I understand you are a busy fella charlie, but i beg you to consider that almost ALL changes will have an effect on game balance, wether they are balance changes or not. I would be far happier with delayed releases for new builds, if it meant that you had the time to make the tweaks required to keep the game balanced.
I just feel as tho the game is out of beta now, and that every build should be balanced before it is released.
Wanted to add that the game seems to work significantly better on my laptop. Not sure if its me being silly, or if your laptop driver patch was magical. At any rate thank you!
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2024690:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:52 AM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Nov 15 2012, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As you are almost a complete noob to these forums (been here less that 2 weeks, almost 300 posts, wtf) i will be polite.
This thread is the place for "whineing" as you call it, or feedback as the rest of us call it.
Yes, they will fix it, perhaps hastily, but they wont if we dont tell them what we think.
Perhaps you should wait until you have more experience on these forums, and in game, before you voice your opinion so vociferously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny because I thought your post was the only one that actually sounded like whining more than objective feedback. :-D
Have to agree with a few things I seen here. UWE doesn’t exactly know how to balance builds, they didn’t in beta and now after the game has been released they still don’t. Not to say they’re not trying or working hard but it seems as if almost every new build they try to balance the game but make massive changes to one side or the other.
<!--quoteo(post=2024719:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:09 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Nov 15 2012, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been busy with my other responsibilities this week and didn't have time to make any balance changes. That won't be the situation for long though.
Another thing - VAC is now fully enabled. If anyone finds a link to download a speed hack or other cheat, please send it to tech-support@unknownworlds.com and it will be added to VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope UWE can get their office manager soon, so we can have Flayra chained to his desk doing balance work!
When are we going to see Flayra playing in ENSL gathers? :)
<!--quoteo(post=2024772:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:00 AM:name=Know pain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Know pain @ Nov 15 2012, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024772"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have to agree with a few things I seen here. UWE doesn’t exactly know how to balance builds, they didn’t in beta and now after the game has been released they still don’t. Not to say they’re not trying or working hard but it seems as if almost every new build they try to balance the game but make massive changes to one side or the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed. And they have so good community and competetive players with over 5 years of ns experience. Why do they keep neglecting their suggestions and bashing their head against the wall. This was ok to try out in beta but now it's released version.
I was wondering why the game felt odd as I played today and now I know why. Why am I hearing and seeing the regen effect on an Onos barely out of combat? Odd how shade tech suddenly became more prevalent. No mention of any balance changes to game mechanics is not what I would expect from patch notes in a game that markets itself for its competitive gameplay. Not a big fan of "ninja" changes either and these are considered as such given the way the patch was released.
I'd rather be surprised that a bug was fixed as that is a pleasant surprise rather than wondering what the hell is going on when things don't function the way they should anymore. May want to consider adding complete patch notes to the reason why a patch should be delayed.
Oh and maybe someone can finally go ahead and change that ridiculous PRE-ORDER NOW! image still plastered on the main NS2 website. Highly unprofessional to not even take a minute or two to change an image to reflect the current status of your game, just like releasing patch notes with no mention of balance changes.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=2024782:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:10 AM:name=kalakuja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kalakuja @ Nov 15 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Indeed. And they have so good community and competetive players with over 5 years of ns experience. Why do they keep neglecting their suggestions and bashing their head against the wall. This was ok to try out in beta but now it's released version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You make it sound like theres some sort of universal consensus that the competitive community agrees on.. When last time I checked it has always been as varying as these forums..
Everyone thinks their idea is the best one.. I just wish there was a way to poll/ vote on each one to actually have a popular decision to avoid the "its finally fixed" "no its op" fiasco.
Personally the major changes I think need addressing are: tres onos and the 1.5 second requirement til regen kicks in is a bit much from 5. after that vortex and other smaller things can be looked at... But hey thats me
i was just playing as lerk with regen, and i'm 99% sure that regen is slower than 228... is that meant to be?
lerk was by far my most played alien lifeform and i took regen every time, after finding somewhere to 'regen' up i would literally be fully healed in 5 seconds... but just now i had to wait about 10-15 seconds at least to get fully healed up by regen.
not complaining, just find it a little weird that ppl call it a buff when it seems to be a nerf. that is unless i was somehow bugged and regen wasn't working correctly on me (i didn't die once i spawned as lerk, so i guess it's possible).
I don't fully understand the changes, so some one should correct me if I am wrong but...
regen now works at reduced capacity in combat, and full capacity about 2 seconds out of combat.
So while you are fighting you get hp back... This is a huge buff. It means if you can prolong the fighting, you will gain a significant amount of health.
