Dual Exo needs some nerf-age: Buff Bile Bomb!

2

Comments

  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    MAC's heal pathetically, die to one bilebomb and cost 5 res...
    Nuff said.
  • BrainmaggotBrainmaggot Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157535Members
    I'm sorry mango but those gorges couldn't play and/or wasn't supported.

    If you had gorges with bilebomb, MACs are essentially hard countered, if it doesn't happen, blame yourself.

    Hamlet was spot on.
    I have no idea how this thread is still going, everything was shut down on page 1 pretty much.
    Exos are not super powerful. In fact, they're survivability is a joke without very good teamwork.
    Very good teamwork should win games.
  • SixtyWattManSixtyWattMan Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31404Members
    IMO the Exo is one of the more balanced units in the game.
  • azurescorchazurescorch Join Date: 2012-09-29 Member: 161030Members, Reinforced - Silver
    Dual Exos will melt like butter in a fire without an escort, force a beacon if possible.

    <!--quoteo(post=2004286:date=Nov 1 2012, 12:24 PM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Nov 1 2012, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want a "I can win" button because I can't stomp the whole alien team and build structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No.
  • LUSITANERLUSITANER Join Date: 2010-09-19 Member: 74086Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2004541:date=Nov 1 2012, 03:27 PM:name=azurescorch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azurescorch @ Nov 1 2012, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dual Exos will melt like butter in a fire without an escort, force a beacon if possible.


    No.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your stupid fake quote got reported. Cant we get serious people in this forum for once? Atleast have some kind of intelligence before even kidding around? Id like to know where you got that pretty inspiring thing of i can win button, since the exo is on the entire opposite
  • upperdemoonupperdemoon Join Date: 2012-10-22 Member: 163147Members
    Well ofcourse they had won, they worked togheter! I played as aliens 1 time and we took down 2 dual minigun exo's with teamwork and we only had 1 loss... Work togheter to take the enemy down, this isn't CoD
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Meta post: In this thread: people complaining that both EXOs and Onos are OP.

    >.<



    I'll just say I agree with Talesin's analysis.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    edited November 2012
    Dual Exo is fine as it is imo. Of course it's gonna be hard to take one down, they do cost 75 res. But even then they're still very vulnerable. I can do heaps of damage to them as a lone skulk. Probably more damage than a lone onos. Anyway, they need back-up in the form of welders to be effective. And when they have that back-up, aliens will need equally good teamwork to counter.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Trust me, exos suck.

    Wait 2-3 weeks until people know what they're doing and you'll rarely see exos mowing through things the way you see them now. It's actually really really hard to make them work if the alien team is decent.
  • AlregardAlregard Join Date: 2012-08-30 Member: 156903Members
    In public, exos only win games when rines were winning anyway. Otherwise, they wont win you games when you as marine were losing all the time. Calling Exos op is funny. Play more and maybe you will realise it yourelf =).
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2004226:date=Nov 1 2012, 12:36 PM:name=SteelRodent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelRodent @ Nov 1 2012, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've seen a dual exo getting flat-out rammed by no less then 2 Onos, but because he was backed up by 2 MACs and 2 marines with welders he was healing faster than they could hurt him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Shh, I tell tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone else! You have to kill the macs and marines, or keep them busy to take out the exo easily
  • rastignacrastignac Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164766Members
    Funnily I find that Bile bomb needs much more nerf-age than the Exos. They can safely wreck any structure, and a few can pin down defending marines. Look at gorge rushes...
  • azurescorchazurescorch Join Date: 2012-09-29 Member: 161030Members, Reinforced - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=2004571:date=Nov 1 2012, 03:44 PM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Nov 1 2012, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your stupid fake quote got reported. Can't we get serious people in this forum for once? At least have some kind of intelligence before even kidding around? I#d like to know where you got that pretty inspiring thing of I can win button, since the exo is on the entire opposite<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because all your "negative points about the exo" would make it over powered if they were to be "fixed". The exo is fine, it is powerful with an escort, and without one it is not.
    I've never, ever, had a problem killing a single skulk as an exo, but then again I don't go off to play rambo in one. The exo is probably one of the most balanced units in the game.

