Exo disadvantages
Norton
Join Date: 2005-01-13 Member: 35264Members
Join Date: 2005-01-13 Member: 35264Members
I cannot imagine a single situation where I would rather have an Exosuit than a jetpack. The only thing Exos do is trick new players and commanders into wasting resources on them. Honestly they are worse than having nothing at all. Quick rundown on their problems.
1. Slow
2. Expensive
3. Can't heal at armory
4. Can't build
5. Can't weld
6. Not better than jetpack vs any alien.
and here is the big one
7. Cannot be beaconed or use phasegate
I am having a hard time understanding the exosuit's role and what sort of strategies you would want to use it for. Without fail every time I see my team do an exo push on a hive, our main base immediately gets reamed by double onos and a fade, and suddenly our main is gone. Even a skulk rush proves really hard to stop because you can only beacon the members of your team that are not in exos. Suddenly your exos are left all alone and vulnerable and you don't even have a proper force to hold your main with.
Not only are they bad in nearly every way, they are huge and block line of sight for all the marines. They are such an easy target for all the aliens to just focus on immediately. They obviously cannot be super strong death machines or that would be imbalanced and unfun for aliens, but as they are now they are just a liability and a newb trap. I really miss heavy armor.
I guess the easiest fix I can think of is just make them smaller and able to do all the stuff normal marines can do. I don't see why they have to be so slow, this is the future and its the ultimate marine purchase. Onos definitely isn't slow. Also, slow things with no movement options don't require skill and are boring.
1. Slow
2. Expensive
3. Can't heal at armory
4. Can't build
5. Can't weld
6. Not better than jetpack vs any alien.
and here is the big one
7. Cannot be beaconed or use phasegate
I am having a hard time understanding the exosuit's role and what sort of strategies you would want to use it for. Without fail every time I see my team do an exo push on a hive, our main base immediately gets reamed by double onos and a fade, and suddenly our main is gone. Even a skulk rush proves really hard to stop because you can only beacon the members of your team that are not in exos. Suddenly your exos are left all alone and vulnerable and you don't even have a proper force to hold your main with.
Not only are they bad in nearly every way, they are huge and block line of sight for all the marines. They are such an easy target for all the aliens to just focus on immediately. They obviously cannot be super strong death machines or that would be imbalanced and unfun for aliens, but as they are now they are just a liability and a newb trap. I really miss heavy armor.
I guess the easiest fix I can think of is just make them smaller and able to do all the stuff normal marines can do. I don't see why they have to be so slow, this is the future and its the ultimate marine purchase. Onos definitely isn't slow. Also, slow things with no movement options don't require skill and are boring.
Comments
make them walking tanks
as i play, Onos scares the crap outta me, making me run looking for teamates.
exos dont scare me at all
The two exos and some welding marines as backup pushed tram, so naturally aliens rushed terminal for the power node, comm beaconed leaving us two exos. We held off wave after wave of skulks and fades and slowly destroyed structures one a time in tram. We constantly fell back till we got welded, only for marines to be beaconed again, this happened at least three times, eventually the exos took down Tram. We secured it and moved off to generator, same deal with the beaconing and holding off waves and slowly pushing hive. Once generator was down we had the momentum, and aliens just lost all theirs as well as compusure, their res nodes were all taken out by the constant exo push. Then we won, and guess what, it was the exos that won it.
How?
Dont be retarded with your exos and put yourself in a situation where you can get swarmed from all sides ie push for a open hive when the approach itself had little resistance cause guess what, the aliens are probably all waiting to chomp your ass.
Know when to fall back, and hold key corridors rather than an entire room where aliens will maneuver around your guns.
Dont all shoot at once, coordinate minigun firings so there is never all exos overheating at once.
Focus onos, communication is the key.
TL;DR learn to exo, it has its uses
Personally, I suspect a <i>single</i> exo on base defense would be quite effective, and having it on defense would negate the beacon issue. Gorges would have a hard time hitting an exo who is camping a doorway from a distance as well.
Offensively, an exo attracts a lot of attention. Committing your entire team to an exo train just leaves the rest of the map (including your bases) vulnerable. Getting one exo to make some noise over on the western side of your map while your jetpackers ninja a hive on the east side of the map could be an effective distraction.
infinite ammo and very high dps, not to mention having >1000 hit points (compared to the marine having 280 hit points).
oh... and have fun trying to kill an exosuit that's getting repaired.
imo the only reason exo is not great, especially in competitive games, is that you can't defend with it because PG's and beacon don't work. you attack veil c-12 as an exosuit, the alien can literally destroy nanogrid, skylights, overlook, topo and basically every RT on the map while avoiding contact with the exo 100% of the time.
make them walking tanks
as i play, Onos scares the crap outta me, making me run looking for teamates.
exos dont scare me at all<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats because exosuits are slow. You can outmaneuver them. Main scary thing about an onos is its nearly impossible to escape them if they charge you down.
A fully Upp'd Exo vrs a Fully Upp'd Onos.
The onos will win. You are dealing something with 2400 health vrs something with 350. The onos can easily out manuever the exo and destroy it.
If the onos is smart he would use stomp to disable the welder. Then just smash the exo to bits.
But to be a fair fight it would be Exo + welder vrs Onos + Gorge. If gorge bile bombed exo. Exo is essentially blind and loosing health over time. So is the marine welding it.
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As for Exo's Ball of death. A good alien comm can always win if a Ball of death Exo comes. By simply attacking Humans main base every time. [Just attack power node] don't attack anything else. Human comm will either becon. Causing him to most likely loose the exos. Or Not know its his power node, and loose the game.