<!--quoteo(post=2024855:date=Nov 15 2012, 03:23 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Nov 15 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024855"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't fully understand the changes, so some one should correct me if I am wrong but...
regen now works at reduced capacity in combat, and full capacity about 2 seconds out of combat.
So while you are fighting you get hp back... This is a huge buff. It means if you can prolong the fighting, you will gain a significant amount of health.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The real buff is that it kicks into full effect much faster than before, resulting in a very fast full heal if you can just duck out of combat for a few moments. It encourages a heavily hit-and-run oriented playstyle which is a lot of fun even if the numbers need tweaking.
<!--quoteo(post=2024864:date=Nov 15 2012, 11:32 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 15 2012, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The real buff is that it kicks into full effect much faster than before, resulting in a very fast full heal if you can just duck out of combat for a few moments. It encourages a heavily hit-and-run oriented playstyle which is a lot of fun even if the numbers need tweaking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I have been really enjoying it. It is a lot more fun then carapace!
Regen may be too strong at the moment but it feels like NS1 again (i.e. fun) when lerks/fades can rush in and out of combat with only a short break to top up on hp. The pressure aliens can put on a marine base or push is much greater because of this and games are actually ending decisively one way or the other, which is making things much more fun for both teams even if it's unbalanced (I haven't played enough to make a good judgement on that point). Onos regen feels a bit silly though I have vague memories from NS1 of the same thing and I've seen onos die from getting overconfident or just being outplayed.
Now if adren can have some of its fun factor returned then I'll happily admit to have a legitimate choice to make between alien upgrades for most lifeforms :p
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Regen makes killing machines because you don't really have to "step out of combat" when it takes 1.5 seconds.. You just toy with your marine til he has to reload, as always.. But yea feels great having such powerful upgrades.
I suggest a 3 second requirement, to reward the more evasive, tactical combatant
Trust in the game developers decisions because its their job and source of income to live not ours. They have the most to lose and make decisions based on what they feel is best for their game.
If they listened to every player or even every "Veteran Player". They still wouldn't be able to change the game to stop the complaints.
Our Job as the community: Have fun Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.) Have fun Report bugs we find. Have fun
<!--quoteo(post=2024911:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:16 PM:name=hiloboys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hiloboys @ Nov 15 2012, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The community has no clue what it wants.
Trust in the game developers decisions because its their job and source of income to live not ours. They have the most to lose and make decisions based on what they feel is best for their game.
If they listened to every player or even every "Veteran Player". They still wouldn't be able to change the game to stop the complaints.
Our Job as the community: Have fun Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.) Have fun Report bugs we find. Have fun
-2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, no? If the community never gave their opinions, then the developers would make their game without any valid criticisms outside of their element. Is it so impossible that someone out there comes up with a better idea than 7 people will have? Sure, it's their job. Sure, at an average, they are smarter and more studied than the average gamer. And yes, they should definitely take what we say with a grain...or a barrel of salt. But that doesn't mean they should be so stubborn as to never listen. And they do listen.
<!--quoteo(post=2024891:date=Nov 15 2012, 03:59 PM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Nov 15 2012, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, 1.5 is too short if it allows "out of combat" heal rate to happen when the player is still decidedly in combat<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the whole thing that makes it good. Having to run far away from the fight to start healing made it boring and weak because what aliens really need from their crag upgrade is to be more effective in combat. The devs have always said that upgrades are the alien equivalent of marine weapon/armor tech. I would rather see the regen rate get nerfed a bit than the combat delay be long again, but I don't want it nerfed at all right now. Onos eggs need to go first IMO.
I just played 12 games straight. Aliens won all 12 within 15mins. Onos arrived on average at 10 mins, in a couple of games at just past 5min.
The alien tactic for all these games now is Skulk rush for 7 mins with crag hive and regen, until res ready for onos drop and purchase at around 7 mins or earlier. The constant skulk rushing main base is just ridiculous. As marine I see the aliens actually regenerating while being shot at, and in the middle of combat.
The only way marines win is if aliens don't know what they are doing -- ie half or more are rookies.
I've enjoyed this game immensely since release but the last day since 229 has been horrendous.
I have no idea why devs decided to give a major buff to regen while not fixing the 6min (or less) onos. If you were trying to fix network issues then just do that please. If you are going to provide a regen buff then fix the onos issue too. Regening onos at 8min in the middle of combat without gorge is just ridiculous.
it's important to emphasize that it's way more fun to play, as well as being more fun to play against. this is in pretty sharp contrast to ambushing skulk play which mostly relied on the failure of the marine, which was less fun overall for both parties.
