I've only been playing since official release, but so far, no cheaters, though there was one guy who I was questioning his abilities some, he was just a little too accurate with his rifle, and the moment he got a grenade launcher, every round he fired struck a Kharaa in the face. Then when he was Kharaa, every time I'd encounter him as a Marine, I'd be full health and armor, and he'd bite me once as a Skulk, even with full Armor upgrades, and I'd be dead.
there actually are people in clans (some of the top ones) that actually do cheat. Not whole clans. Not giving names. But it happens.... oh well. It's not as crazy as CS, and right now so many people are new that I doubt they know how to cheat with the lua code. Could be wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=2009086:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:33 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 3 2012, 11:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Proof or gtfo, buddy. No proof? No 1st person spectating? You'll just have to live with the fact that people are good at this game.
Next thing you know, people are going to start asking for Fana's hacks so they can pubstomp. Those things need to be used responsibly >.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you're not talking to me. A prominent PTer and clan leader (and recognized by UWE) has told me of another PTer that does cheat. Just pointing out that it happens. I haven't seen any cheaters (suspected some new players with 15-0 but that can happen).
<!--quoteo(post=2009105:date=Nov 3 2012, 10:52 PM:name=Sampson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sampson @ Nov 3 2012, 10:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope you're not talking to me. A prominent PTer and clan leader (and recognized by UWE) has told me of another PTer that does cheat. Just pointing out that it happens. I haven't seen any cheaters (suspected some new players with 15-0 but that can happen).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was talking in general about people OP says are "too good to be true". I'm not saying it's impossible, but calling cheats without evidence is just baseless slander. There are far more people who are good enough to be accused of cheats than there are who cheat.
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.
<!--quoteo(post=2009108:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:54 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 3 2012, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was talking in general about people OP says are "too good to be true". I'm not saying it's impossible, but calling cheats without evidence is just baseless slander. There are far more people who are good enough to be accused of cheats than there are who cheat.
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Slander implies that names are being used. And that it affects that players' lifes. Then sue for slander. lol
<!--quoteo(post=2009112:date=Nov 3 2012, 10:56 PM:name=Sampson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sampson @ Nov 3 2012, 10:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Slander implies that names are being used. And that it affects that players' lifes. Then sue for slander. lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess. It's late and my vocabulary has sort of taken a hit, so you'll have to forgive the inaccuracies of my word choice >.>
<!--quoteo(post=2009114:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:57 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 3 2012, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess. It's late and my vocabulary has sort of taken a hit, so you'll have to forgive the inaccuracies of my word choice >.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2009105:date=Nov 4 2012, 04:52 AM:name=Sampson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sampson @ Nov 4 2012, 04:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A prominent PTer and clan leader (and recognized by UWE) has told me of another PTer that does cheat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh my, a prominent PTer... AND a clan leader. Whoa, it must be true then!
Buddy, let me whisper a little something in your ear: If that somebody was actually hacking, I can guarantee you he would be banned from PT instantly. They kick people from PT just for making comments in twitch stream chat for chrissakes...
You said people though, plural. Tell us about these other hackers in top clans, please! I'm all ears...
<!--quoteo(post=2009108:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:54 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 3 2012, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was talking in general about people OP says are "too good to be true". I'm not saying it's impossible, but calling cheats without evidence is just baseless slander. There are far more people who are good enough to be accused of cheats than there are who cheat.
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah... no names were used, no players called out.... Simply an open topic for discussion about it. I never once said he WAS cheating, just that it felt like he wasn't 100% on the level
<!--quoteo(post=2009123:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:02 PM:name=ma$$a$$ter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ma$$a$$ter @ Nov 3 2012, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah... no names were used, no players called out.... Simply an open topic for discussion about it. I never once said he WAS cheating, just that it felt like he wasn't 100% on the level<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And let me say, OP, I'm glad you kept things civil and didn't make a witch-hunt thread. That's more sense than a lot of people show.
Unfortunately, without 1st person spectating or any other tools to detect hacking, a suspicion is effectively meaningless. If a player was banned for every time someone suspected hacks in a pub match, the competitive division would be blacklisted in a week if that.
