<!--quoteo(post=2006630:date=Nov 2 2012, 07:45 AM:name=Shaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shaker @ Nov 2 2012, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing is for sure, new players will be much better at marines since we've been playing shooters for a very long time. Aliens, however, actually have the advantage in the game right now. It takes a lot of time to master the movement, but you will get better and see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why dont give the alien race a basic class, which the new gamers coul use as a basic to learn the alien movement and other classes?
Look at this. A marine Plyer has theo complete game time to learn how to play as a marine.Cause his role never change. The alien only has a few minutes good gameply with skulk as a beginner. Then he will be punished for the es of the game.
Ok toher iea why dont put ingametutorials in there? A levl with ki, some standig still, tohr walkling and avoid attacks, and the lst group act like normal marines? To learn the basics of the gameplay?
I must say i looked a lot of videos over the skulk. i now hwo to move on walls, i know how to sneak, i know ho to ambush. but what no video can tell me is the movement in combat. I ambush an enemy, got on it, take the first bite and then the marine jump and jump and jump again. i i complete lose the overview.I runnnig in circles searching the enym who still jumping around me and shooting me and then im dead.
There ar for me just a few minutes i have a chance to success (when i only need 3 perfekt bites to kill) when marines got there upgrades, i die trying 90% of time and when the aliens get flametrowhers, granades and jumpsets, there is no chance.
And the complete alien fraction can only exist if every player can drive this skulk perfect and use perfect teamwork.
All i want is a starter alien which is not that special. Mayby a Lerk with the abbility of moving walls like the skulk. Something usefull when the end is near.
<!--quoteo(post=2006662:date=Nov 2 2012, 07:59 AM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Nov 2 2012, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't want skulks to be obsolete in combat late game. A way to counter GL corner spam. A decent soft counter to shotgun.
That's my only gripes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats also a big problem. skulks are obsolete in combat late game. Skulks are the only Alien you can use if it turns bad. Find the fault. :D
<!--quoteo(post=2006536:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines dont need teamwork and communication.
The computer take all points of conversation, mostly (build this here). As a marine player i never must say a word or post something. Only looking on map and go there where the action is.
And which teamwork? There is noc place for temwork. If you got the repair tool, you can repair the armor of the other. That was it. The rest, stay by the other and shot everything dont need teamwork. Its the same teamwork as in COD. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're new, and so far i bet you have only fought against other people, who are new. So your ignorance is understandable though it is still ignorance. When the rest of the new people catch up to us vets who have been playing the game for 2 years and when people learn to correctly play Aliens and you see fades go on 50-1 killing sprees you will understand what i mean when i say teamwork and communication is required.
If you truly think "There is no place for teamwork" then you are either blind or dumb.
<!--quoteo(post=2006536:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Than tell me, how can i use skulks to fight a buble of 5 Marines? You got a Group of 5 Marines walking as a Bubble towards your hive. And you have 5 Skulks. What do you do? And the Marines will allwaya stay in the bubble and walk forward.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Work with another skulk and learn to do the 3 things i said earlier
<!--quoteo(post=2006570:date=Nov 2 2012, 07:12 AM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then please help me to unerstand.
How can i defend a hive against a bubble of 4-5 Marines or 3-4 marines and an Exco only with the same number of Skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game is about resources and map control. If you are not able to expand to a second hive and gain more harvesters then you will get smoked. Exos are not that hard to take down if you're working together. Get someone to go gorge and bile bomb the exo while you chomp it down. Have a fade kill the marines welding it. The name of the game is teamwork.
<!--quoteo(post=2006677:date=Nov 2 2012, 12:07 PM:name=Xostean)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xostean @ Nov 2 2012, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So your ignorance is understandable though it is still ignorance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when is ignorance ever understandable? Being new has nothing to do with ignorance. Having an ignorant nature to begin with has everything to do with ignorance.
