Fade / lifeform uselessness
.ADHd
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Let the flame begin</div>In very recent builds our fade has become a paper thin movement gimmick. Even with the bugged out and extremely small blinking model, the fade was pretty much useless in turning the tide of games. I was first annoyed that fades could rarely be shot while in blink but now I realize it's kind of essential if you don't want to die before even getting close enough to engage a marine.
Getting a fade or two usually meant holding mid game for longer and being able to hold off <i>groups</i> of marines. Now a fade is pretty stupid if they blink into a group or 3 or more marines (Especially if they hold shotguns). So, what is the fade used for now? In my eyes its a slightly more mobile and powerful skulk. Basically, the fade keeps single marines from being able to move around the map... but who ever does that as marine anyway? Even a single shotgun marine with a little aim and luck can solo a fade. A shotgun can do more DPS than a fade can to a marine which seems a bit backwards considering 20 res shotguns vs 50 res fade. While soloing fades was also possible in NS1, it was usually due to the fade not retreating after taking a decent amount of damage. In NS2 you are dead before you realize you have taken too much damage. 2 shotgun blasts can kill a carapace fade, and when you do the math of adding groups of 3 shotgun marines its easy to see how fades are cannon fodder even compared to skulks. They are huge and easy to target.
I'm sure a lot of people will whine and disagree with me because they get destroyed by fades all the time, but take into consideration why and how that happened to you. Were you alone? Did you not have armor or weapons upgrades? Did you have an LMG? Fades should always be able to kill marines of these types and should also be able to take damage from multiple shotguns and be able to run away. That is the ENTIRE POINT of the fade. It is supposed to be able to take more damage than a skulk so it can deal more damage to the enemy. Right now it takes 1 shotgun blast to kill a skulk and 2 to kill a fade. So, a fade isn't much more effective at all when you think of it in this perspective.
Also, armor marines with shotguns already counter fades too easily. You don't need weapons 3 or armor 3 to wreck fades. You only need armor 1 and shotguns (And multiple marines).
Fade is broken and is a large factor in why you only see 2nd hive onos hitting the field. It has replaced the fades role of taking damage and dealing damage. The onos is a siege breaking unit but I play it how I used to play fade. I get it mid game and go in and out dealing damage to groups of marines. Notice how I said GROUPS of marines. Fades can only engage one marine at a time and almost always have to back out before getting killed.
I would say increase the fades base armor, and give it more armor with carapace as well (Fade is utterly useless without carapace anyway). It could be tweaked so that fades could take about 2/3 more shotgun damage before they die. I think 3.5 shotgun rounds would be more balanced to kill a fade. This way a group of 3 marines can't insta kill a fade in a simultaneous blast.
If you fix fades you also fix the problem of 2nd hive onos. Nobody wants to play onos in 5 mins... we only do it because we HAVE to. It's not fun gameplay and the onos requires 0 skill at all... it only requires being intelligent with positioning. That is more tedious than it is fun.
Fades come out on the field a little too slow currently as well, which is another reason teams turtle for the onos instead. I remember our first big performance patch.... I loaded it up and immediately saw that fades were pieces of paper. I did agree that fade armor was maybe SLIGHTLY too much the build before, but like always UWE has to way overshoot their balancing tweaks and throw the game way off again. If I recall correctly they nerfed fade HP and armor by almost 50% in recent builds. Could this be the problem of why 2nd hive onos is ruining the fun of the game? I think it's a huge factor. UWE please go have a lan game of NS1 in the office some day and use the fade... take inspiration from it because it was done RIGHT in that game. Fades don't scare me in NS2, they are a big weak target for my shotgun.
Getting a fade or two usually meant holding mid game for longer and being able to hold off <i>groups</i> of marines. Now a fade is pretty stupid if they blink into a group or 3 or more marines (Especially if they hold shotguns). So, what is the fade used for now? In my eyes its a slightly more mobile and powerful skulk. Basically, the fade keeps single marines from being able to move around the map... but who ever does that as marine anyway? Even a single shotgun marine with a little aim and luck can solo a fade. A shotgun can do more DPS than a fade can to a marine which seems a bit backwards considering 20 res shotguns vs 50 res fade. While soloing fades was also possible in NS1, it was usually due to the fade not retreating after taking a decent amount of damage. In NS2 you are dead before you realize you have taken too much damage. 2 shotgun blasts can kill a carapace fade, and when you do the math of adding groups of 3 shotgun marines its easy to see how fades are cannon fodder even compared to skulks. They are huge and easy to target.