<!--quoteo(post=2009125:date=Nov 4 2012, 12:06 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 4 2012, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately, without 1st person spectating or any other tools to detect hacking, a suspicion is effectively meaningless. If a player was banned for every time someone suspected hacks in a pub match, the competitive division would be blacklisted in a week if that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First person spectator mode + active admins is the best way to police servers. I couldn't believe it when BF3 launched without a spectator mode. Source games have spoiled us in this regard over the years. It's one of those features that should be a staple of FPS games yet has been overlooked by a few developers recently.
How does one go about finding whether consistency checks are on on a server? Can't check via the browser and I am unaware of any console command that allows a client to see whether they are on or not.
I sometimes come across people like GORGEous. And I usually try to dodge them, because I know that he will brutally murder me and leave a trail of my bodyparts somewhere. Same goes for pretty much anyone else from the more well known pro teams :P
<!--quoteo(post=2008688:date=Nov 3 2012, 05:31 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Nov 3 2012, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2008688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since all the game is in Lua code, the only way to cheat is to modify the Lua scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This isn't true. This is just the easiest way. Can you modify the Lua scripts such that it effects elements of the game that really should be determined server side? (weapon damage and what not). If that's the case it won't be long before we've got DayZ scenarios where a cheater logs onto the server, turns everyone into a chicken, and makes them cockfight eachother....
I really hope the lua engine is a little more protected than you seem to imply.
I really hope that first-person spectating is implemented soon. If not to record concrete evidence of cheating, it would be interesting to see how a live game unfolds through the eyes of players. :D
Cheating is epidemic across all of PC gaming. Its not a problem in every game, but it can get really bad. Just look back to the cheating epidemic seen back in mid 2000 Counter strike.
There is an entire culture of players who find the activity of developing cheats to be entertaining, not to mention the scumbags who are willing to pay for custom cheats which help encourage it even more.
I don't think its legitimate to argue, NS2 does not have cheating yet, as its the wrong way to quantify this problem.
If we plan on having a game that is actually relevant in the PC gaming scene, as it appears to be becoming already, cheats will come. It seems to me like the murmur of cheating being a problem potentially in NS2, even during the beta, particularity due to NS2's high level of modibility, that this will only serve to attract those who enjoy researching and writing cheats for games, as well as the weak souls who actually find it entertaining to play games while cheating while pretending they are not.
So far the plan is, let the community deal with it. This works pretty well, and is truely the foundational to a working anti-cheating policy. Having admins to servers on call, like through IRC triggers from in game, really helps to cut down player abuse.
The thing that concerns me is that there is an understanding developing among many people that there will be no consequence to cheating, outside of individual servers actions. If this is allowed to develop, it could be bad news as it might tempt players who are frustrated with the game to turn to some unfair modifications to their game, falling into the categorization of cheating.
I trust that UWE has considered VAC as an option, but I still really would like to see an official “Jail Time†policy towards cheating. I think that will discourage a lot of people. Its hard to quantify this, since Valve is so secretive with their numbers, bit it makes sense to me. The next best scenario, is a community blacklist, or tools for such a list, which seems like a low hanging fruit type project for someone.
<!--quoteo(post=2009121:date=Nov 3 2012, 11:01 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 3 2012, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh my, a prominent PTer... AND a clan leader. Whoa, it must be true then!
Buddy, let me whisper a little something in your ear: If that somebody was actually hacking, I can guarantee you he would be banned from PT instantly. They kick people from PT just for making comments in twitch stream chat for chrissakes...
You said people though, plural. Tell us about these other hackers in top clans, please! I'm all ears...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not impossible Fana. I don't think we'll see publically available hacks for a while, but I'd be surprised if there aren't a few individual players out there with coding ability testing the water.
I kind of doubt we have any of the really really nice hacks that are undetectable to the observant eye though. That takes a lot of time and effort.
I had just joined a server to find we were getting annihilated by an extremely skilled fade. He had like 60 kills and like 6 deaths (aprox.). Some guys were saying he was cheating, and others started to agree too. After a while however, it did become apparent that he could, in fact, be killed. We couldn't see any way he was hacking, so some started to come to their senses and just called him a really good player.
