Flayra's balance patch in workshop
Benson
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Comments
Lerk is looking to be quite the contender now, Onos and skulk have been nerfed.
Fade still needs some buffs though.
This is created by Unknown Worlds to test upcoming balance changes, before we release them to the wider world. It is primarily for competitive players, but of course anyone is free to try it.
Survey feedback: <a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6MBDTR2" target="_blank">http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6MBDTR2</a>
Changelog (updated 11/16 4:09 PST)
- Reverted back to old Hive healing values (228)
- Doubled ARC rate of fire (halved damage)
- Fixed ARC targeting issues
- Welder research time increased from 10 to 15
- Exo armor changed from to 300/390/480/570 to 400/460/520/580
- Welder rate reduced from 125/sec to 90/sec
- Reduced shadow step cost from 15 to 10
- Increased blink momentum to be close to build 220
- Increase start blink energy cost from 8 to 12
- Increased Lerk health from 125 to 175.
- Increase Lerk carapace from 75 to 100.
- Skulk bite width reduced somewhat.
- Shift Hatch now creates 2 eggs, but costs 5 resources and has a 5 second cool down (was 1 tres per egg, no cooldown).
- Increased trait structure (Shell, Spur, Veil) mature health by ~20%. Also increased their base health to be closer to their previous mature health.
- Reduced spore research time from 90 to 60.
- Hive build time increased from 150 seconds to 180 seconds.
- Reduced Onos gore range by .2 meters
Thanks!
Link to info
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=108447514&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a>
OMG OMG LERK BUFFS PLEASE STAY
<!--quoteo(post=2026523:date=Nov 17 2012, 03:03 PM:name=Simini)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Simini @ Nov 17 2012, 03:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Changelog (updated 11/16 4:09 PST)
- Exo armor changed from to 300/390/480/570 to 400/460/520/580.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last thing exo needs is more overall armour, it's already got too much. At the very least, there should be parity between pursuing armour levels and rushing exo - this change shifts the balance to rushing exo's. What you're going to see is stronger 2 cc vs 2 hive stale early/mid-game i.e turtle till end tech gameplay. <i>Exo is grossly overpowered but this is another topic that warrants longer explanation.</i>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Increased Lerk health from 125 to 175.
- Increase Lerk carapace from 75 to 100.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Charlie, if you want to do a heavy flyer class, add a new lifeform altogether. Please keep the lerk as fast and fragile. You're going to end up with a class in the middle that's useless at everything.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Shift Hatch now creates 2 eggs, but costs 5 resources and has a 5 second cool down (was 1 tres per egg, no cooldown).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please no more cooldowns and arbitrary limitations. Increase the tres cost per egg if you feel its necessary - convoluting the rules doesn't add much.
<u><b>Probably not good</b></u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Reduced spore research time from 90 to 60.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't see this being in the healthy direction for pubs unless something is done to spores regarding vision block vs damage
<u><b>Rest of the changes are very good!</b></u>
<b>Probably not good</b>
<b>Rest of the changes are very good</b>!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe the Lerk was just a bit too fragile, like for example ending up as collateral from grenade spam and being shot down within a fraction of a second, before you ever have the chance to get set up and snipe someone.
With these changes more people will consider the lerk, instead of that 1 guy in a team of 12 who decides to go lerk.
@Heavymetal
Good point, but now i believe it is time to buff the fade, and make it worth the 50 res.
With these changes more people will consider the lerk, instead of that 1 guy in a team of 12 who decides to go lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If charlie wants to add a heavy flyer class, i have no problem with that. However, the lerk is not a tanking class and we've seen throughout <b>3 years of beta</b> that buffing its hp and counter-balancing with reduced movement (with that ridiculously high health and armour, trust me this will happen) does not result in good gameplay.
If he was simply trying to counteract the effect of shotguns, the solution will never be hp buffs like this because of the ripple effects it has on rifle marines. The solution to balancing shotgun vs lerk is through ranged mechanics e.g. spikes, ranged spores or some such.
Grenade spam is a different issue that warrants its own discussion e.g. lowering grenade aoe and damage to players overall. This affects all classes and the solution is not to randomly buff the hp of lerk.
In this prototype patch regen returns to being absolutely worthless.
Also, the lerk does not need more HP or AP to this extent... a hugely heavy handed change for a 30 res lifeform, you must remember EVERY SINGLE PLAYER on a team can go lerk, the point is to make them fragile enough to be killable. If you make them too strong (i.e. these changes), you will get mass lerk in every game.
p.s. any news on what's being done about the t-res/6min onos situation?
I'm hoping that the exo buff isn't meant to counter the early onos :(
It's not even a buff tbh. Just a higher base armor level for a1/a2 exos. The a3 Exo is still the same.
If he was simply trying to counteract the effect of shotguns, the solution will never be hp buffs like this because of the ripple effects it has on rifle marines. The solution to balancing shotgun vs lerk is through ranged mechanics e.g. spikes, ranged spores or some such.
Grenade spam is a different issue that warrants its own discussion e.g. lowering grenade aoe and damage to players overall. This affects all classes and the solution is not to randomly buff the hp of lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're defending a point as a lerk which a lot of the time you will find yourself doing, i find that at that point the lerk spikes are not viable and without spores there isn't much you can do against good marines, armor 3 and weapon 3 marines completely out do you on damage and damage resistance.