<!--quoteo(post=2006661:date=Nov 2 2012, 11:58 AM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 11:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So why dont give the alien race a basic class, which the new gamers coul use as a basic to learn the alien movement and other classes?
Look at this. A marine Plyer has theo complete game time to learn how to play as a marine.Cause his role never change. The alien only has a few minutes good gameply with skulk as a beginner. Then he will be punished for the es of the game.
Ok toher iea why dont put ingametutorials in there? A levl with ki, some standig still, tohr walkling and avoid attacks, and the lst group act like normal marines? To learn the basics of the gameplay?
I must say i looked a lot of videos over the skulk. i now hwo to move on walls, i know how to sneak, i know ho to ambush. but what no video can tell me is the movement in combat. I ambush an enemy, got on it, take the first bite and then the marine jump and jump and jump again. i i complete lose the overview.I runnnig in circles searching the enym who still jumping around me and shooting me and then im dead.
There ar for me just a few minutes i have a chance to success (when i only need 3 perfekt bites to kill) when marines got there upgrades, i die trying 90% of time and when the aliens get flametrowhers, granades and jumpsets, there is no chance.
And the complete alien fraction can only exist if every player can drive this skulk perfect and use perfect teamwork.
All i want is a starter alien which is not that special. Mayby a Lerk with the abbility of moving walls like the skulk. Something usefull when the end is near.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ugh, I don't know why I am even bothering to reply to this but here goes.
All alien movement is different - you can't have a basic class that teaches all of the movement. This has always been the problem with NS, it doesn't have a learning curve, it has a learning cliff. It takes a lot of time to climb that initial cliff, and then you will hit the actual curve of getting better. If you are losing to 3 bite marines 90% of the time, then you are engaging them at bad times, in bad places and from bad angles. A 3 bite marine means he has 0 armor. At this point int he game you should have at least 1 upgrade and skulks have the -advantage-. I am sorry, but this is all purely an experience issue.
Then you complain about late game skulks with no upgrades against fully upgraded marines. If you have lost leap, you have lost the game.
Larksis actually hits the nail on the head with his analysis, it's just that the solutions he puts forward aren't very good ones. As it stands, the marine skill floor is much much lower than the alien one, as a result a brand new NS 2 player is going to be much better at doing his job as a marine than as a skulk. Not only that, the actual skill ceiling for skulks is also lower, which means even if you finally end up mastering the skulk, you're still going to get beat hands down by a really good marine.
What they should do is make the skulk model smaller, like in NS1, so it's not as incredibly easy as it is currently to hit skulks. (This heightens the marine skill floor)
I got this time a match as Alien with a really good commander. In the end we fight in defence against 3 xenos + repair bots + inf with a few gorges (billbomb) a few skulks and me as a leark. Worked really good in this place and this all with Tier 1 Aliens. I see i have a lot more to learn. :D
<!--quoteo(post=2006869:date=Nov 2 2012, 12:50 PM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006869"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok lets close it.
I got this time a match as Alien with a really good commander. In the end we fight in defence against 3 xenos + repair bots + inf with a few gorges (billbomb) a few skulks and me as a leark. Worked really good in this place and this all with Tier 1 Aliens. I see i have a lot more to learn. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad you see you are getting the hang of it.
Aliens are all classes, so you need to learn what you are good at doing and what not, what your allies are good and what not, and then support eachother based on the synergy. So fades kill the normal marines. Gorges bile the exo and macs. Lerks gas to provide cover, for skulks who can either attempt to swarm the exo (you are free, after all) or kill the welders. Onos can go take the exosuit headon, and with support can do so even with a long charge first.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
to open here I'll say I only read the first page, but I are two problems here.
A) you're unfamiliar and unskilled with the skulk because you're new. It's tough so it will take time to master its intricacies, but the glancing blow system was added specifically to help new players with this.