This was in the beta, mind you, so imagine how much he must get called on BS now?
If someone else suggests a player is cheating, don't take their word as god's. Examine the guy in question for yourself, and if he's legit, leave him alone. If not, voice your findings (and PROOF) to an admin. As mentioned before, don't take part in witch hunts. They're dumb and lower your IQ.
It's good that the OP didn't name anybody. If players begin to get named, the thread will be locked. Has happened before every time. Don't see if it happens to this discussion.
Stickyboot I think you are onto something. If their was a way to "flag" a player everytime he was banned from a server and count that in some way to equip a community ban I see that really becoming a great thing. A single ban not meaning much but rather the patteren of bans from multiple servers enters that User onto a black list
VAC is completely outdated, won't help a bit against cheaters. You can use hacks made from 2004 for Counter-Strike that VAC won't be able to detect. What makes you think VAC will do any better on NS2?
<!--quoteo(post=2009525:date=Nov 4 2012, 01:32 PM:name=ma$$a$$ter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ma$$a$$ter @ Nov 4 2012, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stickyboot I think you are onto something. If their was a way to "flag" a player everytime he was banned from a server and count that in some way to equip a community ban I see that really becoming a great thing. A single ban not meaning much but rather the patteren of bans from multiple servers enters that User onto a black list<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure if this is a good idea, depending on how it's implemented of course. If it's fully automatic it'd be a very bad thing... I've known good players to get banned from servers on a daily basis for "hacking" when playing clean (in other games, not this one).
<!--quoteo(post=2009105:date=Nov 4 2012, 05:52 AM:name=Sampson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sampson @ Nov 4 2012, 05:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope you're not talking to me. A prominent PTer and clan leader (and recognized by UWE) has told me of another PTer that does cheat. Just pointing out that it happens. I haven't seen any cheaters (suspected some new players with 15-0 but that can happen).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I can't think of a single "prominent PTer who's also a clan leader", and most importantly UWE recognizing this fact? Sounds like completely made up to me.
But I kinda imagine who that would be based on past record and certain comments...
And finally, I haven't encountered a single cheater in competitive NS2 yet... and playing public right now is absurdly boring, btw.
I'm not sure if some people don't know this, but you can toggle cheats on/off on the fly these days. I have yet to see this happen in my time here in NS2, but it's pretty amusing when you call someone out doing EXTREMELY well and suddenly that person becomes mortal again. What happened to your so called godly aim there buddy?
I'll just say that there's good and there's TOO good. I applaud people who are more skilled than I am. I may get annoyed when my skulk just melt against these players, but hey they're better than me so I need to rethink my approach here. But when I get destroyed mid-leap attacking from behind and the guy whips around a full 180 and blasts me right in the face with the shotgun? Hiding in some random ceiling without line of sight, making zero noise, and getting popped in the face the moment that person makes an appearance? Doing this consistently and against my entire team?
Yeah I can buy skilled aim, not so much on omniscient map awareness. The lack of an anti-cheat system (even though those are easily beaten) and proper first-person spectating (to my knowledge) doesn't lend much confidence to the integrity of players. Just give me the ability to spectate someone properly so I know they are cheaters without a shadow of a doubt.
For the record, I don't consider obscenely high K/Ds as evidence of cheating (shoot I can pull this off every now and then and I certainly don't cheat). I consider it a warning sign that this person should be monitored for suspicious behavior. If at all possible, I'll jump to spectator mode and watch for several minutes. If the person is cheating, well then hey what can you do? If not, well at least I can learn from someone better than I am.
I've been called a cheater 3 times already... and the game is only a few days old. I'm a bit of a twitch gamer, so I flick around a lot (hence why I can't stand playing consoles, too sluggish for me). However, I would definitely like to see some countermeasures in place for cheaters, because it destroys the fun factor of every game that has them.
(To those who think they've been cheated at this point, you're probably just getting owned by a good player.)