    Also it was quite obvious from my "stupid fake quote" I was making mockery of your original comment, which I did pretty much because I found your thoughts to be so damn ludicrous. I simply summarized your post up with a few words.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    Bilebomb is already really powerful, I would actually say that it's a bit OP because of the dmg over time effect.
    The way you engage is everything, I once owned 7 exo's rushing a hive, with a single onos.
    Skulks and gorges were backing me up, but I did the most damage to the exos in that encounter.
    Using cover as onos vs exo is essential, this is a melee vs ranged game. It's the same thing with skulk vs rifle.
    If a gorge is bilebombing the exo while other aliens are attacking, you will do so much more damage, as they will most likely shoot the other aliens first.
    Succeeding in this game depends on your teams coordination and skill.
  • Cr4zyb4st4rdCr4zyb4st4rd United Kingdom Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155200Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    You know what exos need?

    Team work, not buffs.

    One exo and some healers can easily take out a hive, especially with some nade launcher support shooting the exo occasionally.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2004317:date=Nov 1 2012, 12:50 PM:name=LUSITANER)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Nov 1 2012, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Devs - Nerf Exo I cant kill it.
    Mods - Ban Azurescorch I cant debate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lolz...

    Exo is balanced, its the same as when your an onos...
    You just need to value your own life.
  • GorgenapperGorgenapper Join Date: 2012-09-05 Member: 157916Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    From the perspective of a new player on Aliens, exos seem OP.

    But from my perspective as a long time NS player, exo trains are a significant commitment that don't really need to be confronted head-on. Onos are the equivalent of an exo, but they differ in that they have significantly more health and armor, they can be quickly healed up by gorges/crags/hives even on the move, and they are FAST when charge is used to close the distance. A frontal approach on an exo train is suicidal, so why do it? Go around the exos, hit a tech point with all that onos muscle. Beacons are not very effective if the marine team has too many exos, and leaving the exos without welder support just means that they're sitting ducks waiting to be killed.

    If you really want to kill the exos 'head-on', then use teamwork to get gorges to bile them, lerks to gas the welder marines and spike the slow-moving exos from a distance, skulks and fades to do hit-and-runs on them, and lure them to a place where the onos can jump them from around a corner.

    Exos are only extremely powerful when backed up by welder support, and only if those welders get regular medpacks and weld each other. I feel that good JP marines with assault rifles, shotguns and grenades are a better investment because they can all fly in, blast down a hive and get beaconed to safety for resupply.
  • pvthochpvthoch Join Date: 2012-03-28 Member: 149528Members
    shut up with the nerf crap learn to play like the other dude said learn to teamplay and counter this is rock paper and scissors oh an by the way i can beat the ###### out of a exo 1 v 1 as a skulk
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members
    Exos are very vulnerable in a way the Onos is not.

    They cannot move quickly like the onos, or disable the enemy with a stomp-like manoeuvre.

    With bilebomb you can easily damage the exo without it being able to shoot you back.

    No changes needed to any of those things.
  • upperdemoonupperdemoon Join Date: 2012-10-22 Member: 163147Members
    So wait, Azureschorch fake quoted something? what happened? Let's solve this as civilized man *takes his gun* alrighty, tell me what happened?

    (gun was a joke, but the other parts are true, what happened and maybe we can come out of this?)
  • Jonp_11Jonp_11 Join Date: 2003-08-24 Member: 20161Members
    The situation you are describing is countered MUCH better when people know what's going on. It's pretty hard to look at a game played by many new players and try to balance around that. Exo's are surprisingly easy to take out if the Alien team is running a pack and really working together and using their mobility.

    I agree Bile Bomb could maybe use a small buff vs Exo's, either slow down or obstruct view both seem great and could easily be tweaked for balance.
  • LUSITANERLUSITANER Join Date: 2010-09-19 Member: 74086Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2004910:date=Nov 1 2012, 07:06 PM:name=upperdemoon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (upperdemoon @ Nov 1 2012, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So wait, Azureschorch fake quoted something? what happened? Let's solve this as civilized man *takes his gun* alrighty, tell me what happened?

    (gun was a joke, but the other parts are true, what happened and maybe we can come out of this?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Go back to page 2... if this really gets into a trend, forums worldwide will even stop making sense.... it will be just everyone changing others' words instead of actually debating. Thats why it goes agains the "core of a Forum".
  • therake6therake6 Join Date: 2011-12-04 Member: 136544Members
    I'm fine with Exos. It takes like maybe 2 skulks to kill one if they stay on the move and get it in a bottle neck. However an Onos with stop can probably take out like 3-4 marines. I think that Oni and Exo's are really just support classes and should probably not be used by anyone who isn't willing to travel with buddies.

