What do I do as a comm?
Zeno
Join Date: 2007-09-05 Member: 62183Members
Join Date: 2007-09-05 Member: 62183Members
<div class="IPBDescription">in the described situation</div>So i tried commanding...everything can go well if the other team is passive or their comm is a beginner or if they are located far away but here's a often repeating scene: As marine comm I push for tech as fast as I can, we get Armslab fast and a fast upgrade WP1 or Armor1. We get 3-4 RTs and tech. I send marines to explore, harass and defend far away RTs.... The aliens are advancing from all possible sides and my marines are having trouble. Far RTs get attacked and aliens keep harassing us in the base.. not a biggie usually but if their start hive is just next to our base it becomes a huge problem. Marines while defending a the base / the place between us and them can't spread out and our outposts get destroyed. Moreover I rarely can get a third techpoint in this situation.. aliens have nearly the same ammount of RTs and control the half of the map (at least)... when EXOs are available they get destroyed fast by Oni (also because they are few - my marines wasted their res for SGs and stuff) and new ones are too expensive by then with only 4 RTs. So here we are, all tech researched, all Upgrades avalable not able to advance because my team either keeps ramboing or just can't organize a single massive attack...and if they try they get stopped pretty hard. This isnt as bad with experienced field players but when I'm with rookies its pretty common... still I think that I as a commander did something wrong. I know I have to push from the beginning but its really hard if the team gets eaten fast and cant hold many points at the same time...
Suggestions?
Suggestions?
Comments
PS: Nasty wall of text. Next time, break it up into several paragraphs. lol :)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
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talk about patronizing
It really makes a difference in my opinion. I don't like having to guess what the commander wants if he/she is a bit too passive. Usually I have to waste time running all the way across the maps to deal with threats that no one is being assigned to.
For example my last game I commanded, was with a team that did what I told them to do. They worked together and everybody was useful. But we lost in the end. Maybe I should have coordinated a push on another hive as I did, maybe our enemy was just better. But anyway. It was a great game, awesome fun and a very nice team.
Btw. try to compliment your team and specific players once in while when you are commander and they achieved something. Boosting the morals of the players makes them more likely to listen to your orders AND play better in general. Morals can win and lose games, most won't believe that. Coms that give a game up by saying all is lost, when it maybe isn't are the worst for the team.
Shameless thread plug: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=123505" target="_blank">Headset highly recommended!</a>
Having your marines in 2 groups, one for attacking and one for defending, depending on the situation usually works very well.
This does require a lot of communicating and player discipline.
It's true though that the OP doesn't obs or phase gates. It's not that weapon and armor upgrades aren't useful, but increased mobility is vital to keep the marines attackign instead of being on the defensive.
It's easy to cap a lot of RTs at the start of the game with marines, but you're going to lose them quickly unless you can actually hold your ground and force the aliens to fight defensively.
Said that if the other side's players are better, there's not much you can do.
About base rushes, observatories are very useful. If the starting bases are close spawns you may want to leave two marines permanently at the base – you usually don't need more, as they'll respawn quickly and can beacon or phase more marines with the observatory or pahse gates if the problem is severe.
Research mines and make your marines put them around infantry portals, power nodes and phase gates. They might moan about not being able to buy exos soon, but they are useful against marauding skulks.
but the actual problem is the point where I have everything researched, 2 bases, some exos (mostly 2) and yet I can't advance.... maybe it's really the players. I just had a game where I did everything right as alien comm yet my team simply refused to play.
I got my mic out from the dust today and tried to use it....doesn't work yet (game? windows? idk). And I'm feelink kind of awkward sitting in my room alone talking to the screen :/
- Keep the team updated on what is about to be researched, what is currently researching and what is about to finish researching
- Do not over extend. If the aliens spawn at a close hive, never grab the resource point(s) between base and their hive - it'll be taken down before it can pay for itself. Instead, I send the marines who would have built that resource point into the hive to take down their resource point
- Don't think you have to get to the end of the tech tree every single game. Half of the games I win as comm are ended by a rush of some sort, well before the prototype lab is even dropped.
