Kharaa Life Form Maturity & Evolutions
Robo
Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162637Members
Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162637Members
I want to start off by saying I have been really enjoying this game but I think it could be so much more, especially the evolutions. So here it is, my idea for revamping evolutions and adding life form maturity!
Updated 11/19/2012 @ 8pm
-New Fade Pane
-New Fade Avatar
-New Onos pane coming soon, then commander!
All Kharaa life forms now mature! Surviving for the preset amount of time or acquiring the required amount of hives will evolve your life form to the next level of maturation.
Example: I am a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and I have survived for 4 Minutes, I am Maturation Level 2!
Example: I am a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and I just died! Thankfully we have 2 hives, I respawn as a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> at Maturation Level 1!
<i>* 3 Hives would equal maturation level 2, 4 Hives would equal maturation level 3.</i>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0K5sa.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/aT6Ag.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/T5Bbq.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/A0BzP.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Svkxg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/CXuX1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
You can view the full image <a href="http://i.imgur.com/1m820.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>.
Currently working on mutations and balance.
You can now also get cartoonized versions of concept art as avatars!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ITDgv.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/q5hxT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/OoEbM.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/gM6wY.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Updated 11/19/2012 @ 8pm
-New Fade Pane
-New Fade Avatar
-New Onos pane coming soon, then commander!
All Kharaa life forms now mature! Surviving for the preset amount of time or acquiring the required amount of hives will evolve your life form to the next level of maturation.
Example: I am a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and I have survived for 4 Minutes, I am Maturation Level 2!
Example: I am a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and I just died! Thankfully we have 2 hives, I respawn as a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> at Maturation Level 1!
<i>* 3 Hives would equal maturation level 2, 4 Hives would equal maturation level 3.</i>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0K5sa.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/aT6Ag.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/T5Bbq.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/A0BzP.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Svkxg.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/CXuX1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
You can view the full image <a href="http://i.imgur.com/1m820.jpg" target="_blank">here</a>.
Currently working on mutations and balance.
You can now also get cartoonized versions of concept art as avatars!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/ITDgv.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/q5hxT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/OoEbM.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/gM6wY.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
Definetly going to be looking into some really unique modifiers for each life form, stay tuned and check out the new infographic!
I do, however, enjoy the line of thinking, and as we can tell from my little <a href="http://i.imgur.com/T8Y07.png" target="_blank">thing</a>, I'm a HUGE fan of giving aliens new abilities and lots of ways to personally 'trick out their rides'.
You also risk encouraging players to play <i>too</i> defensively, by giving them even more reasons to not want to overextended / push themselves, as well as the obvious problem of people just sitting around AFK so they can get their next maturity level.
Though looking at those numbers, I would certainly hope you have ideas to give Marine's some love too (so they remain competitive, and fun to play). And to that point, perhaps this would be better suited as a mod, rather than changing the core game? Not that it would bother me, mind you. I would be perfectly fine with seeing substantial changes like these being incorporated into the game (after rigorous testing), in the hopes of bringing even more uniqueness to each species, and further, to each individual player (especially if players get to branch off even further, customizing as they see fit). However I can already imagine some NS purists/vets being very annoyed at such sweeping changes.
Another thing to consider is that this would add yet another layer of experience required by new players to master (specifically for new Comms). It could stretch the gap between new & experienced Comms even farther than it already is, which could further dissuade new blood from even giving the Commander role a shot (which I've already been noticing, unfortunately). I'm honestly tired of easy games that hold your hand through every little detail, so it doesn't bother me personally. Challenge & high learning curves are far more rewarding to me, but I would never pretend to speak for the community. Looking forward to seeing what others think of your idea(s).
