<div class="IPBDescription">everyone can cheat...</div><img src="http://i.imgur.com/NUPYJ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> why you allow people to change the stuff? i can change all materials in the game to black and players to white...
<!--quoteo(post=2023183:date=Nov 14 2012, 07:50 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Nov 14 2012, 07:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's probably playing on a server that does not enforce consistency.
Most server do enforce it, fortunately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do enforce it but I believe the default checks do not include textures and must be added by the server admin manually.
Is it possible that he's playing with one of the many skin-altering mods available in the steam workshop, on one of the servers that has these mods enabled? You know, how the game was intended to work.
That's not to say that there might not be a problem with consistency checking, but that screenshot hardly proves anything. And modded does not equal cheating, only modding outside of the allowed parameters would.
Consistency checks currently do not encompass textures, as those files are not also available on the servers. I had heard that was part of 'Phase 2' for consistency checks, where they will presumeably include hashes for all the files not included in the server build.
One of the best parts of NS1 was being able to change all the models once and a while, I recall even an AVP mod that was pretty nice, or this: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81693" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=81693</a>
The fun benefit outweighs the abuse with neon textures. Competitive and super serious servers will enforce the consistency anyway, just like NS1.
It'd be great if NSArmslab came back. It'd be a shame if they had nothing to do IF they came back.
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.
To clarify he does NOT play wth those skins.... he was just testing how flawed the consistency check really is. No skulks were thrown into paint buckets that day! edit: also people were messaged that day!
In ns1 I had my rine skin was spec ops and I changed up aliens all the time for a while I had skulk as starship troopers and lerk had a chicken model...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
How come no one has noticed the <!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->hot pink rifle<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> yet! :P
Some of the mods I play with are indeed using modified DDS files, however mine are purely aesthetic (NS1 alien skins and black armored/plated weapons and gloves). I've said it before, that those kinds of mods will probably be disabled once phase two of consistency checking goes in.
For competitive matches with prices involved or showmatches even, they can already be included in the check anyway. I just hope there will be a white listing option soon, for some of the aesthetic mods, or mods in general. I just hate to play with purple aliens and want my nostalgia aliens for pub play!!! And my crosshairs and my black amoured/plated weapons and gloves :(
Well the crosshairs DDS file should be exclude in any case from the consistency checking and the weapons and gloves mods could be excluded as well (community managed?). It's just the other dds files that are a bit... Prone to stuff like this, hot pink rifles for instance :P
<!--quoteo(post=2023317:date=Nov 14 2012, 03:09 PM:name=XeiZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (XeiZ @ Nov 14 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really do hope crosshairs will get excluded, i dont even want to think about having to use the official one... <-<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2023259:date=Nov 14 2012, 05:14 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 14 2012, 05:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OH NO, THE SKULKS ARE GREEN
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then the pro players in Quake must be really bad!
<!--quoteo(post=2023259:date=Nov 14 2012, 10:14 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 14 2012, 10:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OH NO, THE SKULKS ARE GREEN
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah sorry but if people can change textures and models, they will for an edge. Change all textures to a solid grey, change enemies to a bright red - blam you will always notice anything from any distance.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=2023354:date=Nov 14 2012, 05:42 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Nov 14 2012, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023354"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah sorry but if people can change textures and models, they will for an edge. Change all textures to a solid grey, change enemies to a bright red - blam you will always notice anything from any distance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hate people :(
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=2023358:date=Nov 14 2012, 05:45 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 14 2012, 05:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate people :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I say this frequently. The world would be much better without them. Without people there would be no traffic to get stuck in, no queues in coffee shops, etc. Life would be great!
<!--quoteo(post=2023358:date=Nov 14 2012, 01:45 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Nov 14 2012, 01:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023358"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate people :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess its "This is why we can't have nice things". I still stick with it.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2023399:date=Nov 14 2012, 06:18 PM:name=Dark_Dragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark_Dragon @ Nov 14 2012, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess its "This is why we can't have nice things". I still stick with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed :(
Ah well, we still need a global Workshop white listing system and a server side one as well, for valid mods be it gameplay or aesthetics... that is what we can take home from thsithread
^both are known and the devs are on it. Workshop in general needs a better sorting system instead of this big bucket of stuff it is now!
This only really makes a difference at low level pub play... at the higher levels it's going to be completely negligible. A lot of good players in quake/etc used skins similar to this because they started with them early and it helped them become a better player faster, so they were used to them (although it wasn't a good idea since you probably couldn't use it most LANs). If you can only compete against players too inept to hear or see where you are without the skins then you probably have a lot to work on anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=2023477:date=Nov 15 2012, 06:31 AM:name=Canucck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canucck @ Nov 15 2012, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This only really makes a difference at low level pub play... at the higher levels it's going to be completely negligible. A lot of good players in quake/etc used skins similar to this because they started with them early and it helped them become a better player faster, so they were used to them (although it wasn't a good idea since you probably couldn't use it most LANs). If you can only compete against players too inept to hear or see where you are without the skins then you probably have a lot to work on anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about stuff like hiding weapon models? aka, holo rifle by aageon, or arkanti's hack mod on workshop right now. Changing skins and models has the potential to be very hacky, like putting great big horizontal spikes on models so you can see them around corners.
