Power Up Energy, Map Balance and Power Alerts

WakeeWakee Join Date: 2012-11-16 Member: 171957Members
edited November 2012 in Ideas and Suggestions
<div class="IPBDescription">3 suggestions</div>Been playing a lot of NS2 recently, mostly commanding for the Marines, and here are a couple of suggestions I think would help make NS2 even better:


1) <b>Fix Refinery:*</b>. Lava Flows, having the most trafficked area, and the most valuable area on the map be in the same place is silly. Yes there are other maps with two resource nodes. I think the game play on those map rotates around those points a little too much as is, but they are at least balanced by the fact, especially with Nano-Grid, you have to put some effort into getting there. Lava Flows is the hub of the map, pushing into any of the bases is extremely painful with out moving through Lava Flows. I have yet to see a game where the team that took and held Lava flows first didn't win, Marines or Aliens.

2) <b>Power Attack Alerts:</b> This is probably only a good idea for rooms with a Command Chair in them. The alerts around the map are almost nothing, a sound that is easily drownded out and a small blinking icon. This can end games extremely quickly later on, especially when Aliens first get Fades. For something that can end a game I would like some kind of loud siren or at least something big, flashy and red so I don't miss it in the audio and visual chaos of dropping power ups, jet packs grenades, roaring Onoses and blasting ARCs.

3) <b>Power-up Resource Cost:</b>. Create an alternate resource for Commanders abilities that buff players. This could take a couple of forms, but the main idea is to decouple one of the most satisfying things you can do as a commander: dropping health and ammo for your guys, and the ever so critical tech tree. It's really fun, and good for the Marines feeling like their commander is helping them, which further motivates them to continue to follow orders. However as you do this, you know you could be costing yourself by the game by ending up being late of phasegates, or jetpacks before Onos. There is some fleshing out to do, and a lot of directions to go with this, but I hope you guys can find a good solution. Some random thoughts:
<ul><li>Power meter that doesn't recharge for 5-10 seconds after the last power up was dropped, but recharges quickly.</li><li>Scale based on # of CCs, to keep the mechanic inline with what happens now, where the commander has more spare res to drop power up late games, the size of the power bar could go up as you take additional command centers. This would also motivate and reward marines to try and take and hold 3 bases.</li><li> Power bar scales with tech, can spend res to upgrade the number of resources you can drop.</li><li>Use stats from current "good" longer NS games to figure out about what the curve should look like. Possibly increase that a 10-20% to give the Commander more freedom to use those abilities, and nerf them accordingly. </li><li>Ammo should cost 1/3 or 1/4 of health, it really feels like the least you can do, keeping people supplied with Ammo.</li></ul>

It's possible that last one will throw the balance out of whack for all kinds of reasons I haven't considered. I can't say I've really played at anything resembling a competitive level, so I have no idea what a change like that's effect would be on high-level play. But I hope you will give the concept some thought and give Marine Commanders a way to incentivise and support his troops during a game with out feeling like he is shooting himself in the foot late game. I get that its part of the skill of being a Commander, knowing how and when to walk that line, but I feel like you could create a new mechanic that would require the same kind of skill and decision making, that is a lot more fun and less conflicting.

Apologies for the run on sentences, I hope you guys read this and find it valuable, I'm having quite a bit of fun with NS2.



*Thanks Safewood for map name.

Comments

  • Gin_OrphanGin_Orphan Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172081Members
    I agree, Lava Falls is a particular problem, moreso than the other central 2-node locations.
    I like the idea of keeping tres seperate from health packs/ammo while still making those limited resources.
    I am not particularly skilled at commanding, but I can certainly see that responding to a ninja attack on the main base's power node could be quite difficult without an effective alert telling both comm/marines that the node was taking damage.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2026616:date=Nov 17 2012, 03:29 PM:name=Wakee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wakee @ Nov 17 2012, 03:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3) <b>Power-up Resource Cost:</b>. Create an alternate resource for Commanders abilities that buff players. This could take a couple of forms, but the main idea is to decouple one of the most satisfying things you can do as a commander: dropping health and ammo for your guys, and the ever so critical tech tree. It's really fun, and good for the Marines feeling like their commander is helping them, which further motivates them to continue to follow orders. However as you do this, you know you could be costing yourself by the game by ending up being late of phasegates, or jetpacks before Onos. There is some fleshing out to do, and a lot of directions to go with this, but I hope you guys can find a good solution. Some random thoughts:
    <ul><li>Power meter that doesn't recharge for 5-10 seconds after the last power up was dropped, but recharges quickly.</li><li>Scale based on # of CCs, to keep the mechanic inline with what happens now, where the commander has more spare res to drop power up late games, the size of the power bar could go up as you take additional command centers. This would also motivate and reward marines to try and take and hold 3 bases.</li><li> Power bar scales with tech, can spend res to upgrade the number of resources you can drop.</li><li>Use stats from current "good" longer NS games to figure out about what the curve should look like. Possibly increase that a 10-20% to give the Commander more freedom to use those abilities, and nerf them accordingly. </li><li>Ammo should cost 1/3 or 1/4 of health, it really feels like the least you can do, keeping people supplied with Ammo.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    These resources used for these abilities have changed regularly during beta. At some point, command stations and hives had individual energy pools for some of these abilities. This turned out to be a little tricky because you'd have to go hunting through your tech points looking for one that had enough energy for what you wanted. For a while, commanders earned personal resources and would spend them on these abilities. Unfortunately this resulted in spent commanders having to hop out of the chair so someone else could hop in and drop medpacks.