Ultimately, I do like your suggestions, and I wouldn't mind seeing some form of them in-game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing I don't like with the 'maturity' idea is that it does present something of a slippery slope, in that a really good player with a Fade does nothing but become better and better at it. If the marines had a hard time dealing with him before, after a few minutes he now has even more armor and health and new abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This problem is already in play for the marines, they get stronger and stronger while you stay essentially unchanged. I think the way I handled maturation would even the playing field while not disrupting the asymmetry of the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do, however, enjoy the line of thinking, and as we can tell from my little thing, I'm a HUGE fan of giving aliens new abilities and lots of ways to personally 'trick out their rides'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree more customization would be a great addition allowing players to explore life forms they wouldn't normally play because it doesn't match their play style. This change would allow the player to customize that life form to suit their play style!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You also risk encouraging players to play too defensively, by giving them even more reasons to not want to overextended / push themselves, as well as the obvious problem of people just sitting around AFK so they can get their next maturity level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was planning on replying yesterday but this really got me thinking and I ended up modifying my original post because of it. You now acquire maturity not from surviving alone but also from expanding, every additional hive grants one free level of maturation for your team.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->@gibsauce<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though looking at those numbers, I would certainly hope you have ideas to give Marine's some love too (so they remain competitive, and fun to play).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have lots of cool Ideas for marines, stay tuned!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And to that point, perhaps this would be better suited as a mod, rather than changing the core game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree my original post was quite radical but hopefully when you see the new evolution's i have been working on perhaps this would change your mind.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However I can already imagine some NS purists/vets being very annoyed at such sweeping changes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am by no means a purist as you can see, but I would describe myself a vet. After playing untold hours of NS way back when I was surprised to see the evolution's almost completely unchanged. To me these evolutionary upgrades are a relic of the past and I hope to inspire UWE to not make the mistake a lot of popular games make when creating sequels and that is not improving upon systems set in place in previous versions.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ultimately, I do like your suggestions, and I wouldn't mind seeing some form of them in-game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->:)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Going to be posting a large update today, will include all of the evolution upgrades for every life form and information on mutations!
Let me know what you think!
wat
wat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you spend your evolution point in T2 Crag you get both Carapace and Overburdened.
For example the <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Skulk<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
-Current max statistics with carapace: 70hp 30armor
-New max statistics with Crag T2 and M3: 100hp 50armor with reduced speed
Ideally for such a strong evolution there should be some sort of trade off for boosting your statistics so significantly. Please let me know more of what you are thinking, I want to attack this from all angles.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Those are interesting ideas for a mod, Robo!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, although I am curious as to why you think it could only be implemented as a mod. I would like to take some time to explore the concerns you have for implementing these ideas to NS2.
<i>*Please note I am still working on this idea and it will become more cohesive as time allows.</i>
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->@ B1lly<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->good ideas, really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks B1lly, let me know if you have any ideas or concerns <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->:)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
-Detailed information on ambush and waylay for each life form added (bottom right of the life forms pane).
-Skulk mutations added.
Concerns and criticism welcome.
The in game tool tips don't necessarily need to show you exactly what they change and just give you a vague description instead. Although with that said I think having the information available to the player would help them make informed decisions.
All in all I think you bring up a good point, perhaps tool tips and how the information is displayed to the player should be explored. That will be what I work on next after finishing the mutations.
Perhaps it could be added that each kill will lower time you need to evolve. This way you are encouraged to be in the field instead of waiting for evolution to come. Another option can be that time is lowered if you stay near another lifeform, so it encourages teamplay.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the bottom line is that as time will make you evolve, it could bring an edge to players playing for themselves instead of the team..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Currently the main factor of evolution is time, the time required can be altered by choosing the shift tree after reaching maturity 1 which would reduce the amount of time required for maturity 2 and maturity 3 by 50%. On top of receiving maturation from time you can also get it from expanding and growing; extra hives increase your starting maturation level.
I think it would promote team play because of safety in numbers. More often then not attacking by yourself is going to get you killed which is what you are trying to prevent especially as a higher life form. Being a part of the team would not only benefit you personally (evolution) but would also benefit the team (expansion and map control).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps it could be added that each kill will lower time you need to evolve<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this would negatively impact the alien team and further increase the gap of new players vs veterans.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This way you are encouraged to be in the field instead of waiting for evolution to come. Another option can be that time is lowered if you stay near another lifeform, so it encourages teamplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be nice to have time reduction benefits for doing team based tasks. With that said I also see that it would be incredibly complex with too many possible variables.