B) you keep saying 4-5 Maine's can't be stopped, but it seems the problem isn't the skulk or your skill. It's the lack of teamwork on your team. 5 marines against 5 skulks in a coordinated ambush won't end quite as badly as you're suggesting. anytime the other team can coordinate like that I would expect them to have the upper hand and how can you expect to fight back without coordinating yourself?
If you're new to the skulk then you could start with the approach with just getting up in the ceiling somewhere and wait for a marine to pass, and then attack from the rear :) Just don't attack when there's two of them, unless you have backup ofcourse :)
<!--quoteo(post=2006823:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:19 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 2 2012, 10:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What they should do is make the skulk model smaller, like in NS1, so it's not as incredibly easy as it is currently to hit skulks. (This heightens the marine skill floor)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
So why dont give the alien race a basic class, which the new gamers coul use as a basic to learn the alien movement and other classes?
Look at this. A marine Plyer has theo complete game time to learn how to play as a marine.Cause his role never change. The alien only has a few minutes good gameply with skulk as a beginner. Then he will be punished for the es of the game.
Ok toher iea why dont put ingametutorials in there? A levl with ki, some standig still, tohr walkling and avoid attacks, and the lst group act like normal marines? To learn the basics of the gameplay?
I must say i looked a lot of videos over the skulk. i now hwo to move on walls, i know how to sneak, i know ho to ambush. but what no video can tell me is the movement in combat. I ambush an enemy, got on it, take the first bite and then the marine jump and jump and jump again. i i complete lose the overview.I runnnig in circles searching the enym who still jumping around me and shooting me and then im dead.
There ar for me just a few minutes i have a chance to success (when i only need 3 perfekt bites to kill) when marines got there upgrades, i die trying 90% of time and when the aliens get flametrowhers, granades and jumpsets, there is no chance.
And the complete alien fraction can only exist if every player can drive this skulk perfect and use perfect teamwork.
All i want is a starter alien which is not that special. Mayby a Lerk with the abbility of moving walls like the skulk. Something usefull when the end is near.
A way to counter GL corner spam.
A decent soft counter to shotgun.
That's my only gripes.
A way to counter GL corner spam.
A decent soft counter to shotgun.
That's my only gripes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats also a big problem. skulks are obsolete in combat late game. Skulks are the only Alien you can use if it turns bad. Find the fault. :D
The computer take all points of conversation, mostly (build this here). As a marine player i never must say a word or post something. Only looking on map and go there where the action is.
And which teamwork? There is noc place for temwork. If you got the repair tool, you can repair the armor of the other. That was it. The rest, stay by the other and shot everything dont need teamwork. Its the same teamwork as in COD. ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're new, and so far i bet you have only fought against other people, who are new. So your ignorance is understandable though it is still ignorance. When the rest of the new people catch up to us vets who have been playing the game for 2 years and when people learn to correctly play Aliens and you see fades go on 50-1 killing sprees you will understand what i mean when i say teamwork and communication is required.
If you truly think "There is no place for teamwork" then you are either blind or dumb.
<!--quoteo(post=2006536:date=Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM:name=Larkis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larkis @ Nov 2 2012, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2006536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Than tell me, how can i use skulks to fight a buble of 5 Marines? You got a Group of 5 Marines walking as a Bubble towards your hive. And you have 5 Skulks. What do you do? And the Marines will allwaya stay in the bubble and walk forward.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Work with another skulk and learn to do the 3 things i said earlier
How can i defend a hive against a bubble of 4-5 Marines or 3-4 marines and an Exco only with the same number of Skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game is about resources and map control. If you are not able to expand to a second hive and gain more harvesters then you will get smoked. Exos are not that hard to take down if you're working together. Get someone to go gorge and bile bomb the exo while you chomp it down. Have a fade kill the marines welding it. The name of the game is teamwork.
