job late game is harassment (keeping them tied up at base ie using the armory you hate so much instead of going out to kill rts and hives) and support like going in with an onos( when an onos is in the room you have pretty much free reign most marines will shoot the onos of course. </i>
Really? Cause I've completely held out on 2 bases as the Aliens kept throwing 1-2 onos with fade and skulk support in a 8v8 game. The only time they finally got the base is when I told them to wait and bring in 4-5 onos and a few gorges.
<i>This sounds like very late game/maxed out tech which would make since. If marines have 3-3 your lucky to be able to take on 3 more likely 2 or 1 marien. This is the end of the tech tree what do you expect an instant win onos or exo button? That wouldn't be balanced and I bet if you went with 3 onos 2 gorges they could have made it as long as the gorges kept the onos healed up for the initial assault and then turned to bile bomb. I see way to many times when gorges go in not healing but bombing and onos fall soon after. </i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not trying to start any fights of balance vs imbalance. I was just sharing my opinion and first impression.
I did admit I am a noob (obviously since I even thought leap did damage) but I am a person that plays at least 20 hours of games a week.
I will not argue any more on the forums about this, Me and my Ventrilo team have started playing this game. At "first look" if me and my team had the ability to play marines. There is NO WAY the aliens are going to win. Especially once we learn the maps and grow accustomed to alien movement and speed and learn a few tricks.
I'll start recording each game in a week or two and I will be surprised if I don't have 70% or more win rate with Marines and maybe a 60% or lower win rate as aliens.
Either way, have fun and I'll see you in game.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
I'm not trying to start any fights of balance vs imbalance. I was just sharing my opinion and first impression.
I did admit I am a noob (obviously since I even thought leap did damage) but I am a person that plays at least 20 hours of games a week.
I will not argue any more on the forums about this, Me and my Ventrilo team have started playing this game. At "first look" if me and my team had the ability to play marines. There is NO WAY the aliens are going to win. Especially once we learn the maps and grow accustomed to alien movement and speed and learn a few tricks.
I'll start recording each game in a week or two and I will be surprised if I don't have 70% or more win rate with Marines and maybe a 60% or lower win rate as aliens.
Either way, have fun and I'll see you in game.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would love to team up with you guys and give you some hints on alien play. If you are doing pub what you said I can totally believe because most new people have trouble grasping the alien play style at first not to mention if you are playing with friends you will communicate better and that is what really wins the matches. Oh BTW steam name is just MunchySnacks hope to see you ingame!
It's not hard to afford grenade launchers on 1-3 rts. In fact, the game I spoke of, we had only 3 rts and I was able to drop exosuits and grenade launchers left and right as a commander. But that's a symptom of a terrible mechanic allowed to go release. Those skulks are better going gorge. Sorry, but once the onos goes down due to lack of healing, the skulks are useless. Now your teammate is down 75 resources and your stuck doing nothing as skulks when a gorge would have kept the onos alive and able to continue wrecking the marine base.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This just isn't true if you have the right upgrades a lerk with celerity can fly through a base way faster than it can be shot as long as it does strafing runs just go through to the other side heal up and fly back across. If you are staying in the base you will die also late game if you are going in the base alone you will die this is true but umbra can help a rush like nothing else with onos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I still much rather have another gorge than a lerk. All it takes is one player with good aim holding a shotgun to nuke that lerk from the sky. I guess it's just a matter of personal opinion, but I strongly feel the lerks still have no place during sieges.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As a fade you should be doing hit and run this means 1-3 swipes per pass don't give them the chance to shoot you. Your job late game is harassment (keeping them tied up at base ie using the armory you hate so much instead of going out to kill rts and hives) and support like going in with an onos( when an onos is in the room you have pretty much free reign most marines will shoot the onos of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those 1-3 swipes per pass would be fantastic if armories didn't heal armor or it only took 2-3 swipes to kill an armor 3 marine. But since the armory does repair armor, you effective did nothing against that marine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This sounds like very late game/maxed out tech which would make since. If marines have 3-3 your lucky to be able to take on 3 more likely 2 or 1 marien. This is the end of the tech tree what do you expect an instant win onos or exo button? That wouldn't be balanced and I bet if you went with 3 onos 2 gorges they could have made it as long as the gorges kept the onos healed up for the initial assault and then turned to bile bomb. I see way to many times when gorges go in not healing but bombing and onos fall soon after.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off.
