"Sniping" - Getting out of LOS - Still getting killed
EnvyQT
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167021Members
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167021Members
<div class="IPBDescription">aka. Server sync problems</div>So I have played around with the Lerk recently trying to just "Snipe" bases from far away and just move out of Line Of Sight (LOS) (or fly away) once the marines tries to kill me. As we all know Lerk has low HP and is quite easily killed if he is not moving fast.
I have a huge problem with server sync/delay as I have started this method. I, on my screen, manage to get out of LOS "just in time", but then finding myself getting killed anyway.
I am not sure if this is an issue with delay from My PC - Server - His PC, even though I normaly have around 50-60 ping on the close servers. It might also be a problem with the "prediction system" the server does. I bet as I am standing still sniping so long, it "predicts" that I am going to just stand still once I start to get shot at.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Is this a problem that can be fixed or do we just have to live with it?
TL;DR: I stand still "Sniping", Marine comes to shoot me, I move out of LOS "just in time", I still die.
I have a huge problem with server sync/delay as I have started this method. I, on my screen, manage to get out of LOS "just in time", but then finding myself getting killed anyway.
I am not sure if this is an issue with delay from My PC - Server - His PC, even though I normaly have around 50-60 ping on the close servers. It might also be a problem with the "prediction system" the server does. I bet as I am standing still sniping so long, it "predicts" that I am going to just stand still once I start to get shot at.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Is this a problem that can be fixed or do we just have to live with it?
TL;DR: I stand still "Sniping", Marine comes to shoot me, I move out of LOS "just in time", I still die.
Comments
The primary benefit of this system is that by interpolating player movement based on a slight delay, player movement appears smooth. Without it everyone would be teleporting short distances on your screen every time they change direction, etc. It also helps compensate for lag if you play on a distant server.
Unfortunately, this also creates an "artificial lag" of sorts even on a local server where everyone has low ping. <b>A tenth of a second (100ms) might not seem like much but in a game where you move quickly like NS2, this becomes a big deal</b>. You will, as you noticed, get sniped around corners when you're technically safe on your own screen, and this is terribly infuriating.
So what can be done about it? Nothing. This is up to the devs. While the smooth player movement is important, the "artificial lag" caused by this system is highly undesirable. Preferably you'd have the bare minimum to ensure smooth movement, but that may already be the case. I'm no coder so I can't claim to do a better job. But hopefully this interpolation can be tweaked and optimized to be less frustrating in future. Just don't hold your breath.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Server admins can actually set this interp lower for more precise gaming, but I never see it done. It shouldn't effect performance that much either... so I am not sure why the interp isn't set lower by default.
I remember the developers saying they would raise the tickrate of the game and lower interp at some point.
Server admins can actually set this interp lower for more precise gaming, but I never see it done. It shouldn't effect performance that much either... so I am not sure why the interp isn't set lower by default.
I remember the developers saying they would raise the tickrate of the game and lower interp at some point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 had the same level of interp as CS, NS2 sacrificed gameplay for eyecandy.
L4D and L4D2's tick rate (<i>not</i> the same as the client update rate in Source engine games, although the update rate can't exceed the tick rate) is fixed at 30 ticks per second.
A large amount of interpolation (like 100ms) does contribute to that, but no more so than 100ms of network latency would.
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Actually, it is latency and latency compensation. And the problem is that the latency for the purpose of getting-out-in-time-not-to-die is your latency + your attackers latency + 100ms network interpolation + 50ms rendering latency.
Then add in your human reaction speed of 200ms to that, and you will find that if you wait for your damage indicator to start blinking before you start to move, you are going to offer your attacker a sitting duck for half a second; plenty of time to kill a skulk and pretty close to the time needed to kill a lerk.
So focusing on interp as the culprit isn't really profitable.
Do note that you can use this to your advantage when you attack - if you surprise someone, they won't start dodging on your screen until half a second late.
Vice versa - if you want to avoid getting hit, start moving and dodging way before you get hit.
I have a huge problem with server sync/delay as I have started this method. I, on my screen, manage to get out of LOS "just in time", but then finding myself getting killed anyway.
I am not sure if this is an issue with delay from My PC - Server - His PC, even though I normaly have around 50-60 ping on the close servers. It might also be a problem with the "prediction system" the server does. I bet as I am standing still sniping so long, it "predicts" that I am going to just stand still once I start to get shot at.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Is this a problem that can be fixed or do we just have to live with it?
TL;DR: I stand still "Sniping", Marine comes to shoot me, I move out of LOS "just in time", I still die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i believe that's lag interpolation, and i've noticed it quite a few times as well... however, there's a solution - acknowledge that you have to retreat sooner.
i can let it slide since the hit registration is probably the best i've ever seen in a shooter since unreal tournament.
removing/lessening the effect of lag interpolation will lower the hit registration. i don't know about you, but i like my bullets and bites to hit stuff when they should.
i remember unreal tournament '99, where i was playing in a 56k with 300-500ms latency... you literally had to lead your sniper rifle shots about 45 degrees infront of people :P
i think interpolation effectively removes all latency of that kind, by creating a 'buffer' where you hit the target exactly where you see the target at the cost of having a slight delay on projectile attacks and other stuff which is calculated server side. unfortunately, the lower your interp then the less reliable your buffer (you have less time to receive/send 'backup' data packets, and you begin to lose a lot of dropped packets), so you get horribly inconsistent hit registration. i don't know about you, but i would not enjoy this game if you kept getting non-reg AR or bites... with current interp i haven't noticed any bad registration in 30 hours...
imo as long as everyone in the server has an identical interp value, then it's fair. eventually, players will adapt to the interp 'getting shot around corners' phenomenon. i see the same in tf2 all the time <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9j5IlNnimg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9j5IlNnimg</a>
This is the case in every fast FPS out there with quick strafing movement and/or a lot of air control.
Just get into the groove of dodging and moving as much as you can and you'll soon both get rid of most "around the corner" deaths and increase your
overall survivability by a great deal.
Something no one else has mentioned either is the hitboxes and model sizes. What you see from the first person view is often not super indicative of what your
actual model is doing. A good example is standing in a vent opening with a skulk, you can't see out from the vent at all but marines can see a little bit of your head and kill
you in a burst of bullets.
Overcompensate til' you get the feel of where you're not being killed around corners anymore :)
Edit: whoops, was a bit late :D