compared to the marine comm, alien is extremely boring. all you do is spread creep and get upgrades. you have no influence over the battle whereas the marine comm does.
<!--quoteo(post=2019281:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:19 PM:name=despair)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (despair @ Nov 10 2012, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->compared to the marine comm, alien is extremely boring. all you do is spread creep and get upgrades. you have no influence over the battle whereas the marine comm does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's why the alien comm really doesn't need to be in the hive much at all. When I comm I usually drop a hive, a harvester, and then gorge and build the hive. There's really no reason for alien comm to sit in the hive the entire game. You can't drop health and ammo like marine comm or do scans or anything so you might as well help your team with gorge support or skulk if you can. Also I typically command from where I dropped the upgrades so I can defend them.
I kind of think that's the point of the alien com unfortunately.
The marine com is almost like a guardian angel type role in a fight. He protects fighters with health and nanoshields, and supports their movements with scans.
The alien com is more of a poisonous presence in a fight. During an invasion, he can erect bone walls to hinder the marines. Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more 'instant trap' type commands like the bone wall. The aliens should be strange and unpredictable to the marines, and I think giving the com the power to screw the marines in strange ways would fit that.
At the same time, it shouldn't be too powerful. The com should never be too focused on participating in fights. The ultimate role of the com is to control the map. Controlling the map, buying upgrades, and getting your men the res they need to do well is the com's primary role. Participating in fights is secondary.
<!--quoteo(post=2019298:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:42 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 11 2012, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For me, commanding marines is way more boring *shrug*.
Drifters, bone wall, misting, spreading infestation, popping cysts, making shifts/shades all keep me fairly entertained.
What gets old is "medpack... medpack... medpack. Need a medpack over here... Commander, I need ammo."
I feel like with marines I'm babysitting, whereas with aliens I'm actually commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this, really. Control Drifters to help kill a bunch of marines or siege a CC, pop Cysts to obscure the vision of marines, building retreat points of Crags, Shifts and Shades, use Bone Walls to not let marines who's pushing to your base to not retreat, and use Nutrient Mist to speed up the evolution of Fade and Onos eggs.
I love being Khammander over a Commander because of exactly the reason HeatSurge mentioned; you're more or less babysitting marines, while also being much more dependent on them early game.
Don't forget about activating Shades and Crags. They can really turn the tide of a battle if the timing is right. Whips, while not the most cost-efficient investment, can still be micro-managed to be useful all game long, or until they get sniped.
<!--quoteo(post=2019281:date=Nov 11 2012, 01:19 AM:name=despair)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (despair @ Nov 11 2012, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->all you do is spread creep and get upgrades. you have no influence over the battle whereas the marine comm does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Alien com has plenty to keep one busy. It would be nice to have something that allows you to interact with a fight, even if its not as spammy as medpacks. Bonewall is pretty lame for the only option.
<!--quoteo(post=2019298:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:42 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 10 2012, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For me, commanding marines is way more boring *shrug*.
Drifters, bone wall, misting, spreading infestation, popping cysts, making shifts/shades all keep me fairly entertained.
What gets old is "medpack... medpack... medpack. Need a medpack over here... Commander, I need ammo."
I feel like with marines I'm babysitting, whereas with aliens I'm actually commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
drifter's can be quite fun AND useful in the endgame, but if you make them early - mid game, you are failing, same goes for shifts / shades if you are spamming(note word spamming, if you plant well positioned shift and eggs with it it can turn the tide of the game) them, you are just wasting resources because your team needs upgrades and fade / onos eggs ASAP, it's the players that wins the games, not turrets or shades etc. And whips are the most useless building in the game, the way they are now they should cost 5res each, but 15 is just waste.
spreading infestation can be fun, but in earlygame it's the same rule as drifters, if you spam them early game you're just wasting valuable resources and delaying upgrades.
in conclusion, i have most fun playing khammander when in endgame when all upgrades are done and some onos eggs planted, that's when you can actually interact to the battles, in early - mid game being khammander is just waiting resources, nothing else.
OP you obviously don't know what you are talking about if you think making cysts and choosing upgrades is the only thing the alien commander can do. Fail thread.
An early drifter or two can be very successful for scouting and enzymes, as well as well-placed whips (even though I agree, I don't like spending res on whips before at least 2nd hive and most if not all upgrades bought). I feel like hardly anybody understands how to play Alien (yet?). Whips and hydras aren't meant to be left alone. They are useless when they are left alone - the same way that turrets are useless if left alone. The power of alien structures (and infestation to some extent) is either to be healed by a gorge or to tank damage and enable aliens to attack when marines are distracted by shooting at structures.