Give them a watch, actually apply yourself to it and come back in a week and we'll see if things have changed.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTVrw02WCQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTVrw02WCQ</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSN52NkrmY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSN52NkrmY</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwL9bWq-En8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwL9bWq-En8</a>
At least two of these are in the training section of the NS2 main menu. If Skie can kill 3-4 marines without leap why cant you?
Since when is ignorance ever understandable? Being new has nothing to do with ignorance. Having an ignorant nature to begin with has everything to do with ignorance.
Look at this. A marine Plyer has theo complete game time to learn how to play as a marine.Cause his role never change. The alien only has a few minutes good gameply with skulk as a beginner. Then he will be punished for the es of the game.
Ok toher iea why dont put ingametutorials in there? A levl with ki, some standig still, tohr walkling and avoid attacks, and the lst group act like normal marines? To learn the basics of the gameplay?
I must say i looked a lot of videos over the skulk. i now hwo to move on walls, i know how to sneak, i know ho to ambush. but what no video can tell me is the movement in combat. I ambush an enemy, got on it, take the first bite and then the marine jump and jump and jump again. i i complete lose the overview.I runnnig in circles searching the enym who still jumping around me and shooting me and then im dead.
There ar for me just a few minutes i have a chance to success (when i only need 3 perfekt bites to kill) when marines got there upgrades, i die trying 90% of time and when the aliens get flametrowhers, granades and jumpsets, there is no chance.
And the complete alien fraction can only exist if every player can drive this skulk perfect and use perfect teamwork.
All i want is a starter alien which is not that special. Mayby a Lerk with the abbility of moving walls like the skulk. Something usefull when the end is near.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ugh, I don't know why I am even bothering to reply to this but here goes.
All alien movement is different - you can't have a basic class that teaches all of the movement. This has always been the problem with NS, it doesn't have a learning curve, it has a learning cliff. It takes a lot of time to climb that initial cliff, and then you will hit the actual curve of getting better. If you are losing to 3 bite marines 90% of the time, then you are engaging them at bad times, in bad places and from bad angles. A 3 bite marine means he has 0 armor. At this point int he game you should have at least 1 upgrade and skulks have the -advantage-. I am sorry, but this is all purely an experience issue.
Then you complain about late game skulks with no upgrades against fully upgraded marines. If you have lost leap, you have lost the game.
What they should do is make the skulk model smaller, like in NS1, so it's not as incredibly easy as it is currently to hit skulks. (This heightens the marine skill floor)
your solution for "skulk weakness" is to default to the weakest alien attacker in the game...
by default..
I got this time a match as Alien with a really good commander. In the end we fight in defence against 3 xenos + repair bots + inf with a few gorges (billbomb) a few skulks and me as a leark. Worked really good in this place and this all with Tier 1 Aliens. I see i have a lot more to learn. :D
I got this time a match as Alien with a really good commander. In the end we fight in defence against 3 xenos + repair bots + inf with a few gorges (billbomb) a few skulks and me as a leark. Worked really good in this place and this all with Tier 1 Aliens. I see i have a lot more to learn. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glad you see you are getting the hang of it.
Aliens are all classes, so you need to learn what you are good at doing and what not, what your allies are good and what not, and then support eachother based on the synergy. So fades kill the normal marines. Gorges bile the exo and macs. Lerks gas to provide cover, for skulks who can either attempt to swarm the exo (you are free, after all) or kill the welders. Onos can go take the exosuit headon, and with support can do so even with a long charge first.
A) you're unfamiliar and unskilled with the skulk because you're new. It's tough so it will take time to master its intricacies, but the glancing blow system was added specifically to help new players with this.
B) you keep saying 4-5 Maine's can't be stopped, but it seems the problem isn't the skulk or your skill. It's the lack of teamwork on your team. 5 marines against 5 skulks in a coordinated ambush won't end quite as badly as you're suggesting. anytime the other team can coordinate like that I would expect them to have the upper hand and how can you expect to fight back without coordinating yourself?
Just don't attack when there's two of them, unless you have backup ofcourse :)