What About Balancing In 1.04?
Naughty_Brembo
Join Date: 2002-05-30 Member: 701Members
Join Date: 2002-05-30 Member: 701Members
<div class="IPBDescription">-not asking for rocket launchers</div> Ok, I know this has been debated to death and I´m now putting on my flame-protective clothing...
Does anyone else feel that NS is currently very unbalanced in favour of the aliens? I got quite worried when I saw the lack of balancing in the new beta...something needs to be done before people start leaving.
With "unbalanced" I simply mean that aliens are winning too often...it doesn´t mean the game in itself is unbalanced. There´s a difference, if you think about it.
(And no, I´m not one of those guys who wants to be an unstoppable marine, I just want the games a bit more even. In fact, I like playing Alien more, but I still wish the marines had a better chance...it´s getting boring to slaughter the marines over and over again.)
On public servers that I play, Aliens are now winning something like 8-9 games out of every 10.
Do you think it is because:
a) Marine teams have more newbie players = skilled players chose to play alien (IMO: partly true)
or
b) Maps are unbalanced (IMO: not true)
or
c) Species are unbalanced (IMO: partly true)
I know what will happen now: All players who like to play as aliens will tell me to STFU and stop crying...you obviously haven´t understood that I´m mostly an alien player myself. And please spare me from all the "with a good commander and playing as a team the marines win"-speeches...I know already. I´m just saying it isn´t happening a lot. Stop being so afraid of admitting that the marines have a tougher time out there...you´re not being honest. Maybe the game in itself is perfectly balanced, but it´s just not working out in the pub severs.
Maybe the mod is balanced for clan tourny matches (because with a REALLY strong marine TEAM and a good commander the playing field is more or less even) but this decision is in fact ruining public play...in my opinion.
eh...I know I´m just ranting but this is my look on it and I´m sticking to it.
What do you guys think?
/NB
Note: I am NOT asking for any alien nerfing or power-ups to any marine weapon...I´m just asking you to acknowledge that aliens are winning far too many games as it is right now. (And you KNOW they are!) I´m leaving the solutions to the dev team and ask people to refrain from posting balancing suggestions in this topic, just let me know if you think the game´s unbalanced.
Does anyone else feel that NS is currently very unbalanced in favour of the aliens? I got quite worried when I saw the lack of balancing in the new beta...something needs to be done before people start leaving.
With "unbalanced" I simply mean that aliens are winning too often...it doesn´t mean the game in itself is unbalanced. There´s a difference, if you think about it.
(And no, I´m not one of those guys who wants to be an unstoppable marine, I just want the games a bit more even. In fact, I like playing Alien more, but I still wish the marines had a better chance...it´s getting boring to slaughter the marines over and over again.)
On public servers that I play, Aliens are now winning something like 8-9 games out of every 10.
Do you think it is because:
a) Marine teams have more newbie players = skilled players chose to play alien (IMO: partly true)
or
b) Maps are unbalanced (IMO: not true)
or
c) Species are unbalanced (IMO: partly true)
I know what will happen now: All players who like to play as aliens will tell me to STFU and stop crying...you obviously haven´t understood that I´m mostly an alien player myself. And please spare me from all the "with a good commander and playing as a team the marines win"-speeches...I know already. I´m just saying it isn´t happening a lot. Stop being so afraid of admitting that the marines have a tougher time out there...you´re not being honest. Maybe the game in itself is perfectly balanced, but it´s just not working out in the pub severs.
Maybe the mod is balanced for clan tourny matches (because with a REALLY strong marine TEAM and a good commander the playing field is more or less even) but this decision is in fact ruining public play...in my opinion.
eh...I know I´m just ranting but this is my look on it and I´m sticking to it.
What do you guys think?
/NB
Note: I am NOT asking for any alien nerfing or power-ups to any marine weapon...I´m just asking you to acknowledge that aliens are winning far too many games as it is right now. (And you KNOW they are!) I´m leaving the solutions to the dev team and ask people to refrain from posting balancing suggestions in this topic, just let me know if you think the game´s unbalanced.
Comments
ANd yes i strongly agree that aliens win far too foten, marines only hope in public game is to have a good comm AND the aliens have a stupid gorge. If marines stood a better chance it would add a lot of challenge to the game, because currently marines have 8minutes (or less...) to secure 2 hives before fades arrive, and since aliens get fades real quick (with a half decent gorge) and marines still with LA LMG, its very hard for marines to build up a base expand and get good weapons.