I'm sure a lot of people will whine and disagree with me because they get destroyed by fades all the time, but take into consideration why and how that happened to you. Were you alone? Did you not have armor or weapons upgrades? Did you have an LMG? Fades should always be able to kill marines of these types and should also be able to take damage from multiple shotguns and be able to run away. That is the ENTIRE POINT of the fade. It is supposed to be able to take more damage than a skulk so it can deal more damage to the enemy. Right now it takes 1 shotgun blast to kill a skulk and 2 to kill a fade. So, a fade isn't much more effective at all when you think of it in this perspective.
Also, armor marines with shotguns already counter fades too easily. You don't need weapons 3 or armor 3 to wreck fades. You only need armor 1 and shotguns (And multiple marines).
Fade is broken and is a large factor in why you only see 2nd hive onos hitting the field. It has replaced the fades role of taking damage and dealing damage. The onos is a siege breaking unit but I play it how I used to play fade. I get it mid game and go in and out dealing damage to groups of marines. Notice how I said GROUPS of marines. Fades can only engage one marine at a time and almost always have to back out before getting killed.
I would say increase the fades base armor, and give it more armor with carapace as well (Fade is utterly useless without carapace anyway). It could be tweaked so that fades could take about 2/3 more shotgun damage before they die. I think 3.5 shotgun rounds would be more balanced to kill a fade. This way a group of 3 marines can't insta kill a fade in a simultaneous blast.
If you fix fades you also fix the problem of 2nd hive onos. Nobody wants to play onos in 5 mins... we only do it because we HAVE to. It's not fun gameplay and the onos requires 0 skill at all... it only requires being intelligent with positioning. That is more tedious than it is fun.
Fades come out on the field a little too slow currently as well, which is another reason teams turtle for the onos instead. I remember our first big performance patch.... I loaded it up and immediately saw that fades were pieces of paper. I did agree that fade armor was maybe SLIGHTLY too much the build before, but like always UWE has to way overshoot their balancing tweaks and throw the game way off again. If I recall correctly they nerfed fade HP and armor by almost 50% in recent builds. Could this be the problem of why 2nd hive onos is ruining the fun of the game? I think it's a huge factor. UWE please go have a lan game of NS1 in the office some day and use the fade... take inspiration from it because it was done RIGHT in that game. Fades don't scare me in NS2, they are a big weak target for my shotgun.
Comments
Getting a fade or two usually meant holding mid game for longer and being able to hold off <i>groups</i> of marines. Now a fade is pretty stupid if they blink into a group or 3 or more marines (Especially if they hold shotguns). So, what is the fade used for now? In my eyes its a slightly more mobile and powerful skulk. Basically, the fade keeps single marines from being able to move around the map... but who ever does that as marine anyway? Even a single shotgun marine with a little aim and luck can solo a fade. A shotgun can do more DPS than a fade can to a marine which seems a bit backwards considering 20 res shotguns vs 50 res fade. While soloing fades was also possible in NS1, it was usually due to the fade not retreating after taking a decent amount of damage. In NS2 you are dead before you realize you have taken too much damage. 2 shotgun blasts can kill a carapace fade, and when you do the math of adding groups of 3 shotgun marines its easy to see how fades are cannon fodder even compared to skulks. They are huge and easy to target.
I'm sure a lot of people will whine and disagree with me because they get destroyed by fades all the time, but take into consideration why and how that happened to you. Were you alone? Did you not have armor or weapons upgrades? Did you have an LMG? Fades should always be able to kill marines of these types and should also be able to take damage from multiple shotguns and be able to run away. That is the ENTIRE POINT of the fade. It is supposed to be able to take more damage than a skulk so it can deal more damage to the enemy. Right now it takes 1 shotgun blast to kill a skulk and 2 to kill a fade. So, a fade isn't much more effective at all when you think of it in this perspective.
Also armor marines with shotguns already counter fades. You don't need weapons 3 or armor 3 to wreck fades. You only need armor 1 and shotguns (And multiple marines).
Fade is broken and is a large factor in why you only see 2nd hive onos hitting the field. It has replaced the fades role of taking damage and dealing damage. The onos is a siege breaking unit but I play it how I used to play fade. I get it mid game and go in and out dealing damage to groups of marines. Notice how I said GROUPS of marines. Fades can only engage one marine at a time and almost always have to back out before getting killed.