<i>I can't see this happening in anything other than a long drawn out pub game ie over 20-30 mins. And you are right about the onos if you read my previous post you should have seen that I was saying you need a balance you need a well rounded team that includes gorges, onos , skulks, fades and lerks. If you have in a typical 8v8 game 16 player late game you should have 2 onos, 2 gorges, 1 lerk, 1 fade 2 skulks for a rush and yes it really does take the whole team to do it flawlessly this isn't always possible however so most would drop the skulks and or lerk that doesn't mean that they can't be useful and really turn the tide. I have had many a game that the onos distracted while healed by the gorge and lerk and the skulks just killed the power. </i>
Sorry, I still much rather have another gorge than a lerk. All it takes is one player with good aim holding a shotgun to nuke that lerk from the sky. I guess it's just a matter of personal opinion, but I strongly feel the lerks still have no place during sieges.
<i>It takes at least 2 shotgun blast (not sure the exact number might be more) to kill a lerk but late game with umbra they can save a onos as much as a gorge can if they umbra the marines can't see through it unlike spores giving a chance to escape and or do major damage with alien vision. Lerks are super importent late game for keeping the mariens in base and just doing general harassment. </i>
Those 1-3 swipes per pass would be fantastic if armories didn't heal armor or it only took 2-3 swipes to kill an armor 3 marine. But since the armory does repair armor, you effective did nothing against that marine.
<i>For one I was talking late game here you can get away with more early game that is for sure. But the main point here is to keep the mariens on the defensive which is just worth soooo much. If you can keep them running around base trying to kill you. That is a win for aliens becuse you are making them take a defensive postiure letting you attack there rt's and cc's outside of there main base(maybe even drawing beacons from them that drain there res pool).</i>
It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off.
<i>This actually agrees with everything I said. In late game you have to have onos but a proper support team of other life forms is really important. You can get by with 5 onos and a couple of gorges no problem if you have the res but the team that plays together wins together. In competitive play you really need the whole mix of races not so much in pub as I said. </i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the first thing I taught to all my Alien rookies.
They became very competent skulks once this had
been demonstrated to them.
<!--quoteo(post=2003109:date=Oct 31 2012, 06:28 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 31 2012, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was, and I was on the marine side. I had to tell them to stop wasting resources on fade and lerk and save for onos. When they finally went in with 5 onos and a couple gorges, they managed to take down the base (not without losing a couple onos either). If it was just the 2 onos and a mix of fades and lerks, I can guarantee they wouldn't have finished us off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorges win games people.
We had a game we clawed back and could not beat marines out of Subaccess. (we had the rest of the map)
So I taught the people on my team how to gorge and we won eventually.
Only took us two onos (one was me and the other was a guy with a mic who was willing to learn and work as a team) and about 4-5 gorges healing and bilebombing from behind us! :D
Things to note about playing skulks:
-Try and make accurate bites. There are 3 hit cones with the most difficult having 100% dmg, the second 66% dmg and the last 33% dmg. This means 75/50/25 dmg per bite.
-An unupgraded marine takes just 2 full 75 dmg bites and 10 damage from anywhere, say, parasite. If a marine doesn't have any armour left, he will go down even quicker.
-When you jump down from a height, you gain speed. You will lose speed when you stay on the ground, but if you time the next jump just right and don't spend time on the floor, you get to keep that speed. You do have to go back to the walls again every once in a while though.