I can't wait for the comm to not know where the hives are.. but you can still listen for resource nodes, hope Flayra thought of that...
If the marines grap one hive, tech to HMG's and HA, and then fight the fades, they win, plain and simple.
Of course, very few comms want to stop to tech up to heavy weapons.
You cannot figt fades with LMG/LA, you need HMG's at least.
I like NS, always have, but with each patch I see the Marine class fade more and more way into appeal by most players. I'm going to take a break from NS for a while, until I see a game more balanced, and not so many Marine nerfs.
<b>Used</b> to... there's a reason I don't anymore.
Good marines beats good aliens.
Most players suck. Ergo, aliens usually win.
Like I said, I need to get some more time in with 1.04, but all these obsticals seem small for a good player to overcome. These balance changes will only hurt inexperianced players, as far as I can tell.
As for a team that has a crappy gorge pulling off wins? Yeah, it's called playing against horribly incompetent commanders and or marines. I'm sorry, but I've been reamed to death by way too many crappy gorges to agree with that comment. Gorge suck? Then you better have some damn skulk shock troopers on your team to save your **obscenity**.
I've seen many short games and quite a few deadlocks between excellent marines AND Kharaa teams...with quite varied results throughout. The game isn't unbalanced, it just needs some tweaking.
I only ever play the marines If I have to or if I am on the server with a group of friends who I know and trust will follow orders.
Long story short:
aliens = whooweee kickbutt
marines = hahahaha...run girly man! ARGH AN ALIEN!
I agree with Kitsune that
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It really boils down to which side is on the ball. One big screw-up on either side will lose them the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One weak player on either side can have a huge role in the upset of the game.
Thats more of the cause that people REFUSE to use anything but Def in the start... if you KNOW theyre going to rush, get cloaking or silence and bite their arses off.
Bye.
1.Too many n00bs on marines.Due to auto help.
2.1 marine refusing to obey orders weakens the marine team significantly,1 alien refusing to work together with the rest doesnt.Unfornately at least 2 people on marines ALWAYS refuse to obey orders,which kinda tilts the scale towards the aliens.
3.If the marine commander sucks,oops,you lose unless the aliens suck too.If your gorg sucks,you can at least get another one,albiet,you get res slower but you have a chance.
4.By the time you realise comm sucks,it is too late.Damage done.Not true with aliens.
5.It is far easier to get fades than get Hmg/ha for an entire team.
6.If server lags,marines are at a disadvantage.Try hitting skulks when lagging.Extremely hard to do.
7.Certain maps also have things in favour for the aliens and same with marines.
P.S.People who rush need to stop playing warcraft,red alert and starcraft where you HAVE to rush to win.
a) Your statement is not entirely true (anyone can come on here and say "THIS RACE ALWAYS WINS! I SEE IT EVERY DAY!").
b) You can't analyze game balance just by pubbing.
c) There are always tons more newbs/griefers/jackasses from CS (not to say that all CS players are jackasses) on marines than on kharaa. Strange but true.
I'd also like to register the following: The area effect of the siege cannon is stupid. Not for realistic reasons, but for game balance ones. The farking explosion is half the size of the moon, and seems to very effectively kill anything anywhere near it. My special favorite is entering an empty (of EVERYTHING) hive room via some lesser-used roads, taking a quick look around and seeing no one, dropping a res tower, and exploding. How painfully retarded. We're talking short-bus, tinted window retarded here. There is no way in hell any marine unit, or their commander, or God himself could have known that that structure had been built. Not to mention the astonishing capacity for that siege to track 76 degrees in 35 milliseconds. The gun doesn't LOOK that light. Anyway, the end result is a zero-effort win against an invisible target. So invisible, in fact, that I can guarantee none of the marines in proximity to the cannon probably had any clue that anything was going on. As I said, stupid. Thankfully I won't have to author long-winded and pointless rants about this stupid gun in the future. At least, I hope. If I see a marine knifing the hive while it gets sieged, and I try to attack him, and I get killed by the siege's area effect, and the marine doesn't, I swear upon all that could be good about this game, I will hunt you down Flayra, I will hunt you down and I will <i>smack</i> you.
