Dear non-commanders...
CodeCowboy
Join Date: 2012-09-21 Member: 160235Members
Join Date: 2012-09-21 Member: 160235Members
Hello, players who haven't commanded or aren't commanding at the moment!
Let us assign blame... because that's what most people like to do. But lets use a blame standard that is consistent.
If the commander has all the upgrades and most of the res nodes and you still manage to lose it... it is not the commander's fault you lost.
If the commander is telling you when and where the enemy are attacking... he is not whining. He is giving you vital information you will need.
If the commander tells you "there are three of you go through the door and kill the guy who is shooting at the hive from the other room and you wait on the inside of the door "for a good ambush" it is not the commander's fault when the hive dies and you ultimately lose. No, you don't have the right to tell the comm, "All your whining about attacking doesn't help."
On the other hand...
If your commander isn't expanding to get resources... isn't building upgrades... isn't getting you the tools you need to combat the enemy... THEN you can claim the commander sucks.
The commander's job is to capture the resources that you secure.. SECURE mind you...not leave to be taken out over and over.
If you cannot hold a front line the commander cannot do his job. If you cannot kill the enemy, that is not the commander's fault (unless you have no upgrades).
If you complain about not having carapace after you let the carapace hive get killed and wiped clean... you're just a moron.
If your commander doesn't support his marines with phase tech and forward bases and you therefore cannot sustain a push, then you can blame the commander.
If you expect the commander to spend team resources so you can waste onos eggs on solo suicide runs into rooms full of marines, you're just a tool. If you think the commander exists to med spam you while you're right next to an armory, you are similarly equipped as a looney.
This service announcement has been brought to you by the Council of You're a New Player, Stop Blaming Your Comm.
Let us assign blame... because that's what most people like to do. But lets use a blame standard that is consistent.
If the commander has all the upgrades and most of the res nodes and you still manage to lose it... it is not the commander's fault you lost.
If the commander is telling you when and where the enemy are attacking... he is not whining. He is giving you vital information you will need.
If the commander tells you "there are three of you go through the door and kill the guy who is shooting at the hive from the other room and you wait on the inside of the door "for a good ambush" it is not the commander's fault when the hive dies and you ultimately lose. No, you don't have the right to tell the comm, "All your whining about attacking doesn't help."
On the other hand...
If your commander isn't expanding to get resources... isn't building upgrades... isn't getting you the tools you need to combat the enemy... THEN you can claim the commander sucks.
The commander's job is to capture the resources that you secure.. SECURE mind you...not leave to be taken out over and over.
If you cannot hold a front line the commander cannot do his job. If you cannot kill the enemy, that is not the commander's fault (unless you have no upgrades).
If you complain about not having carapace after you let the carapace hive get killed and wiped clean... you're just a moron.
If your commander doesn't support his marines with phase tech and forward bases and you therefore cannot sustain a push, then you can blame the commander.
If you expect the commander to spend team resources so you can waste onos eggs on solo suicide runs into rooms full of marines, you're just a tool. If you think the commander exists to med spam you while you're right next to an armory, you are similarly equipped as a looney.
This service announcement has been brought to you by the Council of You're a New Player, Stop Blaming Your Comm.
Comments
Tone of voice and being the better man, gets you a long way.
What I've noticed is that instead of ordering people around, while it does work, encouraging them instead sets a better atmosphere which makes games better - even if you lose.
Playing that role is a tall order. It's impressive how NS2HD (http://www.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelection2HD) does it.
Playing Aliens, primary hive in Cave. Commander almost immediately dropped a hive in Operations, none of us were actually down there yet save for 1 scout, meanwhile the marines are stomping in from Repair a short distance away (The location of their base). They actually took out the hive in the time it took for the rest of us to get to the hive. Commander gets pissy about us not following orders. GGs the match telling us we are ####ed.
Don't do that, unless you know who you are playing with you can't seriously expect vanilla skulks who are potentially new to the game to hold a hive right next to a marine base, and as far away from the spawn base as possible.
Playing Aliens, primary hive in Cave. Commander almost immediately dropped a hive in Operations, none of us were actually down there yet save for 1 scout, meanwhile the marines are stomping in from Repair a short distance away (The location of their base). They actually took out the hive in the time it took for the rest of us to get to the hive. Commander gets pissy about us not following orders. GGs the match telling us we are ####ed.
Don't do that, unless you know who you are playing with you can't seriously expect vanilla skulks who are potentially new to the game to hold a hive right next to a marine base, and as far away from the spawn base as possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, that's utterly crappy commanding. I find I make different decisions now that the game is live and pubs are full of inexperienced players. ie, as incredibly effective as silence is, I never get it till last now, etc.
You can com without a mic, but you better type fast. Not sure how you get by without knowing all the hotkey combos. And you should have a general strategy of where you want to expand, what res nodes to grab, which upgrades first, etc etc etc.
If you don't have the 4 in the first line, go explore a map and practice a bit. Explore mode is pretty awesome actually. You can jump in and out of com to build upgrades, play with the hotkeys, and not worry about losing a game.