-You might want to have a slightly higher sensitivity for aliens. This can be done via mouse or bindings, like typing in console 'bind PageUp "setsensitivity 1.0"' and 'bind PageDown "setsensitivity 1.15"'
-Do not go straight along the floor or directly to the marines. Ground rocket skulks are cannon fodder. Use sideways movement and altitude changes to make the marines work much harder. That way he spends more ammo and you close in on a marine with an empty magazine.
-Try and use more teamwork. It doesn't come to the aliens as naturally but it is very necessary! Marines basically auto-teamwork compared to aliens due to phase gates and the ranged attackers ability to more easily support each other (by shooting at the teammates feet!). Aliens need to have a bit more teamwork. In competitive teams going in solo as a skulk is one of the worst things to do, and usually teams will group up and then say "go go go" and all go in as a group. Hard to pull off on publics, but a bit necessary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted for accuracy and importance.
Eh I don't know about that the gorge is 10 res heals, repairs armor, heal structures, builds structures, attacks structures, and is cute to boot! Seems pretty much the same since the alien com can drop eggs just like that marien com can drop armories. The downside or upside is the gorge is a player controlled character that can move about the map. Seems pretty fair to me.
An armory is not a player, don't even compare it to the Gorge. You have a limited number of players on your team, 12 tops and marines can have an unlimited number of armories. A player has to sacrifice combat effectiveness when going Gorge.
To drop eggs, the Alien comm needs a Shift hive (20 res), a Shift (10 res), and then eggs (1 res each). Shifts only replenish energy and do not heal aliens. Crags will heal aliens but then you need another hive and Crag hive research (40+20) and about 3-5 crags in order to be about 30% as effective as an armory (crags are 10 res each). Oh, and each Crag and Shift is much weaker than an armory.
I agree. Armory is too powerfull.. I mean common.. Marines spend 10 res and get hp, armor, weapons and ammo and they get them really quickly, while aliens have to spam atleast 3-5 crags and a shift and it sums to like 50 res~ Not to mention that crags heal really slow
Crags can heal faster... for a seconds... for about 3 res per crag.
Does crags also regen alien energy instanty back to full? because that would be equal of marines getting fully stocked ammo.
Nope. That's what Shifts are for.
Does crags also regen alien energy instanty back to full? because that would be equal of marines getting fully stocked ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In NS1 armories only healed health/restocked ammo and Marines had to weld eachother to restore armor (In NS2 we also have MACS for automatic welding). It worked well. Alien hit and run tactics worked in NS1 because, while marines could heal at the armory or get a medpack from the commander, they could not get armor back without welders.
Shifts restore Alien energy very fast while the Aliens are near them. Crags heal nearby Aliens, and VERY VERY slowly. It takes 3-5 crags (Crags are 10 res each) to even get close to the amount armories heal.
Please understand the game fully before claiming anything. There are so many little things on skulk (walljump, ceiling drop, abusing bad animations, timing bites, game smarts, teamwork, understanding how to abuse the netcode, feigns with team mates, drawing fire, counting bullets) that can even the score. This applies to every class on Aliens
Please realise that their are marines/aliens running around with 10 years of NS1 experience and they have played hundreds/thousands of hours of NS2 beta. <b>The game is imbalanced, but only at a top level. </b> If you're a good player, you will beat 99% of players as aliens or mariens.
FYI: Asymmetrical games are never truely balanced. You also have evolving meta games which can completely change everything ( see sc:bw when vulture mines + seige tanks started countering speedlots/dragoons or muta stacking)
ONOS train LOL = massive death to ameri..rines
There is not problem with balance. You know what there is a problem with? ###### FRAMERATE.
Same 74-3 as skulk. All newbies though.
<!--quoteo(post=2002940:date=Oct 31 2012, 10:10 AM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Oct 31 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.............You cant balance a game around pros only who have played this game 1000 hours.
imagine if Starcraft 2 was only balanced for the best of the best.
