So... where are the commanders at?

Jynks · November 2012

Hi there,

I'm a brand new player and I am not a FPS fan.. in fact I have always disliked them as I found the gameplay to be so pointless.. "run and shoot, die and spawn".. How boooooring.... Still i have many friends that like fps so I have always kept an eye out for a game I might like.. Anyway, I saw the 4 pack on steam and youtube'd for some gameplay footage and found <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelection2HD" target="_blank">NaturalSelection2HD @ YouTube</a>

Well I was really impressed, this is what I have always wanted in a FPS.. some direction.. real teamwork, goals... actual game[play I can understand as enjoyable. ( It is worth noting I am a huge relic RTS fan.. CoH, DoW 4TW! ). So I grabbed a 4 pack and logged in to see this new (as far as I know) approach to FPS, as in giving the matches some kind of point and direction.

So I have now played 5 games, and I have nvr EVER heard a single command form the "commander" .. seen a way point of any kind.. or heard ANY voice chat of any sort. Also only minimal text chat... so what is the game.. exactly like all the other fps.. run about randomly, directionless and simply "run and shoot, die and spawn".

So my questions are...

Where are all the commanders at?
Is there a "type" of game I should be looking for?
Where can I find some people to play with that... you know.. PLAY it... play it like I think it should be.. like I see in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/NaturalSelection2HD" target="_blank">NaturalSelection2HD's @ YouTube</a> videos.

Note.. i am Australian / Sydney timezone.

--Jynks

TychoCelchuuu · November 2012

You've only played 5 games. That's not much of a sample size. Most games that I play have commanders that talk. Just keep playing. As people get better, the only people commanding will be those with mics who know what they are doing.

Jynks · November 2012

so there isn't different types of gamemods?

Kouji_San · November 2012

<div align='center'>The commanders are inside these structures
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/b/b7/CommandStation.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/images/thumb/5/57/Hive_rockdown2.png/591px-Hive_rockdown2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Some commanders are very vocal and also very good with their orders and support. The commanders that are less vocal are usually newbie commanders that are learning the game.

Also you yourself can become a commander (1 per team) and play the RTS side with real players out on the field
</div>

Jynks · November 2012

well considering that as a new player I have zero idea of what the hell is going on I think being a commander at this time is not really an option.. what I wondering is if I am joining the incorrect game mode or something.. ... so for the 3rd time..

Are there different game modes.. and if so.. witch one should I use?

Kouji_San · November 2012

Hmm, I would've guessed you would have deducted that part ;) But no, there are no game modes in NS2. Basically there is one commander on both teams and the others play the FPS part in combination with them. So the RTS bit comes from getting upgrades and expanding into other areas for more resources, basic RTS stuff, influenced by both the players on the field and the commanders in the chair/hive.

So if you don't play your part in assisting the team, you're bound to get less upgrades and research and also damage your teams economy to some extent. That is what an FPS+RTS hybrid it all about :)

douchebagatron · November 2012

check out explore mode under training, it's the best way to figure out what is necessary to know from a comm.

Keep in mind that this does differ from standard RTS in that you really need to have a sense of leadership. when commanding actual players, you have a huge impact from just talking to players and keeping them updated on what is going on, where they need help, and also keeping spirits up. A lot of games will go downhill early due to people giving up when there's still a chance.

Ansom · November 2012

There don't seem to be different gamemodes yet. As for not receiving orders and the like, it depends on your team. Marines are much more task-oriented than the Aliens. The commander is much more in-tune with his team, capable of dropping them ammo, health packs, and issuing them build orders. Aliens don't <i>have to</i> build. Their buildings, deployed manually by the commander and then constructed automatically, build themselves up over time. You can play as Gorge and speed up the process by right-clicking new structures, though. You're much more independent on Aliens to roam as you please. Roaming alone on Marines is usually a death wish.

Jynks · November 2012

Well I guess if there are no game modes when I get off work I will just try again and see if i can find some server that has fun players...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 4 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>there are no game modes in NS2.</div>
Thanks!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 4 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>So if you don't play your part in assisting the team, you're bound to get less upgrades and research and also damage your teams economy to some extent. That is what an FPS+RTS hybrid it all about :)</div>

Yeah but I have yet to see a single act of leadership or even basic communication of any sort.. so every game I played last night after I bought it had no upgrades, no direction and was basically just a free for all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Nov 4 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>check out explore mode under training, it's the best way to figure out what is necessary to know from a comm.</div>
Thanks I'll do that... I couldn't see any tutorials or anything like that when I 1st loaded it up.. but by teh time i downloaded it was late.. I'll look again when I get off work.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Nov 4 2012, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2010568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Keep in mind that this does differ from standard RTS in that you really need to have a sense of leadership. when commanding actual players, you have a huge impact from just talking to players and keeping them updated on what is going on, where they need help, and also keeping spirits up. A lot of games will go downhill early due to people giving up when there's still a chance.</div>

This is exactly what attracts me to this game. Though I do not really want to play as a commander.. at least not until i have some idea of what the troops experience while playing. I know people will probably roll there eyes but I have extensive experience as a raid leader in mmos, before I gave up on them when i had my 1st kid. So i am pretty good at game state awareness and communication.