Also, spending resources to completely infest an area is an awesome way to make marines waste valuable time clearing it up for structures. It's very strategic, but it does work quite well.
Also, I'm finding that most if not all of the game, there's something to do - except certain maps like Veil when there's some clear downtime in the beginning of the game (which I usually use to go gorge and place my hydras somewhere around the hive anyway).
Yeah, I prefer playing khammander a lot over commander. I usually play it more often than alien itself because often nobody actually wants to go khammander for whatever reason, so I take the spot.
<!--quoteo(post=2019281:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:19 PM:name=despair)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (despair @ Nov 10 2012, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->compared to the marine comm, alien is extremely boring. all you do is spread creep and get upgrades. you have no influence over the battle whereas the marine comm does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
clearly you've never used bone walls, hallucinations or shift teleportation
<!--quoteo(post=2019481:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:49 PM:name=Soulfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 11 2012, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->clearly you've never used bone walls, hallucinations or shift teleportation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you use teleportation for? I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame. but that's it. do you use it to teleport whips into the marine base? takes too long and whips off infestation can not attack.
<!--quoteo(post=2019640:date=Nov 11 2012, 03:21 PM:name=Sehzade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sehzade @ Nov 11 2012, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you use teleportation for? I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That, to save T.Res. But most importantly, save upgrades. Send Shell, Spur and Veil to another Hive when the Hive they're currently at is under attack.
<!--quoteo(post=2019640:date=Nov 11 2012, 09:21 AM:name=Sehzade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sehzade @ Nov 11 2012, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you use teleportation for? I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame. but that's it. do you use it to teleport whips into the marine base? takes too long and whips off infestation can not attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I keep an Echo Shift near my upgrades usually (Shells, Veils, Spurs) and echo them if there's even the remotest chance they'll be attacked. I'd rather spend a little res to move them back and forth than have to replace them. Plus it pisses marines off.
Yeah, I always scratch my head in confusion when I see the "alien khamm is boooooorrrrrring" threads. Maybe in the beginning, but you should be gorging stuff up at that point anyway. Later in the game, there's tons of stuff to do.
<!--quoteo(post=2019294:date=Nov 11 2012, 01:30 AM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 11 2012, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it can't. Mist has no effect on build times, only maturity. Yes, I've tested it.
In all my games ive never seen any of these abilties used even once. Bone wall, Enzyme, and Hallucination. What do each one do ?. Bone wall, a wall of bone? permanently? i assume.
Seems like if you can block of stuff with a wall of bones why it isnt used more instead of the annoying clogs, which are frustrating to place, easily killed and can only place 10 of.
It's pretty one dimensional in the sense that there's a most effective way to do it, and against a coordinated marine team with equal skill, straying from this might not work out so well. Though I guess the same can be said for marine commanding.
I actually enjoy alien commanding a lot more than marine. It's a lot less stressful. And once I've got everybody everything they want I can just start building bombard whips and an echo shift.
Unfortunately the game is usually over by the time I get to use them though :( But it's always funny when it happens.
<!--quoteo(post=2020155:date=Nov 11 2012, 06:09 PM:name=RMJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RMJ @ Nov 11 2012, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020155"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In all my games ive never seen any of these abilties used even once. Bone wall, Enzyme, and Hallucination. What do each one do ?. Bone wall, a wall of bone? permanently? i assume.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, Bone Wall is not permanent. It's something like 3-5 seconds, with a 5-10 second cooldown (too lazy to look these numbers up, but it's fairly short and you can't spam it). Marines can shoot it to make it disappear even faster.
Enzyme is an ability that drifters have which speeds up alien attacks. Not so useful in combat (given that you typically want to time attacks, not spam), but amazing against structures. If you ever find a red aura on your body, you're being enzymed.
Hallucination is the upgrade ability on shades. It makes fake units and structures, but the units can't fake attack or walk on walls or anything that real players would do, and the fake buildings are bugged and spawn as unbuilt structures that never build (supposed to be fixed next build, IIRC), so they're easy to spot. They are all also instantly killed by a scan and have very low health (fake onos dies in maybe half a clip). And they cost res, typically far more than a scan does, at least if you plan on using more than one or two (I think fake onos is 5, fake hive is 15(!!)), and have a lowish lifetime (1-2 minutes), so there's rarely any reason to ever use them. You could try a fake base rush with them (and one or two actual units to actually attack and get attention), but against a competent comm that <i>might</i> work once, if at all (they can just scan before beaconing). Granted, once might be all you need...