I would say increase the fades base armor, and give it more armor with carapace as well (Fade is utterly useless without carapace anyway). It could be tweaked so that fades could take about 2/3 more shotgun damage before they die. I think 3.5 shotgun rounds would be more balanced to kill a fade. This way a group of 3 marines can't insta kill a fade in a simultaneous blast.
If you fix fades you also fix the problem of 2nd hive onos. Nobody wants to play onos in 5 mins... we only do it because we HAVE to. It's not fun gameplay and the onos requires 0 skill at all... it only requires being intelligent with positioning. That is more tedious than it is fun.
Fades come out on the field a little too slow currently as well, which is another reason teams turtle for the onos instead. I remember our first big performance patch.... I loaded it up and immediately saw that fades were pieces of paper. I did agree that fade armor was maybe SLIGHTLY too much the build before, but like always UWE has to way overshoot their balancing tweaks and throw the game way off again. If I recall correctly they nerfed fade HP and armor by almost 50% in recent builds. Could this be the problem of why 2nd hive onos is ruining the fun of the game? I think it's a huge factor. UWE please go have a lan game of NS1 in the office some day and use the fade... take inspiration from it because it was done RIGHT in that game. Fades don't scare me in NS2, they are a big weak target for my shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The idea of the fade is not to run in and "Swipe swipe swipe" untill a marine is dead. The idea is to blink in (prefered behind the marines) and hit once and then blink out and if repeated in a scenario with three marines in a open room, he can easly kill off one marine at the time. The idea of the fade has never in my opinion to be a mid-range tanker with the ability to move around super effective. Having it be squishy forces people to adept to the "hit and run" idea.
But here is the most important part. If you blink in against three marines and they're all holding a shotgun each and you expect to be able to tank them and take them all out?
Then you're failing to see the team-play aspect of the game. Lets even the plain field in the scenario you described.
(3 marines in a team, against a fade, but now lets add two skulks that jump in and ambushes the marines) - The outcome wont be "marines win 100% of the time" Which is what its suppose to be if un' alone fade tries to kill a group of marines.
Also, if the fade buff goes through then the onos egg's need to be tweaked or hopefully removed. You don't want fades being back to normal and still having onos running around at 5 mins.
And not to be rude, but if a fade can go into a room of 3 marines and kill them all off one by one then those marines failed to aim at all. This might work in a pub, but against people who actually know how to play it will never work.
I would like to think this game is balanced in a way that assumes people understand the underlying concepts of NS. So, it should be balanced accordingly. 1 fade should never be able to kill 3 competent marines by going in and out. You could do this in NS1 thanks to fades not needing stupid carapace, and they had metabolize. So you could realistically go in and out and heal quickly with meta and regen. In NS2 you have to run away to slow crags or all the way back to your hive. Regen with fades in NS2 is useless against good players because you NEED carapace to be able to even get into the room with marines.
Also, if the fade buff goes through then the onos egg's need to be tweaked or hopefully removed. You don't want fades being back to normal and still having onos running around at 5 mins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hit and run tactic will allow you to avoid being instantly killed unless you get unlucky. The fade requires alot of skill to master and have you seen the "pro" players play a fade?
They blink in fast as hell and make a single swipe before retreating and it has been successful alot of times. The fade with the "silent" perk allows them to blink in behind marines and successfully swipe and get out before they are able to react, due to the fact that you wont hear the fade coming.
All I can say is practice and at the moment I'm pretty bad with fades aswell and alot of times it feels like I get killed SO quickly. But I recognize that I'm BAD with the fade and dont expect anything else with the way I play at the moment.
As some one with a join date of Oct 31, 2012, did you stop to consider that the OP might have more experience then you do?
Right now a lot of competitive teams skip fades entirely and just go for straight onos and gorge. From what I've seen and read on the forum, best players and team don't think of fades as very powerful.
They certainly aren't as powerful as they were in ns1, that I can say with out a doubt.
Firstly I would like so say, you sir know <b>nothing</b> of fade balance at all.
Your ideas are all wrong and for a correct analysis of fade balance you should see <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=123562" target="_blank">here</a>!
---
Sorry... I had to...
Anyway.
Fade needs HP buff, armories need to remove armour healing, vortex needs 'de-suck-y-ing', re-impliment focus for late game fades to be viable.