Very true. If you get the team upgrades and expand, at least you are giving the team a chance. You don't have to be a com superstar first time out. Most people are new and don't freak out unless you are doing nothing.
That's why you micromanage. Don't say "Can I have someone go here?" and expect exactly one person to go there (instead of 4 people or 0 people to do it!). Call out a person by name, and make it his responsibility to take care of the situation. If the person doesn't follow your orders, make note of it (A bad player!) and assign the order to someone else. Giving waypoints help, but once again, there is a problem of diffusion of responsibility.
A good pub commander doesn't wait until he just so happens to have a good team. He does the best with what he has. He has to inspire confidence: "I don't care how many free cysts you can kill, I am a tactical genius and if you just so happen to just be where I want you, we will win!"
i want to give you different perspective, as a annoying commander you explained.
if you say important vital information ONCE with normal tone, it has no affect, for example.
"guys, there is 1skulk destroying power node at repair, use phasegate to get there"
"uses nano shield to powernode"
"repeats first"
"uses nano shield to powernode"
"power down at repair"
now when you give that order
"some one to repair FAST(as increased tone), there is 1 skulk at powernode !"
"kills skulk"
"done"
It's not about hand holding, it's about direction. Would you rather have a commander that forgot to spend 50 tres but is perfect at leading his troops into battle, or efficient building but no commands whatsoever?
With your commander, would you excuse him if Cafeteria power node was going down from just ONE skulk, and there was nobody to save it? What would you do as in his position? Beacon for just one skulk? Type in "I need one person to go to cafeteria"? or wouldn't you rather have someone with a mic say "Highlander to Cafeteria Power Node"
I'd rather have an inefficient res spending commander that can work with his team properly. As in, Teamwork.
That's why you micromanage. Don't say "Can I have someone go here?" and expect exactly one person to go there (instead of 4 people or 0 people to do it!). Call out a person by name, and make it his responsibility to take care of the situation. If the person doesn't follow your orders, make note of it (A bad player!) and assign the order to someone else. Giving waypoints help, but once again, there is a problem of diffusion of responsibility.
A good pub commander doesn't wait until he just so happens to have a good team. He does the best with what he has. He has to inspire confidence: "I don't care how many free cysts you can kill, I am a tactical genius and if you just so happen to just be where I want you, we will win!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I especially agree with the micromanage aspect...since picking up the responsibility of commanding on both marines and aliens, I've noticed that people respond better when you call them out by name, which increases a sense of ownership in the team effort.
i don't understand these comm.
each time i place an harvester, i use the mist: 3 res lost BUT the increase in harvester regen will make me have those res back almost istantly. and also for many structures, and also for onos / fade/ lerk: losing the res because it took too much to evolve is crappy. But also people that are evolving and dont' ask for mist (use the taunt button) as i cannot know if you are evolving as a skulk or as an onos, probably under a shade.
With your commander, would you excuse him if Cafeteria power node was going down from just ONE skulk, and there was nobody to save it? What would you do as in his position? Beacon for just one skulk? Type in "I need one person to go to cafeteria"? or wouldn't you rather have someone with a mic say "Highlander to Cafeteria Power Node"
I'd rather have an inefficient res spending commander that can work with his team properly. As in, Teamwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes but these are pub games. people dont listen and dont know how to cooperate is my point. unless i play with people i know. NOTHING gets done ever. I've had people ###### at me for 5 minutes for not building sentries which any smart comm knows is a resource sink. I'm fed up pub players who complain to comms, when the comm is doing well. Fed up of people who suck ass and blame others. But hey most people dont like to admit failure. when im on the ground and i fail, i never once blame comm, not once do i ever blame him even if he is new.
I started to say, at the two minute mark, if the commander is expanding and not turtling, doing a decent job even if it's a noob, "hey, comm, you're doing a good job". Then, it's rare that others complain :asd:
if you say important vital information ONCE with normal tone, it has no affect, for example.
"guys, there is 1skulk destroying power node at repair, use phasegate to get there"
"uses nano shield to powernode"
"repeats first"
"uses nano shield to powernode"
"power down at repair"
now when you give that order
"some one to repair FAST(as increased tone), there is 1 skulk at powernode !"
"kills skulk"
"done"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a delicate balance - you have to be authoritative, but it's still important not to get annoyed with people. There isn't anybody that responds well to that. I would rather goof around in a disorganized game than win by listening to a comm that's being a jerk. Keep your orders short and concise, the more specific the better. It helps to direct your order at someone, if not with a specific name then at least with the room they're in or "next person to spawn, go here" or something. Emphasize giving orders over simply providing information unless you really trust your marines to know how to handle it.
yes in my experience this is 90% of the time the case, i was however giving examples of when it isnt like that, people wanted me to build sentries so we could turtle because they cant aim. People yelled at a competent comm because he didnt have a mic ffs. AND if the comm is good people run around the map like headless chickens anyway no one knows where to go and when in pubs. No matter how good you are at comm. You rely on other people to do the work.