Other than that, I pretty much just want to see people shut the holy hell up. This game is, as far as I can discern, pretty balanced when it comes to individual troops abilities. I can think of some changes that could and probably should be made in various places (like everyone's favorite structure, the sensory chamber), but for the most part each race has its strengths and its weaknesses and when played to those respective strengths each has the capability to succeed. Except for the game-breaking siege.
I also encourage the purchasing of upgrades as Terran. It's the gift that keeps on giving. And I just can't see it being too expensive. Can't remember the exact number, but a third level upgrade costs roughly the same as outfitting one HA/HMG trooper. Seems like buying something once that confers a comfortable bonus to everyone for free is a better buy. The LMG can be quite deadly in the hands of someone with good aim when it is fully upgraded.
---
I'd also like to make a short digression here, in response to a pointless and poorly informed, hell, practically idiotic post by some twit in regards to the concept of aiming. Good sir, should you read this, I can most definitely assure you that there is oodles more to aiming that just <i>moving the mouse</i>. <b>Oodles</b>. If you aren't hitting anything, its because your aim sucks. Period.
Merry Christmas Eve. And I've been up far too long. And we'll see soon, any which way, once the patch hits mainstream.
i also agree with other posts that most noobs play marines which is frustrating. also i find that most good players play aliens more often (dont know why, maybe they dont like taking orders).
lastly i think marines have to alter their strategies when faced with the fade base siege that inevetiably occurs. it's not all over at this point. a few marines with welders and some turrets and ha can hold out for a long time against fades, the rest should be counterattacking hives.
Acheron: Exactly, I´m ONLY analyzing pub play, not overall game balance. I thought that point was very clearly stated in my original post.
Furthermore: Even if the marines can "easily" win by phase rushing/HMG push, this does NOT mean the game is perfectly balanced. It only means that the balance "start-game" is different from balance "mid-game". Sure, the marines have the edge (if they don´t build stuff!) in the first minutes, but when the fades show up the tables are turned...
again, thx all for replying although quite a few turned out to be biased alien players.
/NB
thats three +'s to the aliens with nothing for the marines.. on the other hand, outside of the first two weeks this game came public, i have NEVER lost a game as a commander, and sometimes (by sometimes i mean when i have marines that actually communicate, function in a team, and use combinations of weapons while in groups, like 2HA HMG, 1 HA GL and 2 LA/JP LMG rushers) when i sit in the chair it seems WAY too easy for marines.
I think the changes to the infantry portal and phase cost are fine, the phase hp change isn't needed, and I think they will realize that soon enough, and change. The easiest way to beat phase rushes is with celerety or silence, but that means getting movement first, and you are called a noob as a gorge if you do that.
I dont think the game is totally out of balance now, the biggest imbalance is skill, and the team with more experienced players always wins.
As far as the whole "can't beat fades with lmg/la" thats a crock. The noobs always complain about fades, as they dont know how to beat them..
1/1 armor/weapon upgrades are more then enough to combat fades, with lmg/la you just cannot let them run away and heal, but 95% of players are just happy to see the fades run away, and take that as a victory. They are to dumb to realize the fade is just running away to heal, and you will see him again soon enough. Chase the fade down even to your own death, but dont let him just run away a few steps and heal, kill him. it's not like you dont respawn or anything, go kill him.. The biggest mistake people make is thinking fades can be pushed back with sentries, that is not true. Fades eat sentries for breakfast,lunch and dinner. Marines kill fades, not sentries, end of story.
captmorgan: I know how to frag them fades, just hunt their slimy butts down a hallway...the problem is 90% of marine players do not. Hence, games tend to get unbalanced IN REALITY, regardless of the THEORETICAL BALANCE where all marines are always considered veterans...
/NB
and there are lots of things that can be said about this topic.
That being said, I generally play on two servers, going alien 99% of the time, and believe it or not,
on one server its always garantueed alien victory, but on the other server I can be just as sure the marines are going to cram us in a corner within minutes. Both are public.
Whats causing this? I really have no clue.
Its easy to see the marines have to work harder to get there, but when they do, its devastating.
Well commanded and teamed-up marines are a scary sight indeed.
I just hope the devs let the people play for some time and leave the balance fixes for what they are, till the people really know what makes this game tick.
Got the feeling too many come screaming to the boards when they have just lost and those laments are being heard. Two good teams can create great matches.
Kinda like the last charge of King Theoden. You've got nothing to lose, and everything to gain. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->