I personally don't believe this will change much, it just allows for the lerk to contend against two good marines and depending on the circumstances come out on top.
Late game when trying to umbra an Onos chances are you will die from grenades, your guard goes down for a second and then you are dead.
You're obviously speaking from more experience than i am though.
But i'd say 75 more HP is reasonable, that isn't much to a marine who has good aim.
In this prototype patch regen returns to being absolutely worthless.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
has it been reverted back to 228 values? doesnt sound intentional to me
@elodea you should definitely fill out the survey please (maybe after playing it a bit longer), thats the purpose of the mod! :)
@elodea you should definitely fill out the survey please (maybe after playing it a bit longer), thats the purpose of the mod! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yay, please keep it as a viable alternative to carapace, i think it's much more fun in theory, unless you're an onos ><
I personally don't believe this will change much, it just allows for the lerk to contend against two good marines and depending on the circumstances come out on top.
Late game when trying to umbra an Onos chances are you will die from grenades, your guard goes down for a second and then you are dead.
You're obviously speaking from more experience than i am though.
But i'd say 75 more HP is reasonable, that isn't much to a marine who has good aim.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well let's say the lerk is infact not viable against good marines and spikes are bad. If the lerk has problems dodging marine aim, increase flap force. <b>If</b> spikes are not viable, tweaks should be done to to spike damage, range, rof etc.
All i'm saying is, regardless of the current state of lerk (lets assume unviable), hp buffs of this magnitude are not the right way to go about solving it's issues.
that's kinda hard to do, as we'd like to actually playtest them, and it's not like we have a filter that tells us which servers are using this.
When I tried it the Onos and Fade were only regenerating 10 hp per tick out of combat O_o I will test it again though.
All i'm saying is, regardless of the current state of lerk (lets assume unviable), hp buffs of this magnitude are not the right way to go about solving it's issues.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flap force wont change much, as the Lerk as well as being a hit and run artist, is also a stationary sniper, problem is as soon as the marine spots you in your sniping position chances are you're dead before you can get away, sure if the marine team is bad you can land a bunch of kills before your lights are put out, but if they are good they will know immediately where you are and how best to deal with you.
Ok i agree that increased spike damage/DOT would also be a viable choice over more HP, the current lerk like the fade feels a little underwhelming at this point in time, a heavy flying class is definitely the better overall option though.
I personally don't believe this will change much, it just allows for the lerk to contend against two good marines and depending on the circumstances come out on top.
Late game when trying to umbra an Onos chances are you will die from grenades, your guard goes down for a second and then you are dead.
You're obviously speaking from more experience than i am though.
But i'd say 75 more HP is reasonable, that isn't much to a marine who has good aim.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It makes sense for Lerks to not be as viable late game (to me at least). Fully upgraded Marines are a late game thing. The lerk is more of an early-mid game lifeform. The Lerk feels pretty much fine to me. A good Lerk will give you lots of issues. They're an opportunist; harass harass and if there's an opening, swoop in. They're not supposed to be as tough as a Fade. And it's not like Lerks are useless late game, it's just that other things become <i>more</i> effective.
An increase in HP or Armor to the Fade is a better solution. They're required to get in a Rine's face in order to do damage.
Dont see the reason for the bite width, but w/e. on the flipside onos change looks like a step in the right direction.
The shift egg ability looks like a bit of a kneejerk reaction to the shift in base strat, hoping this doesnt lead to more egglocking, but i like the idea.
Exo health is welcome, low armor exos always felt maaad vulnerable.
Other changes seem minor/unnotable from my PoV.
On a sidenote, i recently commited structure names to memory because i kept forgetting/mixing up names... why arent veils called stalks? =[
An increase in HP or Armor to the Fade is a better solution. They're required to get in a Rine's face in order to do damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All aliens should be viable late game, just like all marine weapons should be viable late game, nobody wants to see a train of Onos or a train of exos.
The fade isn't tough at the moment, he needs buffs so being a little weaker than the current fade seems about right to me for a 30 res unit.
Changes seem decent overall. Lerks are pretty annoying at long range already, not looking forward to even more health on them, but do what you must :S .
Dont see the reason for the bite width, but w/e. on the flipside onos change looks like a step in the right direction.
The shift egg ability looks like a bit of a kneejerk reaction to the shift in base strat, hoping this doesnt lead to more egglocking, but i like the idea.
Exo health is welcome, low armor exos always felt maaad vulnerable.
Other changes seem minor/unnotable from my PoV.
On a sidenote, i recently commited structure names to memory because i kept forgetting/mixing up names... why arent veils called stalks? =[<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, you shouldn't be able to directly engage a shotgunner as a lerk without fear of a gib.
This is true, the problem is the shotgun is way too good against the skulk, the lerk and the Fade, the Aliens need a class aside from the Onos that they can play as without the fear of dying instantly at all time as they around every corner, when marines die they don't lose anything as weapons can just be picked up, but when Aliens die that is a huge investment down the drain.
Not a problem that will be solved by making the one class that doesn't have any major issues(spore usefulness aside) better against everything than it is right now.