-Updated example pane
-Concept Art section
<i>*Will eventually be added to life form panes
</i>
Venom Glands for the Skulk
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/9Uy9L.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
-Mutations for each life form
-New layout for each life form
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/sWSw1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
Thanks, although I am curious as to why you think it could only be implemented as a mod. I would like to take some time to explore the concerns you have for implementing these ideas to NS2.
<i>*Please note I am still working on this idea and it will become more cohesive as time allows.</i>
.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the ideas. I actually bookmarked your post to watch the development! What twiliteblue seems to be saying is that it differs from the ns2 gameplay, which is not a bad thing. Your style seems to be embracing the role-playing element of the rolebased/fps/rts of natural selection 2. Which is cool. ns2 at the moment is a mod itself based on original ns1. The features that we see are more engine based, the gameplay is the devs take game they want it to be or the flavor of the game. Looking at the ns2 community there seems to be a few mods or flavors on ns2:
ns2 vanilla, ns2 classic, ns2 combat.
The differences:
Overarching they are all multiplayer.
ns2 vanillia - A symetrically based rts and an asymmetrically based fps ~fast game-play
ns2 combat - symmetrical role-based fps ~extremely fast game-play
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111818" target="_blank">Ns2 combat form page</a>
ns2 classic - symmetrical rts based combined with an aliens role-based fps and a marine fps. ~medium game-play
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121482" target="_blank">Ns2 classic form page</a>
To compare your flavor on the game, yours is leaning more towards ns2 classic, however, differs in that it is symmetrical rts/fps/role-based game and does not have the asymmetrical components of ns2 classic.
Flavor yet to be named: ~medium to slower game-play
Aliens are role-based fps
Marines are role-based fps
Rts is symmetrical (rts element is extended as far as abilities and strategy)
In a small map this might have a huge learning curve and might restrict strategy. However, in a slightly bigger map like map like <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116703" target="_blank">goliath </a>, this might be perfect. Of course in order to see any of this even if you wanted this to be the new ns2 vanilla or a new flavor there has to be a proof of concept. Which I hope i can play sometime soon. Perhaps consider posting this in the modding section.
Btw your concept maps are awesome ns2 really needs some of these. All the tech trees in ns2 combat/vanilla/classic are confusing for new players and need visuals.
<div align='center'><img src="http://i.imgur.com/T5Bbq.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
Muahaha I can see it now, cloaked spider gorges detaching from ceilings landing on an unsuspecting marine and holding them in place for your hydra's and teamates!
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->@lifesfun<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the ideas. I actually bookmarked your post to watch the development!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I am actually really enjoying coming up with these ideas!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which I hope i can play sometime soon. Perhaps consider posting this in the modding section.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great suggestion, never even crossed my mind and that will be the first thing I do as this idea gets closer to completion.
Also, because your Gorge thread got buried a little, and I couldn't find it, I think that Gorges should have access to another structure. It would be called a hatchery, and it would serve the same function as the egg laying shift right now. The shift would speed up energy regen and movement speed, and the Gorge would gain a great 10 Pres structure. It would automatically lay eggs, but at a slow pace. If a player were nearby, they could press use on the hatchery, which would take a small amount of Pres, but would spawn eggs at a ridiculous rate for a couple seconds.
Seriously though, those are some badass ideas. Perfect for a mod :D.
<img src="http://i47.tinypic.com/34rzo6c.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->@Crumbling Ego<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These are really freaking cool :D. Though I would like to see them in a mod before they are put in game, just to see how they play out. But seriously though, these seem really fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I would also love to see these in a mod and will be making a post for it in the near future.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, because your Gorge thread got buried a little, and I couldn't find it, I think that Gorges should have access to another structure. It would be called a hatchery, and it would serve the same function as the egg laying shift right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That thread is <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122060" target="_blank">here</a> although I am going to be melding a lot of those ideas here for one comprehensive mega thread. As for extra buildings for gorges I agree they need some love.
Going to be exploring more options for the alien commander and buildings for gorges when I finish with the mutations, especially since these changes would remove a lot of tech from the commander.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->@fornaxxx<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alien needs variety, the lerk and fade are useless without upgrades, they will make you play completely defensive and be near useless without complete mastery of the unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All alien life forms require quite a bit of skill to play successfully except for maybe the Onos. You should check out the mutations I have just posted for the Lerk and let me know what you think.