I was expecting when I logged the commander to be .. well a commander.. but instead every game I have played has had zero communication I may as well be playing with bots.

Kouji_San · November 2012

Hehe, well the fact is you have arrived at the time of the "new player boom" The commanders on the public servers are mostly newbies as well and as I said are not that good yet, they tend to be more quiet or not even communicating at all. Both of which is bound to fail against any team that does communicate.

Also the RTS bit is not only the responsibility of the commander, the players on the field also have to relay information about enemy movement. The commanders can support them

marine team: meds, ammo, scans for cloaked aliens, beacon to teleport back to main base for defense or to set up a rush etc...
alien team: supporting with drifters, and setting up forward outposts (healing/energy)

Visible orders (waypoints) aren't really needed if your team is good enough, because good players that know the game, know the map and will use their microphone to relay valuable information to the team and the commander

PersianImm0rtal · November 2012

Try joining clan servers...

99.9% of the people playing the game right now are new. And maybe a little shy?

BearTornado · November 2012

As you play you'll become familiar with upgrades and tools you can use on the field, and eventually understand how commanders tend to play maps.

Once you do understand this, you don't necessarily have to command, but you can try to convince newer, quiet commanders to be vocal. Tell them what upgrades you would like, and ask them where they intend to expand.

And don't be hostile about it. I haven't done commanding yet, and I can certainly imagine how tense it may be trying to command for your first time. Try to work with them, and hopefully they'll try to work with you.

And if you don't like how its going, just leave. I don't leave because we are losing, but rather because I'm not getting the full experience due to an unresponsive commander (even worse, one who just up and leaves when things don't get a proper start). New or not they should at least understand that they need to communicate with their team, that's something I grasped almost immediately when looking for info and videos on NS2.

d.n.M. · November 2012

There are lots of Servers where almost all players are new and learning what it's all about. Somebody enters the comcenter and tries to work it out.

Everything is unorganized and there is neither lots of talk nor teamplay. Thats perfectly normal for the current state. Many players are not used to talking to all these strangers, they are only used to talking to some guys they know on TS2.

Eventually you will find a server with a commander who is more experienced. You will notice that he has much better situation awareness, he will let you know what he wants you to do and also tell you whats up. There is communication about who is doing what and where support is needed.

People will just have to loosen up a little. I played my first 2 games as commander, and I was not that vocal either. I had my problems with keeping up with the game, reacting to requests and so on.

Give it some time, it's well worth it.

JediPhreaK · November 2012

I myself have been learning the role of commander, at first I was more focused on learning the ropes and understanding the placement of structures etc than I was constantly talking. As I am getting better with the role I try to do more to direct my teammates to various locations. One of the big ones is to vocalize goals and respond vocally to requests when able.

As a new commander you should be telling your team mates what you are currently working on to upgrade etc. It is also best if you try to assign them into squads of 2-3 depending on the game size. If someone has a friend playing with them in the game try to keep them in a squad.

A commander not talking is either a sign of a bad or inexperienced player in the command chair.

Commanders should also make use of the Commander Specific on the fly Key binds. For example select 3 Players then hit Ctrl + 1 and it will bind that group to the 1 key with which you can then give them specific way point orders etc. Players tend to for the most part rely on the commander to direct the overall action, good players with however when a commander has not assigned them to be with other members; they team themselves up with other players and lead a squad. I would say the most effective players are those who have squad leaders directing them with commanders directing the efforts of the whole group.

Give the game some time, get to learn the ins and outs of it and by the time you get experienced you'll likely have met a few decent commanders.

Squirreli_ · November 2012

I've been making a conscious effort to spend time as a commander and also as an alien field-commander / carry player, but as I seem to usually be the only experienced player on the servers, the other team is often left without anyone to really guide them. Some of the other things that limit my comming:

- Chair stealing. Happens almost every time I step out of the chair/hive even when I'm saying on voice that I'm still comming and am just healing a hive or placing mines. Needless to say that I often lose interest and quit or start soloing when this happens. Chair stealers do not get ejected :(
- Long rounds. I keep joining games that are already over but still keep dragging on. I will not start comming mid-game. Rounds with good comms are often quicker and are over "too soon".
- When field comming and trying to guide players and comms, I often am ignored completely or even told to stop advising. Also, new players have their hands full with basic stuff and trying to organize advanced stuff just fails most of the time.

MuckyMcFly · November 2012

The key to NS2 is communication.

Get a microphone and dont be afraid to use it.

Commanders especially benifit from a mic as its easy to call out orders (in a calm no swearing way).

Players in the field can also help call out stratigic information about enemy activity, the best games Ive had are when nearly all players are on voice comms and able to rally the team.