    The only time I consider the Exo OP is a 1v1 vs an Onos. But that's kind of a given because of the slow movement of an Onos and the melee only attacks.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><b>*NUKED.*</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

    I will remind board members that direct attacks/insulting other forum members is NOT permitted on these boards.
    Snipped away a nice little flame-war that started up. Keep it civil, people.
  • LUSITANERLUSITANER Join Date: 2010-09-19 Member: 74086Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2004950:date=Nov 1 2012, 07:31 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ Nov 1 2012, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004950"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--><b>*NUKED.*</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

    I will remind board members that direct attacks/insulting other forum members is NOT permitted on these boards.
    Snipped away a nice little flame-war that started up. Keep it civil, people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nice, finally
  • GodofThunderGodofThunder Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
    edited November 2012
    Lusit im not attacking you but you have really missed a point, and its a point alot of new player's are struggling to come to grips with.

    <!--quoteo(post=2004226:date=Nov 1 2012, 11:36 PM:name=SteelRodent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelRodent @ Nov 1 2012, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That said, dual-minigun exos ruin everything.
    All the Marines really need is one exo with maybe 3 MACs (the little cute flying repair bots) and maybe 2 marines with welders; nothing the Kharaa have can touch it.
    The ordinary exo is balanced: the single minigun overheats if you try and spray a horde of angry skulks with it. Dual exos dont have that problem, because 2 miniguns melt anything long before they even get close.
    I've seen a dual exo getting flat-out rammed by no less then 2 Onos, but because he was backed up by 2 MACs and 2 marines with welders he was healing faster than they could hurt him.
    And god help you if you dont have any Onos, because thats the only alien that can even dent it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You said it was rammed by no less than 2 onos. That doesnt actually mean ANYTHING without gorge support. You could throw 5 Onos at 2 exos with enough support and the exos would still win(well maybe 3 exos). You even said that yourself, they can heal faster than an Onos can damage them. Thats the point. The healer's MUST be taken out first. You can throw anything under the sun at an exo but if the healer's arent taken out you will lose. (New players note) YOU WILL LOSE if the healer's arent taken down. This is where gorge really comes into his role. Gorge does the highest damage to an EXO, AND also takes out MAC's quickly. Double whammy. The Onos has the primary role of soaking up the bullets, and disabling marines with stomp. Hes not the damage dealer.

    This is by no means an easy thing to do, but it is what player's need to learn to do IF they want to take a exo train head on.

    <!--quoteo(post=2004307:date=Nov 2 2012, 12:40 AM:name=SteelRodent)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelRodent @ Nov 2 2012, 12:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2004307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your entire strategy is flawed because the marines are infinitely replaceable, whereas the Kharaa are not. Those oh-so-neat upgrades and classes that I clearly havent noticed because I'm obviously a "unsocial, uncooperative, mute, deaf and selfish player" dont count for crap if your initial assault on the exo force fails. There go all those hard-earned resources, and the Exo just killed the hive you were defending so no more upgrades.
    You can't "go somewhere else" because you can't afford to lose the hive, and as you say, teamwork is required to kill an exo group. If half the team scatters off around the map killing power nodes, that exo is going to happily stomp all over the map, killing off your hives.

    But wait, that force that went off to kill power nodes? They cant do crap either, because THEY DONT HAVE ANY UPGRADES. They'll get so far, run into the fortified bases around the 2 spots on the map the Marines need, wipe on the sentries, and respawn just in time to get stepped on by the Exo, which by this point probably has a friend or two.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What the other vets were trying to say is there is 3 ways to beat EXO train

    1-Do not let marines hold enough tech points early on to let them get EXO's. They do require alot of resources to get and can be done by marines simply camping 4-5 res towers. So aliens really need to keep the pressure on.

    2-Take down the enemy CC at the same time they are attacking yours. This strategy is not flawed as you say. Its a sacrificing manouvre which you will see even happens in pro games. There is a mad rush to see who kills the other teams command center or hive first. EXO's take a LONG TIME to walk to a hive. If your team can spot it early and you know you dont have the right setup to beat the EXO train head on, aliens can choose to rush the marine bases BEFORE the EXOS get to your hives. You may even lose your upgrades, but if you take down their CC's you win, it doesnt matter what you lose, you still win.

