Balance Issue ! Attn plz.

|R18|Zerg|R18|Zerg Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167745Members
Happened twice in 2 games, we as alien lost our last harvester, but turned the game. Unfortunately stuck on 9 res we lost 2 epic comebacks just due to marine turtle and us unable to build a single RT despite owning the whole map bar 1 tech pt.

This is a srs balance issue, aliens cant sell!
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Comments

  • Bad MojoBad Mojo Join Date: 2009-05-01 Member: 67317Members
    If your team owned the entire map and somehow managed to lose every single Harvester, and the Khamm was so oblivious to the point that he never bothered to place any new ones at any point, that is a loss that is quite deserved, imo.
  • tarshishtarshish Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167725Members
    This is called recto-caudal conjunction syndrome and can indeed make maintaining your balance difficult. Expert suggest pulling it out.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    yeah the resource model is a downgrade from ns1
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    edited November 2012
    It's not a balance issue. If you fail to protect your harversters, and don't keep 10 res as a fail-safe, you deserve to lose. I'm guessing the only way you managed to "turn it around" is to neglect base defense in the first place.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It's intentional and called res-lock. Keep an eye on your harvesters and your res.
    There is nothing wrong in losing when you fail.
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    If you are selling because you don't have one harvester, you are probably going to lose. You had a bad commander/team, or you are a bad commander...
  • |R18|Zerg|R18|Zerg Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167745Members
    We killed their exo rush as skulks, and cleared them off the map, then pinned them in crossroads, then.... could do nothing.. res-lock.

    Doesn't make sense, our comm jumped out and RQ after realising what he'd done, seems unfair to punsih us for turning the game.
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2012
    It is the commanders fault, not the game. He won't again be res-locking himself in too much of a hurry, but you learn the hard way.

    This game is asymmetrical, and the meta-game deeply effects the FPS aspect and visa-versa.

    I can see how you think this, and there has been argument for and against it. But there are ways the marines can be screwed over (power nodes) that differ completely from the alien team and are just as frustrating.

    Res-locking actually happens rarely on public servers, in competitive sometimes the tactic is to go extractor hunting to get the res-lock. It is a valid part of the game.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2025650:date=Nov 16 2012, 05:05 AM:name=%26%23124%3BR18%26%23124%3BZerg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (%26%23124%3BR18%26%23124%3BZerg @ Nov 16 2012, 05:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We killed their exo rush as skulks, and cleared them off the map, then pinned them in crossroads, then.... could do nothing.. res-lock.

    Doesn't make sense, our comm jumped out and RQ after realising what he'd done, seems unfair to punsih us for turning the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    zerg is a flaw in the gameplay. UWE <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->shouldn't<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> have res locking. not much else you can say.

    <b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Language please! -Kouji San<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    edited November 2012
    The more I read these balance posts the more I realize that everyone thinks that they should win every game regardless.

    OP, you do realize that somebody has to loose? Loosing all of our resources in a resource driven game is intended to be a bad thing.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->zerg is a flaw in the gameplay. UWE shouldn't have res locking. not much else you can say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is not Starcraft, this is game known as "Natural Selection" while there may be some familial elements, it IS NOT the same game. The sooner everyone understands this the sooner they will begin to enjoy NS for what it is.
  • JKooLJKooL Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11492Members, Constellation
    I don't think aliens being able to recycle structures for some res is a bad idea. I understand where the op is coming from. No one is saying they deserve to win all the time, but we should have a fighting chance. The best part about NS is that the winner isn't 100% determined because X happens.
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2025684:date=Nov 16 2012, 08:42 AM:name=JKooL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JKooL @ Nov 16 2012, 08:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think aliens being able to recycle structures for some res is a bad idea. I understand where the op is coming from. No one is saying they deserve to win all the time, but we should have a fighting chance. The best part about NS is that the winner isn't 100% determined because X happens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    The fighting chance was the entire round where they apparently owned the whole map, until the commander decided to spend all of their remaining res without paying attention to that handy little res node counter sitting right in front of his/her face. This is not a balance issue, this is a bad decision issue which by all rights should cost you the game.
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
    Sounds like the marines outmanuvered you while you went to crossroads. Good job to them.

    That said, being able to recycle whpis and other mid-tier alien structures would be nice.
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It is an alternative way to win the game, and the more ways to win the game the better.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025681:date=Nov 16 2012, 05:37 AM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Nov 16 2012, 05:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The more I read these balance posts the more I realize that everyone thinks that they should win every game regardless.