<!--quoteo(post=2009225:date=Nov 4 2012, 05:49 AM:name=sushia11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sushia11 @ Nov 4 2012, 05:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had just joined a server to find we were getting annihilated by an extremely skilled fade. He had like 60 kills and like 6 deaths (aprox.). Some guys were saying he was cheating, and others started to agree too. After a while however, it did become apparent that he could, in fact, be killed. We couldn't see any way he was hacking, so some started to come to their senses and just called him a really good player.
This was in the beta, mind you, so imagine how much he must get called on BS now?
If someone else suggests a player is cheating, don't take their word as god's. Examine the guy in question for yourself, and if he's legit, leave him alone. If not, voice your findings (and PROOF) to an admin. As mentioned before, don't take part in witch hunts. They're dumb and lower your IQ.
It's good that the OP didn't name anybody. If players begin to get named, the thread will be locked. Has happened before every time. Don't see if it happens to this discussion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lolzies... if people start calling fades cheats now wait to see what happens when fade finally gets restored to its true glory... I have been practicing ALOT with gimp fade, OMG he hax!!! six seconds later 4 marines all glancing shot me and I die instantly... Ermagurd we killed the haxor!
Comments
Next thing you know, people are going to start asking for Fana's hacks so they can pubstomp. Those things need to be used responsibly >.>
Next thing you know, people are going to start asking for Fana's hacks so they can pubstomp. Those things need to be used responsibly >.><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you're not talking to me. A prominent PTer and clan leader (and recognized by UWE) has told me of another PTer that does cheat. Just pointing out that it happens. I haven't seen any cheaters (suspected some new players with 15-0 but that can happen).
I was talking in general about people OP says are "too good to be true". I'm not saying it's impossible, but calling cheats without evidence is just baseless slander. There are far more people who are good enough to be accused of cheats than there are who cheat.
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Slander implies that names are being used. And that it affects that players' lifes. Then sue for slander. lol
I guess. It's late and my vocabulary has sort of taken a hit, so you'll have to forgive the inaccuracies of my word choice >.>
no u lose the internetz. lol =p
Oh my, a prominent PTer... AND a clan leader. Whoa, it must be true then!
Buddy, let me whisper a little something in your ear: If that somebody was actually hacking, I can guarantee you he would be banned from PT instantly. They kick people from PT just for making comments in twitch stream chat for chrissakes...
You said people though, plural. Tell us about these other hackers in top clans, please! I'm all ears...
If you have evidence of cheating, a confession, file dump, or other source, then nothing I said really applies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah... no names were used, no players called out.... Simply an open topic for discussion about it. I never once said he WAS cheating, just that it felt like he wasn't 100% on the level
And let me say, OP, I'm glad you kept things civil and didn't make a witch-hunt thread. That's more sense than a lot of people show.
Unfortunately, without 1st person spectating or any other tools to detect hacking, a suspicion is effectively meaningless. If a player was banned for every time someone suspected hacks in a pub match, the competitive division would be blacklisted in a week if that.
First person spectator mode + active admins is the best way to police servers. I couldn't believe it when BF3 launched without a spectator mode. Source games have spoiled us in this regard over the years. It's one of those features that should be a staple of FPS games yet has been overlooked by a few developers recently.
This isn't true. This is just the easiest way. Can you modify the Lua scripts such that it effects elements of the game that really should be determined server side? (weapon damage and what not). If that's the case it won't be long before we've got DayZ scenarios where a cheater logs onto the server, turns everyone into a chicken, and makes them cockfight eachother....
I really hope the lua engine is a little more protected than you seem to imply.
There is an entire culture of players who find the activity of developing cheats to be entertaining, not to mention the scumbags who are willing to pay for custom cheats which help encourage it even more.
I don't think its legitimate to argue, NS2 does not have cheating yet, as its the wrong way to quantify this problem.
If we plan on having a game that is actually relevant in the PC gaming scene, as it appears to be becoming already, cheats will come. It seems to me like the murmur of cheating being a problem potentially in NS2, even during the beta, particularity due to NS2's high level of modibility, that this will only serve to attract those who enjoy researching and writing cheats for games, as well as the weak souls who actually find it entertaining to play games while cheating while pretending they are not.