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=2019294:date=Nov 11 2012, 05:30 PM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 11 2012, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kind of think that's the point of the alien com unfortunately.
The marine com is almost like a guardian angel type role in a fight. He protects fighters with health and nanoshields, and supports their movements with scans.
The alien com is more of a poisonous presence in a fight. During an invasion, he can erect bone walls to hinder the marines. Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more 'instant trap' type commands like the bone wall. The aliens should be strange and unpredictable to the marines, and I think giving the com the power to screw the marines in strange ways would fit that.
At the same time, it shouldn't be too powerful. The com should never be too focused on participating in fights. The ultimate role of the com is to control the map. Controlling the map, buying upgrades, and getting your men the res they need to do well is the com's primary role. Participating in fights is secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2019357:date=Nov 11 2012, 10:32 AM:name=Juomari)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juomari @ Nov 11 2012, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...And whips are the most useless building in the game, the way they are now they should cost 5res each, but 15 is just waste.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I beg to differ, having a whip can hold off an attack long enough for skulks to get in and defend or at the very least you'll get a few kills. Whips dont just serve a practical role, just knowing there are 1 or 2 whips will prevent a single marine from running in and cutting a cyst chain to a harvester. The moral impact is huge and if the marine decides to attack the whip it'll be with his primary weapon and deplete him of ammo ready for your players to regain map control.
If you have a shade then whips become an even more powerful defencive structure. Not to mention their passive ability to reflect grenades can allow a defencive position to hold out 25% longer against a seige ignoring the fact those marines will have to retreat from self damage due to reflected grenades.
Comments
That's why the alien comm really doesn't need to be in the hive much at all. When I comm I usually drop a hive, a harvester, and then gorge and build the hive. There's really no reason for alien comm to sit in the hive the entire game. You can't drop health and ammo like marine comm or do scans or anything so you might as well help your team with gorge support or skulk if you can. Also I typically command from where I dropped the upgrades so I can defend them.
The marine com is almost like a guardian angel type role in a fight. He protects fighters with health and nanoshields, and supports their movements with scans.
The alien com is more of a poisonous presence in a fight. During an invasion, he can erect bone walls to hinder the marines. Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more 'instant trap' type commands like the bone wall. The aliens should be strange and unpredictable to the marines, and I think giving the com the power to screw the marines in strange ways would fit that.
At the same time, it shouldn't be too powerful. The com should never be too focused on participating in fights. The ultimate role of the com is to control the map. Controlling the map, buying upgrades, and getting your men the res they need to do well is the com's primary role. Participating in fights is secondary.
Drifters, bone wall, misting, spreading infestation, popping cysts, making shifts/shades all keep me fairly entertained.
What gets old is "medpack... medpack... medpack. Need a medpack over here... Commander, I need ammo."
I feel like with marines I'm babysitting, whereas with aliens I'm actually commanding.
Drifters, bone wall, misting, spreading infestation, popping cysts, making shifts/shades all keep me fairly entertained.
What gets old is "medpack... medpack... medpack. Need a medpack over here... Commander, I need ammo."
I feel like with marines I'm babysitting, whereas with aliens I'm actually commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much this, really. Control Drifters to help kill a bunch of marines or siege a CC, pop Cysts to obscure the vision of marines, building retreat points of Crags, Shifts and Shades, use Bone Walls to not let marines who's pushing to your base to not retreat, and use Nutrient Mist to speed up the evolution of Fade and Onos eggs.
I love being Khammander over a Commander because of exactly the reason HeatSurge mentioned; you're more or less babysitting marines, while also being much more dependent on them early game.
Fail comm if thats what u think.
Drifters, bone wall, misting, spreading infestation, popping cysts, making shifts/shades all keep me fairly entertained.
What gets old is "medpack... medpack... medpack. Need a medpack over here... Commander, I need ammo."
I feel like with marines I'm babysitting, whereas with aliens I'm actually commanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
drifter's can be quite fun AND useful in the endgame, but if you make them early - mid game, you are failing, same goes for shifts / shades if you are spamming(note word spamming, if you plant well positioned shift and eggs with it it can turn the tide of the game) them, you are just wasting resources because your team needs upgrades and fade / onos eggs ASAP, it's the players that wins the games, not turrets or shades etc. And whips are the most useless building in the game, the way they are now they should cost 5res each, but 15 is just waste.
spreading infestation can be fun, but in earlygame it's the same rule as drifters, if you spam them early game you're just wasting valuable resources and delaying upgrades.
in conclusion, i have most fun playing khammander when in endgame when all upgrades are done and some onos eggs planted, that's when you can actually interact to the battles, in early - mid game being khammander is just waiting resources, nothing else.