I see exo's as an over-glorified bonus as the end of an already decided game. The game balance shouldn't even bring exo's into consideration since they have no effect on the outcome of games if both teams are playing properly. Sure, exo's can win you the game if the aliens aren't pressuring you or doing their jobs. It deals a lot of damage and cleans up stuff, but that's usually happening after the game is pretty much decided, and it goes both ways. By the time exos are out either aliens have won or marines have won. Exos have 0 effect on meta game, because they don't have a place in the game in my eyes. They don't counter anything, and theres nothing they do that can't be replaced by GL's or arcs. They were thrown in for fun... and sure they are cool and all, but I personally don't find exo gameplay to be rewarding or useful.
Fades shouldn't be tweaked because of exo's. That is just silly in my eyes because in a real game you will never see an exo on the field unless some team is trying some off kilter strategy or they have no other things to spend res on (Which will be untrue due to arcs being 100 times more useful than exos).
221 fade wasn't OP in my eyes. They possibly had a little too much armor but that is about it. When I say a little I mean a little. They got rid of the carapace slowdown too which is a buff, but just put that into consideration when re-balancing.
I play in fear when I am fade. I shouldn't be fearing marines and getting stressed out about trying to run away at every engagement. Even if I engage 1 single shotgun marine I am in fear. He could easily do enough damage to me so that I will die when going on the retreat. Fade doesn't feel good to play as anymore. It might be okay against these brand new day 1 NS players, but that isn't gonna last for too long.
It's bad enough that the fade was turned into an exclusively melee lifeform, but now he's unable to go in contact with a few marines. Even worse if they have a shotgun..
Right now a lot of competitive teams skip fades entirely and just go for straight onos and gorge. From what I've seen and read on the forum, best players and team don't think of fades as very powerful.
They certainly aren't as powerful as they were in ns1, that I can say with out a doubt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, NS2 is not NS1 with upgraded graphics.
Second of all, my "join" date has nothing to do with me not having been in the beta myself and played for months.
Third and for most, most of the posts on the forums at the moment are whiners, on so many aspects of the game that it kinda starts getting repetitiv.
Like alot of other players have said "its way to early to start screaming about balance issues" - The most ironic part were the posts that came up within the first two days as "balance issues" - Getting abit sick of it.
I'm not saying that I'm against change, but some people are just throwing in ideas that are far too ridiculous.
It's bad enough that the fade was turned into an exclusively melee lifeform, but now he's unable to go in contact with a few marines. Even worse if they have a shotgun..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agree. 5 minutes onos egg is just so unnatureal.
Honestly your rant about exo's just sounds elitist and moronic.
It looks like this is merely an attempt to pretend you are better than everyone else because you play competition where exos are barely ever used because losing a marine in a 6v6 game is really bad for your team. In a game where marines hold 2 tech points all game, aliens hold 2 and both teams fight over a 3rd exos and onos both end up on the field and the teams are competant to not ALL buy exos they can play a strategic part in the game.
An exo walking into a have struggles, an exo stood outside of a hive providing cover for arc/the team to grenade from the door excels.
An onos will never come down a long corridor towards an exo, an onos will think twice before comming down a short corridor towards an exo.
... but yes, well done de-railing your own thread...
Perhaps they are not as fun as HA from NS1, I probably agree... but to disregard it as pointless is just elitist twaddle.
<!--quoteo(post=2012011:date=Nov 6 2012, 02:49 AM:name=Tharidor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tharidor @ Nov 6 2012, 02:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like alot of other players have said "its way to early to start screaming about balance issues" - The most ironic part were the posts that came up within the first two days as "balance issues" - Getting abit sick of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check the general discussion forum mate... You see those posts that were around BEFORE the game was released? Thats cos we have been playing it for the past two years... You may have just got the game and you may think this is how It is and how It has always been but for the last 3-4 months we have had balance/feature updates bi-weekly if not weekly the balance has completely changed from one month to the next and features have come, gone and come back again since its been made.
The balance has been discussed before the release, it was discussed 30 seconds after the release and no doubt it will still be being discussed in a few years time. Get the picture?
Give fades 50 more cara (turns it from 2 full shots into 2.5-3 shotgun shots), remove armouries healing armour (this is the main problem, fades are meant to wear marines down but it doens't work with forward armouries).
Second of all, my "join" date has nothing to do with me not having been in the beta myself and played for months.
Third and for most, most of the posts on the forums at the moment are whiners, on so many aspects of the game that it kinda starts getting repetitiv.
Like alot of other players have said "its way to early to start screaming about balance issues" - The most ironic part were the posts that came up within the first two days as "balance issues" - Getting abit sick of it.
