NS2 A Promise Fulfilled, Or Simply Put, Best $40 I ever spent
Idleray
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-10-04 Member: 161464Members, Reinforced - Shadow
This is not a deliberate counterpoint to Maverickk's post. I've been meaning to make a post commending the devs for awhile, now just seemed the right time given the amount of negativity going around.
I played NS1 religiously for years starting from 2004, and I pre-ordered NS2 the very day I heard of its existence.
However, the wait was long and tortuous. The AusNS2 site came up for a short time, and I as a part of the Australian NS community would frequent it for updates. However the game just was coming along way too slowly. I remember when the NS1 servers briefly flared back to life following the announcement of NS2, after it more or less died with the arrival of WOW. Much fun was had and it rekindled everyones excitement about the game.
We kept waiting and waiting, and eventually I gave up. I'd check back on the UWE site every few months or so but along with my friends we didn't actually think the game would ever come out. However I was happy with the $40 pre-order - an extremely modest price given the fun I had with the original game.
Imagine my pleasant surprise when one day (back in August this year) when I received a link to the Exosuit trailer in my inbox. I WAS PUMPED and couldn't wait to download the beta and give it a whirl. Barring some performance and loading issues at first, NS2 turned out to be everything I'd hoped for.
Is this game better than NS1? I'm prepared to go against the prevailing NS1 vet wisdom and say it's shaping up to be and it's already getting there. I'm glad to see some of the fundamental problems addressed as well as the cool new additions, including:
<ol type='1'><li>Removing RFK. This was imbalanced and encouraged turtling on rines while giving good aliens earlier than expected lifeform timings.</li><li>Removing electrified buildings, which made skulks almost completely unviable late game and made games less dynamic by shutting down harrassment strategies</li><li>Implementing an Alien commander, which I think is superior to the NS1 system as key responsibilities are freed from Gorges and more focused into the commander role, without the possibility of inexperienced or trolling gorges stuffing the game up for the rest of the team</li><li>The extremely cool and useful Alien vision </li><li>The removal of the HMG, which I think was the right move given the amount of firepower it put into a jetpacker's hands</li><li>Exos, which are awesome to play and feel completely different to HAs. Yes they're abit more limited compared to HAs, what with not being able to be build and weld and all, but my personal opinion is that limitations and constraints add depth to the game.</li><li>Onos devour, which was a 0-sum game in terms of fun: as the Onos you had fun at the expense of the marine player.</li></ol>
Now I'm definately not happy with everything. These are things I reckon could use some work on:
<ol type='1'><li>Flamethrowers. I currently don't think they're as effective as they should be, and also their role is not distinct and pronounced enough. The weapon idea is definately cool, but it just doesn't feel powerful. Their damage bonus to cysts and clogs is ultimately unnecessary due to the ease of destroying those things with easier-to-access equipment. The damage they do to energy is just not sufficient to warrant their cost, and is not intuitive (it's basically a hidden property).
</li><li>Fades. I don't think vortex adds much to the gameplay aside from being a novelty. However, I didn't think acid rockets added much either in NS1, and they certainly wouldn't fit into NS2 since bile bombs do what they did and much better currently. I also think Fade gameplay is less newb-friendly and less fun generally compared to NS1 - the lack of focus, the lack of metabolize, the nerfed hp & armor just makes you too reliant on gorges or nearby crag nests to be effective. There's too much down time currently if you want to play a Fade and survive. If you try to play Fade as you did in NS1, you simply die a lot more often. Fades can no longer engage groups of marines like they did in NS1.
</li><li> Shades. The lack of SOF and Focus is sorely missed. Without them Shades simply don't feel viable in NS2, although the moving of silence kinda compensates for this. Shades also have the least viable abilities (ink and hallucination) compared to crags and shfits. I second the recommendations of many other posters to buff them against Obs.
</li><li> Alien spawn system. I have to say that I do not like how the current system forces you to go Shifts early on or risk having massive down time for dead players in crucial timing windows where marines can just take over the map. I also understand there's not many workable alternatives, but this is definitely an area that could use improvement.
</li><li> Lack of surrender-vote or officially implemented trigger for end game when about 4 people quit from one team. I understand that this also leads to people more readily quitting games, but the prospect of having a winning marine team dragging on the game just so they can all get exos, or an Alien team building whips in every corner of the map is just not worth it. It extends game unnecessarily for no fun at all for the losing team.
I have some more gripes, but I have faith in the team in developing in the long run. The future for this game is just beginning and it looks bright with the injection of new blood from retail launch. The community has always been its greatest asset and one of the big reasons I keep coming back.
Put into perspective, I believe the UWE team has pulled off something that's miraculous given the amount of manpower they had. Having the privilege to play NS2 was a very pleasant surprise for me this year and I look forward to many more frantic games with you folks in the coming days :D</li></ol>
I played NS1 religiously for years starting from 2004, and I pre-ordered NS2 the very day I heard of its existence.
However, the wait was long and tortuous. The AusNS2 site came up for a short time, and I as a part of the Australian NS community would frequent it for updates. However the game just was coming along way too slowly. I remember when the NS1 servers briefly flared back to life following the announcement of NS2, after it more or less died with the arrival of WOW. Much fun was had and it rekindled everyones excitement about the game.