I hope they mess around with the combat timer with values between 2-4 to find a nice balance.
<!--quoteo(post=2024758:date=Nov 15 2012, 09:49 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 15 2012, 09:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funny because I thought your post was the only one that actually sounded like whining more than objective feedback. :-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Played a few games today, and I am loving the new crags, or at least, half of them. The healing to structures it amazing, its almost perfect. I would tone it down every so slightly (maybe reduced to 3 or 4% instead of 5), but it really is a great improvement. Why is it so good? Because the ol "walk in and kill the hive" strategy, the dominant marine strategy in NS2 up till now, just became a whole lot less viable. In a game that claimed to be a real time strategy hybrid, simply shooting at a massive blob in the middle of the room really was too effective. Now marines actually have to choose their targets correctly, and usually need to bring something that is actually good at destroying structures, if the aliens invest the resources into fortifications.
One part I don't like is the healing to players. It really is just too much at the moment. I've seen skulks weaving in between crags with entire clips of grenades going off next to them, and they don't die. I think the healing to players should maybe be reduced to 50 or 40% that of the healing to structures.
<!--quoteo(post=2024911:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:16 PM:name=hiloboys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hiloboys @ Nov 15 2012, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The community has no clue what it wants.
[...]
Our Job as the community: Have fun Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.) Have fun Report bugs we find. Have fun
-2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err no. What you have listed there is called fanboyism. It should have no place in any sphere of human activity.
<!--quoteo(post=2024888:date=Nov 15 2012, 12:53 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 15 2012, 12:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024888"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regen makes killing machines because you don't really have to "step out of combat" when it takes 1.5 seconds.. You just toy with your marine til he has to reload, as always.. But yea feels great having such powerful upgrades.
I suggest a 3 second requirement, to reward the more evasive, tactical combatant<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it was 4 seconds before the massive uproar erupted, and 90% of the competitive clan people I've talked to in-game maintained that it was crap. Now it's 1.5 and it's OP apparently. Maybe somewhere in the middle... ?
I'd rather play a few more days and look at global stats than knee-jerk myself into drawing early conclusions.
<!--quoteo(post=2024980:date=Nov 15 2012, 04:07 PM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 15 2012, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, it was 4 seconds before the massive uproar erupted, and 90% of the competitive clan people I've talked to in-game maintained that it was crap. Now it's 1.5 and it's OP apparently. Maybe somewhere in the middle... ?
I'd rather play a few more days and look at global stats than knee-jerk myself into drawing early conclusions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I just feel as tho the game is out of beta now, and that every build should be balanced before it is released.
This thread is the place for "whineing" as you call it, or feedback as the rest of us call it.
Yes, they will fix it, perhaps hastily, but they wont if we dont tell them what we think.
Perhaps you should wait until you have more experience on these forums, and in game, before you voice your opinion so vociferously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny because I thought your post was the only one that actually sounded like whining more than objective feedback. :-D
So what are the win stats after a couple of days? I think last night Marines won 40 - 50 % where I was playing.
Another thing - VAC is now fully enabled. If anyone finds a link to download a speed hack or other cheat, please send it to tech-support@unknownworlds.com and it will be added to VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope UWE can get their office manager soon, so we can have Flayra chained to his desk doing balance work!
When are we going to see Flayra playing in ENSL gathers? :)
Indeed. And they have so good community and competetive players with over 5 years of ns experience. Why do they keep neglecting their suggestions and bashing their head against the wall. This was ok to try out in beta but now it's released version.
I'd rather be surprised that a bug was fixed as that is a pleasant surprise rather than wondering what the hell is going on when things don't function the way they should anymore. May want to consider adding complete patch notes to the reason why a patch should be delayed.
Oh and maybe someone can finally go ahead and change that ridiculous PRE-ORDER NOW! image still plastered on the main NS2 website. Highly unprofessional to not even take a minute or two to change an image to reflect the current status of your game, just like releasing patch notes with no mention of balance changes.
You make it sound like theres some sort of universal consensus that the competitive community agrees on.. When last time I checked it has always been as varying as these forums..
Everyone thinks their idea is the best one.. I just wish there was a way to poll/ vote on each one to actually have a popular decision to avoid the "its finally fixed" "no its op" fiasco.