    OP, you do realize that somebody has to loose? Loosing all of our resources in a resource driven game is intended to be a bad thing.



    This is not Starcraft, this is game known as "Natural Selection" while there may be some familial elements, it IS NOT the same game. The sooner everyone understands this the sooner they will begin to enjoy NS for what it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Its bad gameplay man. Ns2 is supposed to be a strategy game where teams go at each other with a build order for early, mid and late game. Its pretty dumb when marines can just say ###### strategy! You go for a early hive we go for res lock. Res for killing needs to come back. I'm not saying teams shouldn't be punished for spending and losing there towers. But they shouldn't be out of the game. Im pretty sure this is why res for killing was in ns1 in the first place.
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2025701:date=Nov 16 2012, 08:57 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its bad gameplay man. Ns2 is supposed to be a strategy game where teams go at each other with a build order for early, mid and late game. Its pretty dumb when marines can just say ###### strategy! You go for a early hive we go for res lock. Res for killing needs to come back. I'm not saying teams shouldn't be punished for spending and losing there towers. But they shouldn't be out of the game. Im pretty sure this is why res for killing was in ns1 in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    It is indeed a strategy game. Resource locking occurs when your commander and team are not coordinating or are taking a risky strategy. Having resources is a core part of this game, loosing them and having no reserve should count as a loss.
  • extolloextollo Ping Blip Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72457Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025707:date=Nov 16 2012, 09:06 AM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Nov 16 2012, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025707"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is indeed a strategy game. Resource locking occurs when your commander and team are not coordinating or are taking a risky strategy. Having resources is a core part of this game, loosing them and having no reserve should count as a loss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    perhaps some obvious khamm ui tweaks to warn of the risk would help. when reslock happens inadvertently - kinda sucks. when reslock happens after known risk by khamm - perfectly fine.
  • tk-421tk-421 Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58315Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2012
    So the thread is basically, "we made a *huge* strategic mistake and lost the match - so therefore the game is broken in some way"? Because that's how I'm reading it here.

    Sounds like the Khamm messed up and your team paid for it with a loss...

    <!--quoteo(post=2025688:date=Nov 16 2012, 04:45 AM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Nov 16 2012, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fighting chance was the entire round where they apparently owned the whole map, until the commander decided to spend all of their remaining res without paying attention to that handy little res node counter sitting right in front of his/her face. This is not a balance issue, this is a bad decision issue which by all rights should cost you the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Absolutely. /thread.
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    An easy fix would be to have each tech point give res at half the rate of a normal res node

    If you khamm doesn't go gorge to spend his/her 20 res on hydras / clogs then you probably also deserve to lose the node in your base
  • includeinclude aka RpTheHotrod Dallas, TX Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12027Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2025701:date=Nov 16 2012, 07:57 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its bad gameplay man. Ns2 is supposed to be a strategy game where teams go at each other with a build order for early, mid and late game. Its pretty dumb when marines can just say ###### strategy! You go for a early hive we go for res lock. Res for killing needs to come back. I'm not saying teams shouldn't be punished for spending and losing there towers. But they shouldn't be out of the game. Im pretty sure this is why res for killing was in ns1 in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Marines can't say that. Getting res locked is 100% at the fault of the commander...NOT the enemy team. Your team allowed the enemy team to take out all of your resource towers and your commander blew all of his remaining res.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025731:date=Nov 16 2012, 06:58 AM:name=include)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (include @ Nov 16 2012, 06:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025731"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines can't say that. Getting res locked is 100% at the fault of the commander...NOT the enemy team. Your team allowed the enemy team to take out all of your resource towers and your commander blew all of his remaining res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    More like your team got raped and then egg locked thus leading to all your towers being killed. I don't consider it strategic at all. Plus if you want to get anything done as alien you need to spend your money fast. Idk man just watch this game where archaea lost becaues they got res locked. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp</a>

    arc out played us in every way but they got res locked and lost. its just not fun imo.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Lost two games? BALANCE ISSUE! Better post another topic on the forums.
  • xxswatelitexxxxswatelitexx Join Date: 2012-11-16 Member: 171754Members
    It could be the marines cut the supply chain for the cysts. The Alien Comm never noticed where the supply chain was cut, and was unable to replace the node.
    You can tell when a supply cyst chain is cut when the cyst stops glowing red. and becomes a dull color. You can no longer build along that chain untill you relink the chain to a hive
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2025785:date=Nov 16 2012, 11:00 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More like your team got raped and then egg locked thus leading to all your towers being killed. I don't consider it strategic at all. Plus if you want to get anything done as alien you need to spend your money fast. Idk man just watch this game where archaea lost becaues they got res locked. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp</a>