We kept waiting and waiting, and eventually I gave up. I'd check back on the UWE site every few months or so but along with my friends we didn't actually think the game would ever come out. However I was happy with the $40 pre-order - an extremely modest price given the fun I had with the original game.
Imagine my pleasant surprise when one day (back in August this year) when I received a link to the Exosuit trailer in my inbox. I WAS PUMPED and couldn't wait to download the beta and give it a whirl. Barring some performance and loading issues at first, NS2 turned out to be everything I'd hoped for.
Is this game better than NS1? I'm prepared to go against the prevailing NS1 vet wisdom and say it's shaping up to be and it's already getting there. I'm glad to see some of the fundamental problems addressed as well as the cool new additions, including:
<ol type='1'><li>Removing RFK. This was imbalanced and encouraged turtling on rines while giving good aliens earlier than expected lifeform timings.</li><li>Removing electrified buildings, which made skulks almost completely unviable late game and made games less dynamic by shutting down harrassment strategies</li><li>Implementing an Alien commander, which I think is superior to the NS1 system as key responsibilities are freed from Gorges and more focused into the commander role, without the possibility of inexperienced or trolling gorges stuffing the game up for the rest of the team</li><li>The extremely cool and useful Alien vision </li><li>The removal of the HMG, which I think was the right move given the amount of firepower it put into a jetpacker's hands</li><li>Exos, which are awesome to play and feel completely different to HAs. Yes they're abit more limited compared to HAs, what with not being able to be build and weld and all, but my personal opinion is that limitations and constraints add depth to the game.</li><li>Onos devour, which was a 0-sum game in terms of fun: as the Onos you had fun at the expense of the marine player.</li></ol>
Now I'm definately not happy with everything. These are things I reckon could use some work on:
<ol type='1'><li>Flamethrowers. I currently don't think they're as effective as they should be, and also their role is not distinct and pronounced enough. The weapon idea is definately cool, but it just doesn't feel powerful. Their damage bonus to cysts and clogs is ultimately unnecessary due to the ease of destroying those things with easier-to-access equipment. The damage they do to energy is just not sufficient to warrant their cost, and is not intuitive (it's basically a hidden property).
</li><li>Fades. I don't think vortex adds much to the gameplay aside from being a novelty. However, I didn't think acid rockets added much either in NS1, and they certainly wouldn't fit into NS2 since bile bombs do what they did and much better currently. I also think Fade gameplay is less newb-friendly and less fun generally compared to NS1 - the lack of focus, the lack of metabolize, the nerfed hp & armor just makes you too reliant on gorges or nearby crag nests to be effective. There's too much down time currently if you want to play a Fade and survive. If you try to play Fade as you did in NS1, you simply die a lot more often. Fades can no longer engage groups of marines like they did in NS1.
</li><li> Shades. The lack of SOF and Focus is sorely missed. Without them Shades simply don't feel viable in NS2, although the moving of silence kinda compensates for this. Shades also have the least viable abilities (ink and hallucination) compared to crags and shfits. I second the recommendations of many other posters to buff them against Obs.
</li><li> Alien spawn system. I have to say that I do not like how the current system forces you to go Shifts early on or risk having massive down time for dead players in crucial timing windows where marines can just take over the map. I also understand there's not many workable alternatives, but this is definitely an area that could use improvement.
</li><li> Lack of surrender-vote or officially implemented trigger for end game when about 4 people quit from one team. I understand that this also leads to people more readily quitting games, but the prospect of having a winning marine team dragging on the game just so they can all get exos, or an Alien team building whips in every corner of the map is just not worth it. It extends game unnecessarily for no fun at all for the losing team.
I have some more gripes, but I have faith in the team in developing in the long run. The future for this game is just beginning and it looks bright with the injection of new blood from retail launch. The community has always been its greatest asset and one of the big reasons I keep coming back.
Put into perspective, I believe the UWE team has pulled off something that's miraculous given the amount of manpower they had. Having the privilege to play NS2 was a very pleasant surprise for me this year and I look forward to many more frantic games with you folks in the coming days :D</li></ol>
Comments
the reason i'd like it for NS2, besides the fact that the marine skin looks badass, is because i'm inspired and uplifted by UWE. not the tales of woe behind the scenes etc or the 'community game' phenomenon, but the dedicated efforts and drive of charlie and hugh and the other guys to reach out to the community. i love watching the twitch vods/Q&A's and knowing that it's not a 'forced' thing, but something they actually want to do :)
it really shows respect to the community, and i think valve have the right idea too with their non-stop free tf2 updates, game content and non-game content like the comics etc. it's a breath of fresh air in times where most devs are hidden behind a greedy coorperation and frankly don't give a flying ###### as long as they make money.
i agree with the points you make as well. although i do understand the people who make the "alien commander sucks, i want old gorge building" gripe, because in tf2 terms, the gorge's role like a 'medic without uber'. there's not a lot you can do to turn the tide of a match - which sucks because you operate in an almost exclusive and limited 'healing' role where you have to rely on teammates to do everything for you. but we've already heard about the exciting stuff in motion to spruce up the gorge, so i think it will work out.