Personally the major changes I think need addressing are: tres onos and the 1.5 second requirement til regen kicks in is a bit much from 5. after that vortex and other smaller things can be looked at... But hey thats me
I think the game takes way longer to load a new map now than it used to in 228. Anyone else seen this?
lerk was by far my most played alien lifeform and i took regen every time, after finding somewhere to 'regen' up i would literally be fully healed in 5 seconds... but just now i had to wait about 10-15 seconds at least to get fully healed up by regen.
not complaining, just find it a little weird that ppl call it a buff when it seems to be a nerf. that is unless i was somehow bugged and regen wasn't working correctly on me (i didn't die once i spawned as lerk, so i guess it's possible).
regen now works at reduced capacity in combat, and full capacity about 2 seconds out of combat.
So while you are fighting you get hp back... This is a huge buff. It means if you can prolong the fighting, you will gain a significant amount of health.
regen now works at reduced capacity in combat, and full capacity about 2 seconds out of combat.
So while you are fighting you get hp back... This is a huge buff. It means if you can prolong the fighting, you will gain a significant amount of health.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The real buff is that it kicks into full effect much faster than before, resulting in a very fast full heal if you can just duck out of combat for a few moments. It encourages a heavily hit-and-run oriented playstyle which is a lot of fun even if the numbers need tweaking.
Yeah I have been really enjoying it. It is a lot more fun then carapace!
Now if adren can have some of its fun factor returned then I'll happily admit to have a legitimate choice to make between alien upgrades for most lifeforms :p
I suggest a 3 second requirement, to reward the more evasive, tactical combatant
I still see a few of these in the console during gameplay. This is not fixed.
Trust in the game developers decisions because its their job and source of income to live not ours. They have the most to lose and make decisions based on what they feel is best for their game.
If they listened to every player or even every "Veteran Player". They still wouldn't be able to change the game to stop the complaints.
Our Job as the community:
Have fun
Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.)
Have fun
Report bugs we find.
Have fun
-2 cents
Trust in the game developers decisions because its their job and source of income to live not ours. They have the most to lose and make decisions based on what they feel is best for their game.
If they listened to every player or even every "Veteran Player". They still wouldn't be able to change the game to stop the complaints.
Our Job as the community:
Have fun
Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.)
Have fun
Report bugs we find.
Have fun
-2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, no? If the community never gave their opinions, then the developers would make their game without any valid criticisms outside of their element. Is it so impossible that someone out there comes up with a better idea than 7 people will have? Sure, it's their job. Sure, at an average, they are smarter and more studied than the average gamer. And yes, they should definitely take what we say with a grain...or a barrel of salt. But that doesn't mean they should be so stubborn as to never listen. And they do listen.
That's the whole thing that makes it good. Having to run far away from the fight to start healing made it boring and weak because what aliens really need from their crag upgrade is to be more effective in combat. The devs have always said that upgrades are the alien equivalent of marine weapon/armor tech. I would rather see the regen rate get nerfed a bit than the combat delay be long again, but I don't want it nerfed at all right now. Onos eggs need to go first IMO.
The alien tactic for all these games now is Skulk rush for 7 mins with crag hive and regen, until res ready for onos drop and purchase at around 7 mins or earlier. The constant skulk rushing main base is just ridiculous. As marine I see the aliens actually regenerating while being shot at, and in the middle of combat.
The only way marines win is if aliens don't know what they are doing -- ie half or more are rookies.
I've enjoyed this game immensely since release but the last day since 229 has been horrendous.
I have no idea why devs decided to give a major buff to regen while not fixing the 6min (or less) onos. If you were trying to fix network issues then just do that please. If you are going to provide a regen buff then fix the onos issue too. Regening onos at 8min in the middle of combat without gorge is just ridiculous.
I hope they mess around with the combat timer with values between 2-4 to find a nice balance.
Cool story bro.
One part I don't like is the healing to players. It really is just too much at the moment. I've seen skulks weaving in between crags with entire clips of grenades going off next to them, and they don't die. I think the healing to players should maybe be reduced to 50 or 40% that of the healing to structures.
[...]
Our Job as the community:
Have fun
Learn to Adapt to Gameplay Changes (Yes this is a strategy game.)
Have fun
Report bugs we find.
Have fun
-2 cents<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err no. What you have listed there is called fanboyism. It should have no place in any sphere of human activity.
I suggest a 3 second requirement, to reward the more evasive, tactical combatant<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it was 4 seconds before the massive uproar erupted, and 90% of the competitive clan people I've talked to in-game maintained that it was crap. Now it's 1.5 and it's OP apparently. Maybe somewhere in the middle... ?
I'd rather play a few more days and look at global stats than knee-jerk myself into drawing early conclusions.
I'd rather play a few more days and look at global stats than knee-jerk myself into drawing early conclusions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is no place for rational thoughts...gtfo