Early game rushing is not fun

spaceturtlespaceturtle Join Date: 2012-08-03 Member: 154714Members
in NS2 General Discussion
So many times the game is over before it even begins. Game begins, marines head out, then 5 skulks show up and the CC is down before you can even have an observatory up or beacon. Literally the CC is destroyed before the beacon can complete. This is not fun and I am wondering what the counter is.. Are CCs/Hives too vulnerable early game?
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Comments

  • DarkScytheDarkScythe Join Date: 2012-08-30 Member: 156876Members
    The counter is...to have a guy or two defend base for the first few minutes. Or have a group scouting in advance and calling a baserush so the rest of the team can run back to base.
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  • ScubboScubbo Join Date: 2012-10-03 Member: 161364Members
    you can do this to aliens also, but stop them from spawning entirely by popping their weak slow spawning eggs around the hive -- no eggs = no spawns for aliens
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  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    Yea, a good commander wouldn't let that happen (you should never have the entire team go down one side of the map with the other side entirely open) or will make sure the observatory is up and running (beacon!!) before all the marines leave the base.

    Usually I have to beg my marines to leave the base, as often there's 4+ just standing around building things when I really just need 1 or 2 at the most. Also, the commander is a player too when the going gets though, don't forget that. A good commander on either side will jump out to help defend if need be. (Though as marine commander it's essential you do this only when you have backup and it's a small group of skulks, jumping out of the comm chair to defend all by yourself vs multiple skulks is a good way to lose your base lol)
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  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    edited October 2012
    Players who react immediately on the phrase:

    "BASE BEING RUSHED, GET BACK!"

    That should be all. Easy skulk baserushes were in the game 1 year ago or so. Today it should be possible to manage that. Give the new players time to learn what's important.
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  • Skyforger2Skyforger2 Join Date: 2007-10-19 Member: 62681Members
    I wonder if there where similar threads in ns1 section when ns1 was a new game.
    Skulk rushes where so common in ns1 as u always knew where the base is.

    And i don't think there where any post like this, i think nowadays player mentality is to complain all the time about anything.
    Old school gamers just accepted the game as it was.
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  • TimmahIsASaintTimmahIsASaint Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
    Its a strat that doesn't have much of a cost on Aliens because behind it they can be getting RTS, expanding, and putting up cysts. Where as Marines really can't just rush or they lose out on a lot of resources. As far as defending it, get your com out of chair, and run back to base. If you don't see any skulks when you know you should, assume they rushed and go back.
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  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I would argue spawn times and less or no eggs is quite a punishment for aliens trying risky strats like base rushes at the start of the game tbh. Also, that's less marine RTs and marines in general being contested out on the field, and no one defending fragile alien structures.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    Yep, this is a player inexperience issue. If you leave your base unguarded, it will be susceptible to an early rush. 1-2 marines in base to build up tech, two groups of the remaining to be scouting areas and taking forward positions is really the way to go. Use hotkeyed groups, Comms.

    Oh, and the Comm needs to pop out of the chair to help defend the base, not just sit inside while the builders/base defenders are getting killed, screaming for the fireteams to come back.

    Honestly, if anything the Kharaa are a lot more open to being early-rushed as they have an egg-limited spawn rate, whereas Marines can parallelize spawns by just building more IPs. Good base design is also important... dumping everything in the middle of the room? Bad idea. Take a tip from NS1 and build IPs in the middle of the room, and everything else along the walls to keep the lines of fire clear. Building non-essentials mid-room just gives Skulks more cover.
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  • awwwsnapawwwsnap Join Date: 2012-09-20 Member: 160066Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2003829:date=Oct 31 2012, 06:04 PM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Oct 31 2012, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a strat that doesn't have much of a cost on Aliens because behind it they can be getting RTS, expanding, and putting up cysts. Where as Marines really can't just rush or they lose out on a lot of resources. As far as defending it, get your com out of chair, and run back to base. If you don't see any skulks when you know you should, assume they rushed and go back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is so wrong. Marines are actually better at rushing the hives than aliens are at rushing the comm chair. One marine can egglock the hive while the rest of the marines knife the hive to death. It's actually too easy for marines earlygame.
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  • GISPGISP Battle Gorge Denmark Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
    Early mines and 1-2 marines are enough to hold of a rush.
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  • GuspazGuspaz Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2862Members, Constellation
    In the NS1 days, both when I was playing competitively and in community games like on Lunixmonster, it was standard procedure for one or two marines to be assigned to base defence and construction at the beginning of the game. Later on you could throw up some mines and some turrets or an obs and get the whole marine team moving, since the turrets would at least buy a bunch of time, or the obs could beacon.

    Basically, if a skulk rush succeeds, it's either because your comm/team is doing it wrong, or because you took a gamble that leaving the base undefended would let you pull off some other early strategy that needed the extra manpower (which is why you tend to see the occasional skulk rush work in competitive NS2).
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  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    Getting killed by a rush isn't fun in Starcraft either.

    Still, gotta communicate well, have some marines hang back, strategize.
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  • RobustPenguinRobustPenguin Join Date: 2012-08-17 Member: 155719Members
    Teamwork is a simple key to this, you can build an observatory in a good 10 seconds and you can hear skulks a mile off. Either your guys will be close enough to base to fight them off, or far enough away to give advanced warning via sound, or they just lost the fight. In which case it goes both ways if marines rush aliens spawn.
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  • n1mn1m Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165101Members
    its just a mix of a bad com and players..
    com should know waht to drop first everytime and at east one marine should stay behind to build it...
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