Same
As to you're list of things you like. I completely agree on every front.
<!--quoteo(post=2019545:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flamethrowers. I currently don't think they're as effective as they should be, and also their role is not distinct and pronounced enough. The weapon idea is definately cool, but it just doesn't feel powerful. Their damage bonus to cysts and clogs is ultimately unnecessary due to the ease of destroying those things with easier-to-access equipment. The damage they do to energy is just not sufficient to warrant their cost, and is not intuitive (it's basically a hidden property).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think flamethrowers are in a pretty good spot. They're the ultimate weapon for supporting the team.
Great for dealing with lerks(spores/unbra), Killing aliens attacking an Exo, clearing infestation, and generally fun to use.
The only gripe I have with it is not being able to tell how many canisters of fuel I have left, only the amount of fuel in the current tank. As far as I know?...
<!--quoteo(post=2019545:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades. I don't think vortex adds much to the gameplay aside from being a novelty. However, I didn't think acid rockets added much either in NS1, and they certainly wouldn't fit into NS2 since bile bombs do what they did and much better currently. I also think Fade gameplay is less newb-friendly and less fun generally compared to NS1 - the lack of focus, the lack of metabolize, the nerfed hp & armor just makes you too reliant on gorges or nearby crag nests to be effective. There's too much down time currently if you want to play a Fade and survive. If you try to play Fade as you did in NS1, you simply die a lot more often. Fades can no longer engage groups of marines like they did in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree. However I do like vortex. I just don't think it's in a good spot right now. I would say increase the duration slightly, reduce the energy cost by half, and have it so you can't vortex again until the first one runs out. Vortexing an observatory or the comm while skulks kill the other essential buildings in a base might actually be effective then.
<!--quoteo(post=2019545:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*] Shades. The lack of SOF and Focus is sorely missed. Without them Shades simply don't feel viable in NS2, although the moving of silence kinda compensates for this. Shades also have the least viable abilities (ink and hallucination) compared to crags and shfits. I second the recommendations of many other posters to buff them against Obs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I do miss scent of fear. I don't mind it being gone. Was to similar to observatory in my opinion. However with scent of fear gone I really feel parasite should have a much longer duration and not give marines that yellow shader that shows they're parasited. Meaning the only way they would notice is if they noticed there hp drop.
Focus however I think really needs to come back. It's the only thing that let's skulks/fades scale late game against W3 A3 marines.
<!--quoteo(post=2019545:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM:name=Idleray)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Idleray @ Nov 11 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have some more gripes, but I have faith in the team in developing in the long run. The future for this game is just beginning and it looks bright with the injection of new blood from retail launch. The community has always been its greatest asset and one of the big reasons I keep coming back.
Put into perspective, I believe the UWE team has pulled off something that's miraculous given the amount of manpower they had. Having the privilege to play NS2 was a very pleasant surprise for me this year and I look forward to many more frantic games with you folks in the coming days :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed :)
EDIT: it's nice to see a positive and constructive post around hear
I don't usually play computer games anymore, but when I do, I play NS2.
NS2 itself? Not that fond of it, actually. It's in the same rough state as ns1.01-1.02; in 1 or 2 years we'll see if anything great can come of it.
I feel like people only critique something if they like it, and I understand that UWE's community is very passionate and we all love NS2. That said, everything is so doom-and-gloom; the negativity has been so overwhelming lately. The criticisms, no matter how valid, are soaking and dripping in disdain toward NS2, the devs, and other community posters. I get it because I was 15 once too, and back then I did in NS1 what I'm complaining about now. I made the negative threads and thought my opinion was always right. A quick glance through one of the 'balance fade' threads usually starts out positive then ends in name calling.
NS2 is finding success everything, but if you look in general discussion you'd think the game was about to die. I hope the community gets to a point where someone can constructively list their criticisms and an intelligent conversation can follow.
NS2 is an excellent game, and like practically every game ever made, it has room for improvement. It would be good if we could all assist the dev's in trying to improve their game, but if I was them, I would have stopped paying attention to these forums days ago because we have so constructive feedback to offer.
Obviously the balance is not perfect, but getting even close to perfect balance in an asymmetric game with any amount of depth is, as far as I'm concerned, impossible. That being said, the near 50/50 split of wins currently goes to show what an INCREDIBLE job UWE has already done with NS2.
I played the Beta and put a good 150 hours in before release so I can see for the most part most people are happy with the game in the sense that we really don't have people complain in game. And I know what in game complaining sounds like, I played when the skulk didn't have a bite cone.
Thanks UWE for the great game and keep up the good work!
As some one else said, I pre-ordered as soon as I heard it was possible more as a thank you for all the time I spent playing NS1. I downloaded the "alpha" release as soon as I could but it was more of a toy at that point. I completely forgot about it until a few months ago when I heard it was going retail.
Is it as polished as it could be? no. Am I happy with my $40? I was happy 2 years ago or whenever I first spent it just to be able to give something back for NS1.
Really my biggest complaint is that my system is too slow to run it at full resolution, but thats my problem, not the game's.