Marine starts hitting the hive outside the room... one skulk is waiting on the other side of the door... 2 more skulks run up to the door. they sit there.
"Ok, guys, there's three of you go get him"
... nothing....
"There are three of you next to the guy killing the hive... go get him, you got this"
... nothing ....
~ HIVE IS DYING ~
"Guys, sitting there waiting for him isn't helping... if you don't go kill him we lose! MOVE IT!"
Finally they go and kill the one guy... but now he has 2 teammates who finish off the hive right before they die.
That isn't whining... that's frustration over the unwillingness to engage the enemy.. like they won't respawn if they die or something.
Preach it!
Tone of voice and being the better man, gets you a long way.
What I've noticed is that instead of ordering people around, while it does work, encouraging them instead sets a better atmosphere which makes games better - even if you lose.
Playing that role is a tall order. It's impressive how NS2HD (http://www.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelection2HD) does it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hello,
I watched one of his games just now, and I find that while he is a good pub commander in general and in attitude (most important aspect of a public game commander), he talks too much. There's no way to hear what he says when it's directed at you if there is a constant blabber of semi-important things. Best way to speak is to directly address marines by name or by "everyone", and be short and concise over voice comm. It helps both your message to get through but also lets you marines to actually listen to enemies. Sound is almost more important than vision in a game like NS2.
Which is why, people, its helpful if you actually use a name that is easy to read/pronounce...
Its really only the new players that need to be micromanaged. If i tell someone new to go xyz location, they wont know where to go and i'll have to give him a command and way point every time he respawns. Its like controlling lemmings at that point, if/when they do listen to my verbal and way point commands. Normally with the more veteran players, you can just tell them a general command... like aliens are pushing out from xyz, therefore put pressure there. While i try to tell the rest, go to abc location (opposite direction) and help me expand res that direction.
Alien comm's have it much easier generally speaking. Micromanaging here is more on the UI than it is with individual players. Alien strategies for the most part fall in line better with the natural tendancies of most pub players. On the flip side, an organized marine rush is almost unbeatable.
I'm tired of seeing new commanders who perform half decently despite their inexperience get chewed out by people who have offered zero help. You want something upgraded? Tell them how to do it. You want something built? Tell them how to do it. If you have no experience as a commander and cannot even point out where these things are built, then you have NO right to whine or complain, because with that attitude, then you would probably be an even worse commander than the one that's at least trying to get a feel for what he or she should be doing. If you do have some commanding experience under your belt, and you instead choose to be a dillhole, then shame on you. Any possible loss is off of the commanders shoulders at that point.
If no one is taking the chair, and you have some commanding experience under your belt, but decide not to take it, forcing some one who has never touched the chair before take it and you do nothing but complain about his/her inexperience, then shame on you.
Baa-ram-ewe. Baa-ram-ewe. To your breed, your fleece, your clan be true. Sheep be true. Baa-ram-ewe.
Marine starts hitting the hive outside the room... one skulk is waiting on the other side of the door... 2 more skulks run up to the door. they sit there.
"Ok, guys, there's three of you go get him"
... nothing....
"There are three of you next to the guy killing the hive... go get him, you got this"
... nothing ....
~ HIVE IS DYING ~
<b><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->"Guys, sitting there waiting for him isn't helping... if you don't go kill him we lose! MOVE IT!"<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Finally they go and kill the one guy... but now he has 2 teammates who finish off the hive right before they die.
That isn't whining... that's frustration over the unwillingness to engage the enemy.. like they won't respawn if they die or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Call it what you want, that's not helpful. You could be the best RTS player in the world, but if you get audibly frustrated with your team you're not doing a good job as comm. Did you actually say "You skulks in so-and-so hive" or did you just assume that they would know you were talking to them?
Another match I had a really awful commander on marines. He was basically ordering every single player to Skylights and was dropping medpacks all day long so they could go for Sub Sector. Well, all fine, but he never expanded east. I went right after the initial zerg attack east to Topology and asked him friendly to drop an extractor there. No response.
I tried again. No response. I waited. No other player ever walked in my direction either. About two minutes later, I asked again, getting a bit annoyed already because he did have the resources several times but rather researched stuff. Another player was spectating me and felt my pain. After waiting over FIVE minutes at the resource point right next to our base, never getting an extractor dropped and seeing all the players going west with tunnel vision, a Skulk finally came by and released me from my pain.
I am usually quite tolerant, but that commander made me facepalm so hard that I switched to the alien team right after that, simply for the hope that their commander was slightly more competent.
So, your job as a pub commander is simply to give them the tools to win. Sure, give them info about what is happening around the map... Tell them, such and such is under attack. Tell them what you are upgrading. What you want to happen. And if it doesn't happen how you want, don't piss and moan and yell at them. Change your strategy. Tailor your commanding to whatever you have to work with, player wise.
Not only will this lead to less headaches for everyone involved, but it wins a bit more often. That's just my experience though. A limited experience. But a fun experience.