    arc out played us in every way but they got res locked and lost. its just not fun imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If the aliens are both res locked and egg locked then it means that they were utterly defeated in every way. I don't see why this is a game design flaw. If there are balance issues making it too difficult for aliens to defend their RTs/hive, then that's the problem, not res locking itself.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025814:date=Nov 16 2012, 08:27 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 16 2012, 08:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the aliens are both res locked and egg locked then it means that they were utterly defeated in every way. I don't see why this is a game design flaw. If there are balance issues making it too difficult for aliens to defend their RTs/hive, then that's the problem, not res locking itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So your saying archaea gave the GG because they were egg locked? No They were in a winning position with 3 hives but got res locked because of it. They tried to base rush and it failed. They were defeated by the res system not pokemasters. Trust me I was playing in this game.
  • JuomariJuomari Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167141Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025701:date=Nov 16 2012, 05:57 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 05:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its bad gameplay man. Ns2 is supposed to be a strategy game where teams go at each other with a build order for early, mid and late game. Its pretty dumb when marines can just say ###### strategy! You go for a early hive we go for res lock. Res for killing needs to come back. I'm not saying teams shouldn't be punished for spending and losing there towers. But they shouldn't be out of the game. Im pretty sure this is why res for killing was in ns1 in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    i'm prettysure anyone deserves to lose a game if you spend all res on X thing with only 1rt and it gets killed.

    in starcraft, there is no sell option either, if enemies kill your dropout point for minerals and you can't afford a new one, you're screwed, and it's your own fault like what OP is saying, it's the same thing, there is no need to balance anything here, if you have only 1rt, then mayby keep 10res in spare ?
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2025824:date=Nov 16 2012, 11:34 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025824"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So your saying archaea gave the GG because they were egg locked? No They were in a winning position with 3 hives but got res locked because of it. They tried to base rush and it failed. They were defeated by the res system not pokemasters. Trust me I was playing in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You were the one who brought up egg locking. I think you need to rewatch that replay - see 13:20. The base rush was a desperation attack because they were down to 1 hive and 1 RT. Then as the last RT went down they blew 80 res all at once to drop two hives, res locking themselves. It was a huge critical mistake.
  • nSidianSidia Join Date: 2012-08-15 Member: 155651Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2025837:date=Nov 16 2012, 08:43 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 16 2012, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You were the one who brought up egg locking. I think you need to rewatch that replay - see 13:20. The base rush was a desperation attack because they were down to 1 hive and 1 RT. Then as the last RT went down they blew 80 res all at once to drop two hives, res locking themselves. It was a huge critical mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And it was the only mistake they made all game long. They should have won but lost. pokemasters won by default not by skill or strategy. This is why its bad. You can say it was a mistake but it still doesn't take away that poke gets a free win. Its pretty dumb that an alien team can even do this to themselves.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2025847:date=Nov 16 2012, 11:50 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And it was the only mistake they made all game long. They should have won but lost. pokemasters won by default not by skill or strategy. This is why its bad. You can say it was a mistake but it still doesn't take away that poke gets a free win. Its pretty dumb that an alien team can even do this to themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A team is reduced to 1 Hive 0 RTs and nothing but Skulks and you say they made no mistakes? Really? They literally didn't have a single thing to their names other than a bank of res to drop some blind undefended hives.
  • includeinclude aka RpTheHotrod Dallas, TX Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12027Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2025785:date=Nov 16 2012, 10:00 AM:name=nSidia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nSidia @ Nov 16 2012, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2025785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->More like your team got raped and then egg locked thus leading to all your towers being killed. I don't consider it strategic at all. Plus if you want to get anything done as alien you need to spend your money fast. Idk man just watch this game where archaea lost becaues they got res locked. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or0aqSIdJog&feature=plcp</a>

    arc out played us in every way but they got res locked and lost. its just not fun imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The same could be said for Chess. You could be outplaying your opponent but make a terrible mistake that'll cost you the game. Part of being good isn't just about destroying your enemy but also being mindful of your actions.
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