This game is very much a team effort.

tarquinbb · November 2012

i use voice comms a lot of the time... but usually give up if i don't get anyone else using mic on my team - because it feels like i'm a crazy person talking to myself.

although sometimes i'm talking on mumble with friends and therefore it can be too much to use in-game comms as well.

when i play as commander i will always use voice comms unless i'm tired and suspect that my team is full of clueless noobs, where i'd literally be wasting my breath (when i'm not tired i will happily teach them how to play).

the bottom line is that if you don't communicate as a commander then you're only doing half of your job. you see the entire battlefield and the position of all of your team, you can't play with the map up 24/7 so using the commander's vision is a huge advantage for a team.

i must add that in my experience, the pub server voice comms in this game are far more active than other games. i've played about 2000 hours of tf2, mostly on pub servers, and on average you probably hear about 2 relevant words an hour constituting a "pyro spy!" or something (european servers).

4bdul · November 2012

I don't see as many people use voicecomms as there should be - but I guess that's why more community-based servers (not many due to lack of server optimization) are needed with regular players on the same server (favourite feature needs to be much better/easier) - which I know for a fact will encourage more people to use voicecomm.

douchebagatron · November 2012

A lot of the people have mics, but don't use them because no one else is using them. I use my mic a lot in games and find that there are always other people that start using theirs when I use mine. No one wants to be the only person with a mic talking on the server, so no one speaks up. Most people think that there's not much communication at first glance, but it's because there are so many new people that they don't realize that this game needs it, and it's the norm among players who've been around, so they keep quiet instead.

B1lly · November 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Nov 6 2012, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>A lot of the people have mics, but don't use them because no one else is using them. I use my mic a lot in games and find that there are always other people that start using theirs when I use mine. No one wants to be the only person with a mic talking on the server, so no one speaks up. Most people think that there's not much communication at first glance, but it's because there are so many new people that they don't realize that this game needs it, and it's the norm among players who've been around, so they keep quiet instead.</div>

just one thing on "move orders".

I stopped using them as marine commander. Why? because it uses the fastest path but doesn't count on phase gates.
As phase gates as usually the first thing you will research, and if not you should, i had to issue move command ON A phase gate, or people were moving all around the map following arrows, instead as instant- jumping to the battlefield.

As a commander, i ended up using the alert (!!) button, and saying where to go by voice.

as a commander today you become stressed in a second, if you don't have experienced marine (not many, just the ones that will lead the squads) on the field.

as a marine, you should check wherever it's needed your help, when you hear "structure under assault"

kk20 · November 2012

Add me as a "friend" and if im on join my game. I'm a talky commander. What many people forget in games is that you need to press the "need order" button sometimes. As a commander you get a little pop up in the corner which we can click on. That zooms to you so we can drop a res node next to you, build power or drop health on you (if we are flush with res).

Sometimes unless the team specifically asks for orders i'll just let you get on with things if I see that the majority are moving in a pack, harassing the enemy etc (i.e. have knowledge of what they are doing). Feel free to use the mic to say "can we have armoury here" and press your "order" button etc. But commanders can see the field and if you are doing ok i'll let the MACs build stuff and leave you guys to the killing (with some direction)

Being a comm can be quite hectic when you are balancing 7 people asking for things whilst upgrading, moving stubborn MACs etc. That being said a comm should also tell the team an idea - which CC is next, which parts are getting chewed - keeping you informed etc. I too use ALERT later on in matches (move in the beginning if newcommers dont know where the power points are etc) rather than "move". Then again as a marine when told to move I always look at the map too.

I must say though ive found NS2 to be far more vocal than other games. And for the better too. (And no, I dont mean spamming numa-numa for those seige NS1 veterans)

nicholmikey · November 2012

Keep playing, almost all games I play the commander has a mic.

The game just came out, it will still be some time before some standard strategies become widespread.

Whitewhale · November 2012

if ur aussie then join games off myself (whitewhale on steam) or neogenetix, mf and a few others who have comp gaming experience

we mostly new to ns2, cept mf who is uber-vet....but we talk alot and get the teamwork going

u just need to be around experienced players who arent hesistant to talk

kalv · November 2012

Like 80% of the servers I join has a commander with a mic. You can command your self if nobody wants to. It's a different experience and more rewarding if you win.

Volcano · November 2012

join the monash and ausns2 servers to play with players who actually know what to do

include · November 2012

The game is new so there are a lot of players just like you...brand new and hesitant to jump into the command chair. From there, you'd naturally be quiet and try to figure things out. Over time, people will become more experienced and comfortable with NS2 commanding and you'll start seeing more of what you are expecting.

RaZDaZ · November 2012

I command more than half my alien games and I love it although I can't do every game as commander since a lot of fun is gained from the FPS play. At first, I had no clue what to do and didn't know how the hive and alien upgrades worked.

Now, I win the vast majority of my public games as alien IF the team listens to me. I'm very vocal, constantly giving orders and locations of marines, asking players to evolve into a specific lifeform and calling out upgrades associated with them. Information is key to alien commander. You can pickup on marine locations far easier than the grunts on field. While marine commander is more focused on ordering and positioning his team, alien is more about informing the team where exactly they need to go, where the marines are and how many marines are there. If an alien skulk knows that there is a specific count of marines, then he isn't likely to charge around the corner and take a quick death.

Commanding a group of good players is a tonne of fun due to the synergy you create between grunt and commander. It makes getting tasks and orders done very satisfying.

So... where are the commanders at?

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