So far the plan is, let the community deal with it. This works pretty well, and is truely the foundational to a working anti-cheating policy. Having admins to servers on call, like through IRC triggers from in game, really helps to cut down player abuse.
The thing that concerns me is that there is an understanding developing among many people that there will be no consequence to cheating, outside of individual servers actions. If this is allowed to develop, it could be bad news as it might tempt players who are frustrated with the game to turn to some unfair modifications to their game, falling into the categorization of cheating.
I trust that UWE has considered VAC as an option, but I still really would like to see an official “Jail Time†policy towards cheating. I think that will discourage a lot of people. Its hard to quantify this, since Valve is so secretive with their numbers, bit it makes sense to me. The next best scenario, is a community blacklist, or tools for such a list, which seems like a low hanging fruit type project for someone.
Buddy, let me whisper a little something in your ear: If that somebody was actually hacking, I can guarantee you he would be banned from PT instantly. They kick people from PT just for making comments in twitch stream chat for chrissakes...
You said people though, plural. Tell us about these other hackers in top clans, please! I'm all ears...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not impossible Fana. I don't think we'll see publically available hacks for a while, but I'd be surprised if there aren't a few individual players out there with coding ability testing the water.
I kind of doubt we have any of the really really nice hacks that are undetectable to the observant eye though. That takes a lot of time and effort.
This was in the beta, mind you, so imagine how much he must get called on BS now?
If someone else suggests a player is cheating, don't take their word as god's. Examine the guy in question for yourself, and if he's legit, leave him alone. If not, voice your findings (and PROOF) to an admin. As mentioned before, don't take part in witch hunts. They're dumb and lower your IQ.
It's good that the OP didn't name anybody. If players begin to get named, the thread will be locked. Has happened before every time. Don't see if it happens to this discussion.
Not sure if this is a good idea, depending on how it's implemented of course. If it's fully automatic it'd be a very bad thing... I've known good players to get banned from servers on a daily basis for "hacking" when playing clean (in other games, not this one).
I can't think of a single "prominent PTer who's also a clan leader", and most importantly UWE recognizing this fact? Sounds like completely made up to me.
But I kinda imagine who that would be based on past record and certain comments...
And finally, I haven't encountered a single cheater in competitive NS2 yet... and playing public right now is absurdly boring, btw.
I'll just say that there's good and there's TOO good. I applaud people who are more skilled than I am. I may get annoyed when my skulk just melt against these players, but hey they're better than me so I need to rethink my approach here. But when I get destroyed mid-leap attacking from behind and the guy whips around a full 180 and blasts me right in the face with the shotgun? Hiding in some random ceiling without line of sight, making zero noise, and getting popped in the face the moment that person makes an appearance? Doing this consistently and against my entire team?
Yeah I can buy skilled aim, not so much on omniscient map awareness. The lack of an anti-cheat system (even though those are easily beaten) and proper first-person spectating (to my knowledge) doesn't lend much confidence to the integrity of players. Just give me the ability to spectate someone properly so I know they are cheaters without a shadow of a doubt.
For the record, I don't consider obscenely high K/Ds as evidence of cheating (shoot I can pull this off every now and then and I certainly don't cheat). I consider it a warning sign that this person should be monitored for suspicious behavior. If at all possible, I'll jump to spectator mode and watch for several minutes. If the person is cheating, well then hey what can you do? If not, well at least I can learn from someone better than I am.
(To those who think they've been cheated at this point, you're probably just getting owned by a good player.)
This was in the beta, mind you, so imagine how much he must get called on BS now?
If someone else suggests a player is cheating, don't take their word as god's. Examine the guy in question for yourself, and if he's legit, leave him alone. If not, voice your findings (and PROOF) to an admin. As mentioned before, don't take part in witch hunts. They're dumb and lower your IQ.
It's good that the OP didn't name anybody. If players begin to get named, the thread will be locked. Has happened before every time. Don't see if it happens to this discussion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lolzies... if people start calling fades cheats now wait to see what happens when fade finally gets restored to its true glory...
I have been practicing ALOT with gimp fade, OMG he hax!!! six seconds later 4 marines all glancing shot me and I die instantly... Ermagurd we killed the haxor!
xD