- Keep pressure on their hive and resource nodes. The more time they have to spend defending, the more attention you can devote to expanding. Also, the aliens rarely have a lot of resources in the bank. If you can force the alien comm to regularly rebuild, that's less res he has available for hives and upgrade chambers (and onos eggs).
As soon as you realise it's a close-spawns situation, split the team in to two squads: assault and builders. Builders has 2 marines at max, everyone else is in assault. The job of builders is to i) defend & repair bases ii) cap res points. The assault squad will continuously spawn and rush towards flight. They should attack lifeforms, eggs, the harvester and the hive itself. If they put enough pressure on the hive, the aliens will be forced on to the defense. That allows your other two marines to run around the map capping res.
Aside from extractors, the first other thing you want to build is a forward armoury in comp lab to support the assault squad. Then an arms lab and get A1 first and then W1 and shotguns. After that you can start researching phase gates and get the first pair between main base and comp lab - keep maximum pressure on flight hive.
<b>Meta-advice</b>
<ul><li>If your assault squad does its job, this works quite well. If they start to give up and try different things you need to get on the mic and keep explaining the strategy.</li><li>When you split the squad in to two teams, call for volunteers for the builder squad. When selected, name them "Bill and Bob are builders, everyone else is pushing Flight hive". You'll probably want to repeat that game plan 2 or 3 times for the first few minutes as new people join the game.</li><li>If your builders die, get ready to recycle those distant extractors. Learn the shortcut key for recycle. Recycling nets 70% of the cost multiplied by the health of the extractor, so you'll probably get 5 res back by the time it's a bit damaged.</li><li>If the assault squad can't manage to get substantial damage on flight hive and/or if the extractor at comp lab dies a few times it means you're being outplayed. Try to work out why and fix it, but if it's still going bad after the 5-7 minute mark, <b>abandon the strategy</b> and try something else.</li><li>Don't drop ammo for the assault squad unless they're firing on the hive.</li><li>Be vary sparing on medpacks, only drop them where the marines has survived an encounter - don't drop them mid-combat.</li><li>You shouldn't need to scan ahead for your builder team (eg as they move in to data core) because the assault squad should have most of the aliens pinned in flight. The only thing you might want to scan is atrium or crossroads, to see if they've dropped a new hive.</li><li>Get A2 and W2 as quickly as possible</li></ul>
This is especially true for a long-cross situation, but in a close spawn situation you can overextend on the open side of the map if you're good at recycling. To be good at recycling you simply have to spend a lot of time watching the map, waiting for those extractors to start flashing, then instantly recycle them. This means you can't afford to be distracted dropping medpacks/ammo.
<!--quoteo(post=2016002:date=Nov 9 2012, 09:58 AM:name=Mouse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mouse @ Nov 9 2012, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the aliens spawn at a close hive, never grab the resource point(s) between base and their hive - it'll be taken down before it can pay for itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually true, but if you follow my strat then you know you're going to have 4+ marines always running back past there so you should be ok.
Also for cordination, Beaconing all your marines into base, then giving them a waypoint and yelling "HIT THE HIVE" generally works as many pub players are just looking for the action and a massive group of marines can;t be ignored by the aliens.
If the aliens have healing bases just outside of your base that they are using to keep the pressure up, ARCs can clear out many alien forward bases in 1 or 2 shots (try to have 2 or 3)
Flamethrowers: these guys dont really do that much damage, but if you get 1 or 2, they burn away spores and umbra, and sap alien energy regen to the point where they have to run after only a few attacks.
Last I checked you can only Nanoshield "light" marines, not Exo's.
LOL
I played the rest of the game as a skulk and loved it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea... you're being THAT guy....
Anyway, for the OP, if it's the end of the game and aliens have half the map, it's a pretty hard to rebound from situation. It's actually one of the very few times I'd advocate using turrets. If you put some turrets all facing down a hallway you may be able to lure some of their units out and kill them quickly then rush the hive with everyone. But realistically by that point the aliens can probably just keep dropping endless onos eggs so it's kind of a done deal. Your only real hope is to knock out 2 hives so they can't get more onos eggs.