Also, spending resources to completely infest an area is an awesome way to make marines waste valuable time clearing it up for structures. It's very strategic, but it does work quite well.
Also, I'm finding that most if not all of the game, there's something to do - except certain maps like Veil when there's some clear downtime in the beginning of the game (which I usually use to go gorge and place my hydras somewhere around the hive anyway).
clearly you've never used bone walls, hallucinations or shift teleportation
What do you use teleportation for?
I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame. but that's it.
do you use it to teleport whips into the marine base? takes too long and whips off infestation can not attack.
I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That, to save T.Res. But most importantly, save upgrades. Send Shell, Spur and Veil to another Hive when the Hive they're currently at is under attack.
I once used it to advance with a crag heal station a little bit forward in the endgame. but that's it.
do you use it to teleport whips into the marine base? takes too long and whips off infestation can not attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I keep an Echo Shift near my upgrades usually (Shells, Veils, Spurs) and echo them if there's even the remotest chance they'll be attacked. I'd rather spend a little res to move them back and forth than have to replace them. Plus it pisses marines off.
Bone wall, Enzyme, and Hallucination are all pretty fun
I still think Hallucination is way too expensive both to upgrade and use, but it's in the game
Just stay away from whips/crags and be ready to jump out to help the team <i>(I typically gorge inside a hive with clogs and hydras while comming)</i>
<!--quoteo(post=2019294:date=Nov 11 2012, 01:30 AM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 11 2012, 01:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it can't. Mist has no effect on build times, only maturity. Yes, I've tested it.
Seems like if you can block of stuff with a wall of bones why it isnt used more instead of the annoying clogs, which are frustrating to place, easily killed and can only place 10 of.
I actually enjoy alien commanding a lot more than marine. It's a lot less stressful. And once I've got everybody everything they want I can just start building bombard whips and an echo shift.
Unfortunately the game is usually over by the time I get to use them though :( But it's always funny when it happens.
No, Bone Wall is not permanent. It's something like 3-5 seconds, with a 5-10 second cooldown (too lazy to look these numbers up, but it's fairly short and you can't spam it). Marines can shoot it to make it disappear even faster.
Enzyme is an ability that drifters have which speeds up alien attacks. Not so useful in combat (given that you typically want to time attacks, not spam), but amazing against structures. If you ever find a red aura on your body, you're being enzymed.
Hallucination is the upgrade ability on shades. It makes fake units and structures, but the units can't fake attack or walk on walls or anything that real players would do, and the fake buildings are bugged and spawn as unbuilt structures that never build (supposed to be fixed next build, IIRC), so they're easy to spot. They are all also instantly killed by a scan and have very low health (fake onos dies in maybe half a clip). And they cost res, typically far more than a scan does, at least if you plan on using more than one or two (I think fake onos is 5, fake hive is 15(!!)), and have a lowish lifetime (1-2 minutes), so there's rarely any reason to ever use them. You could try a fake base rush with them (and one or two actual units to actually attack and get attention), but against a competent comm that <i>might</i> work once, if at all (they can just scan before beaconing). Granted, once might be all you need...
The marine com is almost like a guardian angel type role in a fight. He protects fighters with health and nanoshields, and supports their movements with scans.
The alien com is more of a poisonous presence in a fight. During an invasion, he can erect bone walls to hinder the marines. Nutrient mist can be used to speed-build structures right under the marines' feet when they try to sneak around in your territory. (a tactic i'm a fan of.)
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more 'instant trap' type commands like the bone wall. The aliens should be strange and unpredictable to the marines, and I think giving the com the power to screw the marines in strange ways would fit that.
At the same time, it shouldn't be too powerful. The com should never be too focused on participating in fights. The ultimate role of the com is to control the map. Controlling the map, buying upgrades, and getting your men the res they need to do well is the com's primary role. Participating in fights is secondary.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
thats exactly how i feel about the alien comm
I beg to differ, having a whip can hold off an attack long enough for skulks to get in and defend or at the very least you'll get a few kills. Whips dont just serve a practical role, just knowing there are 1 or 2 whips will prevent a single marine from running in and cutting a cyst chain to a harvester. The moral impact is huge and if the marine decides to attack the whip it'll be with his primary weapon and deplete him of ammo ready for your players to regain map control.
If you have a shade then whips become an even more powerful defencive structure. Not to mention their passive ability to reflect grenades can allow a defencive position to hold out 25% longer against a seige ignoring the fact those marines will have to retreat from self damage due to reflected grenades.
Every time i play alien com i always use whips.