    3-Do what I stated above. What ever combo you want to use to take on a EXO train, you NEED gorges and you generally need the rest of your team to distract them. It will cost the marines dearly if they lose their EXO train.

    These are not new strategies, but most new player's dont know them, OR more importantly how to execute them. Until player's learn how to play aliens better as a team and skill wise, you will see marines generally winning and exo trains kicking arse, just give aliens time to find their groove.

    And please be a little less abusive, it really doesn't help. Like I said im just trying to answer your query not attack you.
  • ChickenOfWarChickenOfWar Join Date: 2003-04-09 Member: 15352Members
    5 onos would beat two exos every time. I think each onos hit is 100 damage and exos with armor 3 have 570 health. Onos beat exos every time. Throw in enzyme from the drifter and those exos are dying nearly twice as fast.
  • dethovudethovu Join Date: 2009-06-23 Member: 67906Members
    Dualies are fine. It begs for the other team to coordinate an attack. And when they do, the Marines have a challenge on their hands to keep the Exos from exploding.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    edited November 2012
    The match up between an exo and an onos seems to depend far more on the map and the terrain at the point of engagement than anything else. Even two exos can't kill an onos before getting gored down if the onos stuns supporting marines first and has equivalent team support and a good ambush point.

    Long corridor or big open room? Yeah, they can be difficult in those situations. Try to avoid those situations.

    Often the best counter to a group of one to three exos with supporting light marines is to counter attack a valuable marine base (e.g., the one with all the tech) and force a distress beacon. Immediately retreat and kill the exos that are now overextended and without support. Obviously this won't work if the entire marine team has a dual minigun exo, but if that happened you probably made a lot of mistakes earlier in the game and ought to be at that much of a disadvantage by then.

    Also: bear in mind that commanding as the alien commander is quite a bit more counter-intuitive than as a marine, and there's a lot of cool stuff you can do as the alien commander to support your team that doesn't get used very often on public servers yet. Good use of drifter buffing can make an ambush on an exo train absolutely lethal, as can a well-placed bone wall to split it in half.

    The biggest point I think people need to remember is that if the other team has better tech than you it's probably because you screwed up in the early and mid-game. This is a bit of a tired refrain for many but it bears repeating: NS is as much RTS as FPS, and failures early on have to be punished for the RTS element to be relevant. Sometimes you aren't supposed to make a comeback. Sometimes the game just needs to end, and the enemy team be rewarded with their victory. To that end I can see some marine tech loss at the loss of their second chair being a good idea (to bring it to equivalence with the pretty hefty tech loss suffered by aliens for losing a tech point) - but for all I know that's been tried already as I didn't play the beta very much. Marine holdout/comeback potential is definitely far higher than that of aliens, although I'd say almost all of the time these situations result in more of a drawn-out but eventual loss rather than an actual comeback victory. Some people find that fun and some people don't; I can see both sides of the argument so I don't feel like expanding upon it further, though.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2005954:date=Nov 2 2012, 06:31 AM:name=Narfwak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Narfwak @ Nov 2 2012, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2005954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The biggest point I think people need to remember is that if the other team has better tech than you it's probably because you screwed up in the early and mid-game. This is a bit of a tired refrain for many but it bears repeating: NS is as much RTS as FPS, and failures early on have to be punished for the RTS element to be relevant. Sometimes you aren't supposed to make a comeback. Sometimes the game just needs to end, and the enemy team be rewarded with their victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You say that like anything you just mentioned is in any way a good thing.

    I don't play RTS games because having specific build orders and having to do certain things within certain timings or you'll lose 15 minutes later isn't my idea of fun. In fact, that's why I consider multiplayer RTS to be one of the most pathetic forms of video gaming only played by pathetic, pedantic nerds.

    One of the most common complaints I saw about NS1 was how easy it was to landslide a victory. If skulks got a good rush in the beginning, it was GG. If marines got too many aliens and the Gorge, it was GG. The game was commonly criticized for how the outcome was decided in the first 5-10 minutes of gameplay. So why would anyone want that back?
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