    I like that they cost team res right now. I think helping a marine is about more than being a nice guy: Consider that if you last your last marine die, you might lose the res node he is guarding. Throwing him a few medpacks might actually save you a lot of resources, and keep you on-track on getting high tech toys. Ofcourse, if he dies anyway, and you lose the res-node as well... Then you're even worse off!

    Having commander abilities costing team resources forces us to make some difficult risk vs reward decisions.
  • WakeeWakee Join Date: 2012-11-16 Member: 171957Members
    I agree that it forces some very interesting risk vs reward decisions. I just think there is a way to build a mechanic that forces similar decisions, that doesn't feel so conflicting with sacrificing upgrade timing while still trying to help your team.

    Consider the power bar with a cool down, you are then making decisions when your team is pushing if you support them on the way to their target? Or wait until all hell breaks out when they get there? Which squad do you support with power-ups?

    I'm sad I missed out on the beta where some other mechanics were tried, it's good to see it was played around with a bit. The issue of having to hunt around when it was tied to energy at command stations sounds like a UI issue more than a gameplay problem. If they all contributed to some communal pool, or it would drop from whichever had more energy and you could see the levels of all Command Stations easily on the UI, then I think that mechanic could work with a close eye kept on balance.
  • Draco HoustonDraco Houston Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167145Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2026616:date=Nov 17 2012, 03:29 PM:name=Wakee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wakee @ Nov 17 2012, 03:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2026616"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) <b>Power Attack Alerts:</b> This is probably only a good idea for rooms with a Command Chair in them. The alerts around the map are almost nothing, a sound that is easily drownded out and a small blinking icon. This can end games extremely quickly later on, especially when Aliens first get Fades. For something that can end a game I would like some kind of loud siren or at least something big, flashy and red so I don't miss it in the audio and visual chaos of dropping power ups, jet packs grenades, roaring Onoses and blasting ARCs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Agreed, the alerts need to be better. There is a lot of noise and not a lot of information. I'd like a really big alert for power nodes that are powering buildings being attacked, and for structures inside the same room as a comm chair trigger a base under attack alert instead of the generic structure one.
  • RekuulRekuul Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172177Members
    I agree with OP. Especially regarding the power alerts.

    The Power Up mechanic/scan is really cool. I'd like to see Alien and Marine commanders take a bigger role in some of the fights by having a bit less risk associated with helping their team. There is no doubt that its a Risk vs. Reward mechanic, but being focused on helping your team should be encouraged. A shallow energy pool that transitioned to team resources as soon as it was depleted would encourage commanders to drop the freebie health/ammo every once in a while, and force them to play the same risk vs. reward game for big pushes.
  • ShotteShotte Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172181Members
    I agree with all three of these suggestions.

    Every game of refinery I play is a rush to take lava falls. Whoever takes it and holds it seems to always win. It would be nice if it wasn't so critical to winning.

    There is a lot of chaos when areas are being attacked and the alert system should be much more noticeable.

    I have not done much commanding, but the separate resource system sounds interesting and would probably make commanding much easier for those who are inexperienced. It seems like very few commanders know how to properly balance the risk vs reward of participating in combat through supply drops and working on tech upgrades. Most seem to just focus on tech upgrades since that is usually the safest bet. I think commanding would be much more fun if your could participate more in the combat without the fear of screwing up your build order to the extent that you make it not winnable.
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members
    edited November 2012
    I go alien commander a lot in refinery, and more often than not I tell my team to specifically avoid lava falls. To annoy them there if you can, and but don't focus on it or try and take it from them if they do manage to get a phase gate there.

    Often, the marines will be so worried about taking lava falls that they'll completely neglect the rest of the map, or not send enough people to pipeworks or smelting, and get decimated there. The 2 harvesters i'm missing out on by not going for pipeworks is more than made up for by the 4-5 harvesters i'm getting by focusing on the rest of the map. And chances are, once we start outteching the marine side, as a result of them neglecting the rest of the map, we will take lava falls from them without much hassle.

    If my alien team ignores me, and focuses too much on lava falls early game, or I go against my better judgement and try and get an early shift/harvesters up at lava, more often than not, we lose the game (although I've certainly had some successful games where i've capped lava early).

    That's just my experience with refinery anyway. I'd really like to see some competitive games played on refinery to get a feel for how things work on that map in higher-level play.
  • willbottwillbott Join Date: 2012-11-17 Member: 172197Members
    I like the idea creating a separate resource for buffing players, I just worry that giving your team mates these buffs may become tedious with a cooldown feature, although allowing commanders to queue a few drops up might help that. Cant speak to map balance as I havent played enough. Solid suggestions otherwise.
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