Best way to do that is a dual assault, send about 6 or 7 arcs to the farthest hive from the one you're attacking, and you'll need exos and welders in the other group. Basically the exos job is to keep tons of pressure on the hive by staying in a hallway gunning down everything and occasionally maybe tapping the hive while the welders keep them up. Aliens will probably take all their focus off the other hives so you can set up your arcs and take it down within a few seconds. After that panic hits them the aliens will be a bit confused so that's when you move your arcs to the next hive and push in with exos. Chances are they won't stop the arcs before they get to the next hive and you can do some damage atleast.
Usually, as an alien I'm unable to make the pushes I need mainly because of phase gates. I'm always looking for a vulnerable point in the marine's defenses that they just can't reach in a reasonable timeframe, because I'm usually lucky if I can fight off just one marine as a Skulk. If I find a base, I throw all vulnerabilities of "power nodes" to the wind; the VERY first thing I attack is the Phase Gate.
Also, on some games where I played Marine Commander, I had a similar situation to you. We were doing well, but couldn't reliably expand anywhere. I eventually took the player recommendation of moving into the center of the map, and decided to supply it as heavily as I could - starting with a phase gate. (If you have an armory on the other side, then a phase gate essentially works as a shielded armory). Make sure everyone knows about it, and you'll have a reliable stream of troops that can move forward.
Generally, I feel that if 5 or 6 members of either team stack up with each other as one big force, the resulting marine army will be much more effective than any resulting alien army (as they generally have to spread out to do the most damage) so make sure marines tend to group together. Of course, big groups can't cover a lot of ground at once, which is where phase gates become very useful.
but the actual problem is the point where I have everything researched, 2 bases, some exos (mostly 2) and yet I can't advance.... maybe it's really the players. I just had a game where I did everything right as alien comm yet my team simply refused to play.
I got my mic out from the dust today and tried to use it....doesn't work yet (game? windows? idk). And I'm feelink kind of awkward sitting in my room alone talking to the screen :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can't play properly if they don't have a leader.
I mean, what can you do without a mic? Pinging the map will just get ignored by half of the players and confuse the other half when you ping in multiple places. They won't know when and where to group up or use specific equipment.
Using text chat is too slow and will often be missed by players too busy playing.
Don't Panic.
Mics are essential though, one way or another. And they make the game socially, much, much better.
its good to have an initial plan when you get in the command station, but as soon as it stops working then you need to change up your tactic.
in the OP you've listed a lot of different situations, but there is a way to counter/get through all of them, and its not always the most direct. for example, if your team is being slaughtered in direct battles then you can always try more hit and run style approaches to wear the other team down.
like sneaking in a phase gate to a hive, doing a beacon and make everyone phase thru to rush the hive.
of course if the other team is just plain better, then chances are you will lose, but the skill of your team should determine on what strategy and tactics you as a commander use.
sometimes teching up isn't the best way, sometimes containtment is - i often build turrets just outside of alien hive and an armory so a small group of marines can harass constantly. while the rest of the team captures res.
Then you can make up for the lack tech quickly by getting 2 arms labs going at once while the armory is upgrading etc (because having much of the map means you should have much more res than normal).
you need to get your team to pick their battles too. just because you have exos doesn't mean you'll win. and just because the other team has onos doesn't mean they'll win either. I've been in a match where our team had 5 onos, and they all got cut down, because they ran into 2nd techpoint down a narrow corridor one at a time.
had they of gone to the main marine spawn and hit the power or beacon or phasegate we would have won.
Suggestions?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bascially the problem is only here. get mic and organize.
Open tab and notice alien team having 3x the kills of the marine team.
I'm just sayin' - command chair doesn't give you smarts. If the comm's got the basics, you can't blame him for losing even if he didn't provide 24/7 ultimate leadership. You don't have to go into "cba decision making, comm does that, imma go shoot dun alienoidzzz" -mode.
This will go faster as you think. Even faster if you play on the right servers and have the luck of experiencing a commander that uses his mic to coordinate. As soon as the first players start to speak, other will too. Most fun games are this with many people using their mics and making fun of each other. ;)
If you can't use your mic, you should really have a sergeant. Ask via chat if someone will do it for you. It is not the difficult to order your troops when you are in the battlefield.