<!--quoteo(post=2023477:date=Nov 14 2012, 08:31 PM:name=Canucck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canucck @ Nov 14 2012, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This only really makes a difference at low level pub play... at the higher levels it's going to be completely negligible. A lot of good players in quake/etc used skins similar to this because they started with them early and it helped them become a better player faster, so they were used to them (although it wasn't a good idea since you probably couldn't use it most LANs). If you can only compete against players too inept to hear or see where you are without the skins then you probably have a lot to work on anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that's so then on the flip side, high level players doesn't need and shouldn't have any more edge other than they already have by just playing well against players too casual not to want to turn their game into "click the colors" to prevail. These sort of low level cheats are poison, nothing good will come from them taking root in the community.
<!--quoteo(post=2023283:date=Nov 14 2012, 06:35 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 14 2012, 06:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Generally, there are at least four things we need to prevent cheating at the most basic level:
1. Improved consistency check that includes textures and models. 2. First person spectating. 3. Demo/replay recording. 4. Something to prevent players from using macros to max out their pistol fire rate; for example changing the pistol fire rate cap to simply stop the pistol from firing at all when you hit it (so if you click too fast, or use a macro to spam fire commands, it won't fire at all).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully all 4 will be implemented in the near future.
<!--quoteo(post=2023261:date=Nov 14 2012, 09:17 AM:name=Jow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jow @ Nov 14 2012, 09:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023261"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thing about texture mods being allowed is you can make a wallhack very, very easily by just replacing them with a blank texture I think.
At least that's possible in Source, might be different in Spark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't believe that you can do this since Spark doesn't have recognize transparency, my guess would be that it would distort a lot of things. And having no textures on the walls would really do more harm than good anyway since you couldn't tell what you could shoot.
Comments
Most server do enforce it, fortunately.
Most server do enforce it, fortunately.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do enforce it but I believe the default checks do not include textures and must be added by the server admin manually.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->{
"check": [ "game_setup.xml", "*.lua", "*.fx", "*.screenfx", "*.surface_shader", "*.fxh", "*.render_setup", "*.shader_template" ]
}<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
That's not to say that there might not be a problem with consistency checking, but that screenshot hardly proves anything. And modded does not equal cheating, only modding outside of the allowed parameters would.
The fun benefit outweighs the abuse with neon textures. Competitive and super serious servers will enforce the consistency anyway, just like NS1.
It'd be great if NSArmslab came back. It'd be a shame if they had nothing to do IF they came back.
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.
At least that's possible in Source, might be different in Spark.
edit: also people were messaged that day!
Raising awareness about a guy raising awareness?
/StayClassyInternet
Argathors thread is about the same , we were together on the stream and talking about it in chat...
1. Improved consistency check that includes textures and models.
2. First person spectating.
3. Demo/replay recording.
Edit: Fourth point was fail, removed.
Some of the mods I play with are indeed using modified DDS files, however mine are purely aesthetic (NS1 alien skins and black armored/plated weapons and gloves). I've said it before, that those kinds of mods will probably be disabled once phase two of consistency checking goes in.
For competitive matches with prices involved or showmatches even, they can already be included in the check anyway. I just hope there will be a white listing option soon, for some of the aesthetic mods, or mods in general. I just hate to play with purple aliens and want my nostalgia aliens for pub play!!! And my crosshairs and my black amoured/plated weapons and gloves :(
Well the crosshairs DDS file should be exclude in any case from the consistency checking and the weapons and gloves mods could be excluded as well (community managed?). It's just the other dds files that are a bit... Prone to stuff like this, hot pink rifles for instance :P
me too
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then the pro players in Quake must be really bad!
Seriously, quit screaming and calm down. UWE is aware of things like this, and they're working on them; if you need to turn skulks green to hit them, you're probably a bad enough player to be easily taken down anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah sorry but if people can change textures and models, they will for an edge. Change all textures to a solid grey, change enemies to a bright red - blam you will always notice anything from any distance.
I hate people :(
I say this frequently. The world would be much better without them. Without people there would be no traffic to get stuck in, no queues in coffee shops, etc. Life would be great!
I guess its "This is why we can't have nice things". I still stick with it.
Indeed :(
Ah well, we still need a global Workshop white listing system and a server side one as well, for valid mods be it gameplay or aesthetics... that is what we can take home from thsithread
^both are known and the devs are on it. Workshop in general needs a better sorting system instead of this big bucket of stuff it is now!
What about stuff like hiding weapon models? aka, holo rifle by aageon, or arkanti's hack mod on workshop right now. Changing skins and models has the potential to be very hacky, like putting great big horizontal spikes on models so you can see them around corners.
If that's so then on the flip side, high level players doesn't need and shouldn't have any more edge other than they already have by just playing well against players too casual not to want to turn their game into "click the colors" to prevail. These sort of low level cheats are poison, nothing good will come from them taking root in the community.
1. Improved consistency check that includes textures and models.
2. First person spectating.
3. Demo/replay recording.
4. Something to prevent players from using macros to max out their pistol fire rate; for example changing the pistol fire rate cap to simply stop the pistol from firing at all when you hit it (so if you click too fast, or use a macro to spam fire commands, it won't fire at all).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully all 4 will be implemented in the near future.
it should be, it's an .fx file
At least that's possible in Source, might be different in Spark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't believe that you can do this since Spark doesn't have recognize transparency, my guess would be that it would distort a lot of things. And having no textures on the walls would really do more harm than good anyway since you couldn't tell what you could shoot.