There is something wrong with game balance, when new players can go in a own as marines, but you should read these 100 page on tips and stuff before playing alien and being mediocre at it.
marines it just aim and pull the trigger, no recoil. and jump around like a madman helps ofcourse.
Like it or not the aliens are gonna get buffed heavily in the coming weeks, and Marines are getting nerfed. There has to be a balance for public and then for Pro's.
Also how is a new player going to learn being a commander?, sitting around watching youtube videos and reading about it does not pro player make. Its the same problem in battlefield 3, dont you dare flying a ###### air craft if your................ etc etc<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually think the Aliens are perfect - after a few hours of skulking its pretty clear you need to cause chaos in groups. Also the most fun!
The marines are totally OP.... The marine rifle may as well be a laser. Some kind of long burst accuracy decrease would be awesome. Once they have jetpacks and you're stuck with mostly skulks, forgetaboutit! Its easier to kill an Exo 1v1 than a marine with shotty + jetpack.
Am I really expect to climb a wall, leap, bite a marine once midair (before falling), Then repeat 5 times for a level 3 armour marine??? All while not getting shot by his instakill shotgun???? Apparently so! :D
I agree with most of what you said, except this.
Fade and Lerk need some love.
<!--quoteo(post=2004409:date=Nov 1 2012, 02:02 PM:name=spaceturtle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spaceturtle @ Nov 1 2012, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fades counter jps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not if they have shotguns/know you are there.
A fade counters a Jet-packer who is 1 man rushing the hive,
x jetpackers vs x fades...
One marine death = 10 res lost and requires 4 fade swipes.
One fade death = 50 res lost and requires 2 shotgun blasts.
Someone mentioned something about the skulks bite having a fair bit of range to it, but with the complete lack of feedback for the skulk (at least I have no crosshair and no way to know how much range it is), it seems designed to be heinously difficult for new players.
I'm sure there are ways to improve on my end, it's just that, from my perspective, I seem to be doing things correctly then ending up dead anyways. Not sure what else I need to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to use your environment to your advantage as a skulk watch for weapon swaps/reloads which could completely change the outcome if you attack at the right time
Hide in vents when a marine isn't facing you strike with a parasite to track him so you know where he is and where he is looking giving you the opening advantage or even try striking once and retreating to safety then waiting for the chance to strike again while he is weakened, This is not like a normal shooter.. you can't just directly engage in a fight 1v1 this is a team play game and because of the layout of the maps and the way the aliens work you will need to play to the advantage of your current life form.
The only reason marines are more user friendly is that people are used to using guns and there is no real change in the way you play as a marine when it comes to combat where as all the alien life forms have different playstyles
I actually think the Aliens are perfect - after a few hours of skulking its pretty clear you need to cause chaos in groups. Also the most fun!
The marines are totally OP.... The marine rifle may as well be a laser. Some kind of long burst accuracy decrease would be awesome. Once they have jetpacks and you're stuck with mostly skulks, forgetaboutit! Its easier to kill an Exo 1v1 than a marine with shotty + jetpack.
Am I really expect to climb a wall, leap, bite a marine once midair (before falling), Then repeat 5 times for a level 3 armour marine??? All while not getting shot by his instakill shotgun???? Apparently so! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they have 3 3 Marines and you lost AN onos or TWO and your team is low on rez, gg cause guess what. When you spawn as a skulk you are worthless. Like you said biting a marine FIVE times while he is flying around on the air with a one hit kill shottie ? Yeah... Thatll happen. And no I'm not saying a late game Alien should be able to kill a Jetpack Marine. But guess what without a shottie, that Marine effectively spent 10 Res for the ability to trash the crap out of MANY skulks. Meanwhile have fun saving up for 50 at a chance to kill him. Yes I'm exaggerating a little but fades and skulks need some love. Some hot sexy love.