I'm not saying that I'm against change, but some people are just throwing in ideas that are far too ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tharidor, your posts are giving me sad frowns :(. This game is feature complete, and has been balance tweaked vigorously for nearly 2 years. I ordered and played this game while it was still in alpha, and all you could do was shoot non-moving targets. We've been having these in depth balance discussions for years and it has helped shaped the game you are playing and LIKE.
Also, I am not sure if you are aware, but I played in the beta tournament finals with my team "All-In" and we took 2nd place. I have played this game competitively for nearly 2 years now, started my own teams, and helped to build the north american competitive community. I hope that will give you somewhat of an idea of my credentials and where my ideas for the game come from before you go around talking to me like I have never played the game before ;).
Male fatalities... you realize NS1 fade could do exactly what I just proposed? Do you think that didn't work or something? I'm being conservative and even saying fades could take less damage than in NS1.... anything is better than current.
But yes, fades should be able to take 3 shotgun blasts... and I won't take back that statement.
IIRC it took 4 point blank shotgun blasts to kill a fade in NS1.
@ Psymple. Your opinion of me sounds elitist and moronic. :/
The problem is... exo's aren't even needed in the situation you just brought up if the marines were playing with the goal of winning. Even LMG marines can hold an onos off in a long hallway. Exo's are a high maintenance slow piece of junk. 1 drifter + onos = exo ruined.
The exo's just hold your team back in every way. Res that could have been spent on GL's and arc's goes to exos... who cant build, weld, or be beaconed to save base. ROFL exo's are a JOKE.
The balance has been discussed before the release, it was discussed 30 seconds after the release and no doubt it will still be being discussed in a few years time. Get the picture?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is directed at the players that haven't been around for very long. I was around when fades had the dumb icon of itself as the blink and I was screaming my butt off that it wasn't like the ns1 noclip. I just haven't been on the forums and I usually tend to avoid them, especially game forums due to the reason I stated.
Lol then your using your exo wrong.
They are slow and they require to be welded but they have Stupidly Crazy unmatched DPS.
I already proposed that single exo's be given a welder instead of a claw, fixing two of their major flaws.
@Tharidor: Doesn't look to be any indication your post was directed at any group in specific.
Correction, I don't use exos. But let's keep on topic about how fades can be equated to a balsa wood structure.
Then you'll have to excuse me for not making it clear enough (late night posting kinda tends to wear you down :P)
Whats the point? Everyone knows it... it has been made public enough... there have alraedy been 10 topics?
Unless you think this thread is going to magically make the devs listen... why discuss it again?
Maybe if you did you might actually see thier use? Instead of casting them off as pointless?
Gotta bash it into their heads through shear force and time. Hopefully bringing it up enough will make them actually test it for themselves, because lord knows they will never take our word for it.
I mean, it only took years of griping to get them to add the option to remove shaking camera effects. Players worldwide rejoiced and opened bottles of champagne all at the same time, and drank and sang songs of happiness.
I'd have to agree with you on that one. Exo's list of downsides is way longer than the upsides, and the downsides are worse IMO.
As for the actual OP, fade seems to be the most useful in early mid-game before serious armor upgrades. The problem with that is that by the time you can afford a fade through P.Res the marines already have enough of an armor upgrade to put a serious dent in your effectiveness. You also require all three hive upgrades a bit more than the other life forms, excluding skulk of course. This could, of course, be said for all the alien units but it's especially true of the fade due to the steep res cost and default weakness. With the current HP pool of fade it seems they're intended for near-hive defense vs. one or two marines. Either that, or the developers expected more forward gorges than there currently are.
I think a lot of the balance issues stand out a lot less while playing 8 vs. 8 though. For a game balanced around 16 players there sure are a lot of 24 person servers. That's very confusing to me...
Gotta bash it into their heads through shear force and time. Hopefully bringing it up enough will make them actually test it for themselves, because lord knows they will never take our word for it.
I mean, it only took years of griping to get them to add the option to remove shaking camera effects. Players worldwide rejoiced and opened bottles of champagne all at the same time, and drank and sang songs of happiness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Need I bring up the Onos in the room?
Doesn't matter how much you scream and shout they will get around it when they get around to it, 100 posts in a thread or not it will make no diffference.
<!--quoteo(post=2012071:date=Nov 6 2012, 03:32 AM:name=ogz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogz @ Nov 6 2012, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->feel free to keep fades as it is but in return drop it down to 30 res or so, same as a jp shotty marine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, because late game we want even more onos spam... lol
<!--quoteo(post=2012075:date=Nov 6 2012, 03:35 AM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 6 2012, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the current HP pool of fade it seems they're intended for near-hive defense vs. one or two marines. Either that, or the developers expected more forward gorges than there currently are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They lost a large ammount of their ability to be autonomous map wide killing machine due to losing Metabolism... Now they are dependant on returning to the hive to heal, regen is no option due to requiring carapace or a forward gorge... But often he will end up fully drained of energy and will to assist you healing due to you fighting for 10 seconds then returning for him to heal you for 20 seconds...
Male fatalities... you realize NS1 fade could do exactly what I just proposed? Do you think that didn't work or something? I'm being conservative and even saying fades could take less damage than in NS1.... anything is better than current.
But yes, fades should be able to take 3 shotgun blasts... and I won't take back that statement.
IIRC it took 4 point blank shotgun blasts to kill a fade in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm as little interested in your "credentials" as you are in mine.
I couldn't help but to feel that your post just came off as another hitch at the game balances due to bad playing.
I've got mixed feelings about the fade all in all, and just like I stated, I'm not a very good fade.
I was "ok" back in ns1 but I usually was the support "gorge" and the builder "gorge" in ns1 (aka, not the at the front fighter)
I haven't played in any competative games but I have played against good players and somehow been able to preform well with fade.
God damn I cant help starting each sentence with "I" (facepalm)
PS: We need web asap!
At their current state, I strongly agree that Fades are over priced at 50 res. I would like to see their res have a slight reduction -- something like 45 res.
Also, vortex should be reworked or removed. It's a tier 3 ability that serves no purpose and is almost never used. Perhaps another ability could be added in place that, while not buffing the health / armor of the fade, still increased it's survivability.
So you think at late game a 50 res alien, equivalent of a One Minigun Exo, MORE than a JP+shotgun (5x more if you pick up the shotgun)...
Should be killed in 3 hits but take 4 perfect hits to be able to kill a marine? 8 with nano... 12 with nano and med support?
I am glad you think that... /sarcasm
In NS1 though you had 1 fade in a 6v6 game (midgame). NS2 you have tech explosions where 2-3 fades come out all at once. Fades need to be weaker as you simply alot more of them at one time.
So fix the tech explosions, don't screw the fade into oblivion... :|
Fades are not useless. NS2 is not NS1, and the thing that fade can do in NS2 is good for what is needed in NS2.
In NS1, you could not allow marines to lock down hives (tech points). There were only 3 hives, sooner or later you needed all of them. In NS2, for all maps but veil (which as nostalgic as it makes me, is a bad NS2 map), there are 5 tech points. This means that in order to deny an alien team their second tech point via lock down, you must lock down 3 tech points as the marine team. 2 hive lockdowns after competing for the second hive were doable in NS1, locking down the first tech point, and then locking down the second two at the same time is not feasible.
What does this mean? We know marines are defensively strong. If they secure a position, it's hard to get them out of it. The end game should be more than enough evidence for this. We know the opposite is true for aliens. Aliens are strong when marines are moving into new areas, Aliens are strong whenever they are attacking a point at which marine defense is not established. Aliens are basically a force of zerglings vs a Marine force of Seige tanks.
So what is the role of the fade? The fade is your roach. The fade is a beef cake that a single marine cannot stand up against. The fade's single handed presence in an area means that you need more than 2 marines to be in that area to deny it from being there.
Fades should leave push teams alone. Fades can't stop the marines from moving forward any more. And what's more, they don't need to any more. Fades should be everywhere on the map but where there is more than a few marines. If an area ABSOLUTELY needs to be defended, fades can distract marines so skulks can try to kill them, but I'd argue that if there are more than 2 marines within line of site of eachother, fades should never actually try to swipe them. Even 2 marines can be deadly, you have to be skilled to make 2 marines bad against a fade.
Utlimately. Fades are not bad, they just need to be doing different things now. Fades should spend a lot of time near any tech point marines already have that they aren't actively spending time and resources to defend. Fades should take down res nodes. Fades should take down sentry batteries. Fades should take down arms labs and armories. Fades should take down lone wolfs. Fades should <b>NOT</b> get involved in skirmishes.
Winning games is fun, this is why you must do well as a skulk to hold on long enough to get 2nd hive and onos' out the door and win. Its the only way coz the rest of the life forms are crap.
As an onos a gorge or two following you, NAR ###### THAT IM GOING TO HEAL AT THE HIVE ITS MUCH QUICKER. YOUR HEAL IS USELESS