If he does becon and loose the exos. The aliens have to push fast and retake lost area. Humans may have more resources for another exo push. But they would loose dominance quite quickly if done right.
Really comes down to the alien commander and the players. [I know its quiet possible because we won alot of times with this tactic quite well]
Example; warehouse if you have a com in the warehouse chair you can get into the rafters... Of if you have another exo to jump off of.
My point is if your making a 3 exo 5 rine push on a base your setting yourself up to get raped back at base. But if you make a 2 exo 5 rine push you can leave an exo in base(hopefully in a place onos can't easily get to) and most likely scare off a rush.
The two most important things you can do as an exo are a) never go alone b) keep track of onos on mini map. If you saw an onos kill a guy up ahead asume he's waiting for you around the corner. An exos biggest advantage is range you should never round a corner if an onos was in the vicinity within the last 10 seconds back up and use a hallway.
Tactical retreat is key to any higher lifeform in most situations the least patient player losses. If you have players headed you way wait 5 seconds, if your in an exo alone because they got beaconed move to the place with the best vantage and longer hallways and wait.
In order for their to be a fight there has to be two people your one of those two people choose where you want the fight to happen and avoid places where the enemy has the advantage
The onos will win. You are dealing something with 2400 health vrs something with 350.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even without upgrades, a smart solo onos absolutely decimates a solo exo. That being said, it's a heck of a lot more than 350: Armor innately absorbs some of the damage it receives.
I don't really remember the exact details, but an onos hits structure for about 200 damage, and it takes a good 6 or 7 hits to take out an exo. I'm thinking it works out to around 1200 or so effective health.
1. Infinite ammo
2. Huge DPS
3. Armor up to 580
4. Motion tracking
They can take a hive down faster than anything, and are even better at defense if you just mind your positioning. I think the exo's are in a good place. Jetpacks are just dirt cheap.
- You need 1 sec to start shooting
- In fights you don't see anything
Making beacon/PG available to Exos would help a lot.
Should you becon? or should you not. Are you willing to loose your exos? or not. All a power play.
After for Exos being able to travel in unique locations thats true. But right now map design is so limited. There really is no vantage points for Exos.
I really wish their were more spots on the map for marines to hide from an onos. For example a spot to think for an onos to run through, just enough for a marine.
Did this yesterday we had command/sub they had cargo/pipe/double. No mater how hard we couldn't make any head way so I snuck into maintenance got a pg up and asked the com to drop me a proto.... Turns out two exos can rape a hive if no one is around...
On a side note while I agree onos>Exo it's still very risky as an onos to attack an Exo unless the Exo is terrible you will be very low hp and if there is a rine or 2 around they have a good chance of finishing you off. As an onos I avoid Exos unless I absolutely have to so if an Exo is camping his base his base is safe unless I have at least 1-2 onos with me.
IIRC the damage from miniguns are not mitigated by armour at all.
Fun is priceless!!!
Exo's can often win the game in the situation where you can force the alien to fight them by threatening something they need. An exo march, if it's not seriously countered, will sweep one hive after another faster than the hives can return to life.
If you can either both do the exo rush and prevent a base race, or if you can do the exo rush and seriously delay the base race, then exo's can win you the game.
<u>The major benefit that marines have over aliens is RANGE.</u>
This applies to all marines, but people seem to ignore the fact that it is even more important with an exo. Comparing health or other base stats between an exosuit and an onos is meaningless, because a good exo will use their range.
Example: You are a single dual-minigun exosuit going around the map with a welder. If you are at the end of a hallway, and an onos walks around the corner and starts running towards you, you have that entire amount of time it takes for it to get near you to be dealing <u>constant damage to the onos</u> . If the onos isn't dead by the time it gets to you, it usually doesn't take long if he does.
Good exosuit pilots will use their range advantage effectively. This means waiting and the end of hallways, not putting yourself in close quarters, having marines scout out around corners to make sure there isn't an onos waiting for you, and remembering that you are <u>not invincible.</u> If you do not like the fact that you move slowly, then the exosuit is just not for you. It is a slow process, that pays off with high DPS. I guarantee you, that in an exo vs onos situation where the exo is at the end of the hallway and the onos is the aggressor, the exo <u>WILL win 90% of the time.</u>
To give you a little more perspective, here is what I try and do is an onos vs exo situation on the aliens side:
If I see or hear an exo, I will not run towards it because I know that is a death sentence. Rather, what I will do is simply wait right around the corner and wait for it to walk around so I can demolish it. Just as with any other alien lifeform, the most important strategy is all about closing distance and not giving the ranged marine that advantage.
<u>The major benefit that marines have over aliens is RANGE.</u>
This applies to all marines, but people seem to ignore the fact that it is even more important with an exo. Comparing health or other base stats between an exosuit and an onos is meaningless, because a good exo will use their range.
Example: You are a single dual-minigun exosuit going around the map with a welder. If you are at the end of a hallway, and an onos walks around the corner and starts running towards you, you have that entire amount of time it takes for it to get near you to be dealing <u>constant damage to the onos</u> . If the onos isn't dead by the time it gets to you, it usually doesn't take long if he does.
Good exosuit pilots will use their range advantage effectively. This means waiting and the end of hallways, not putting yourself in close quarters, having marines scout out around corners to make sure there isn't an onos waiting for you, and remembering that you are <u>not invincible.</u> If you do not like the fact that you move slowly, then the exosuit is just not for you. It is a slow process, that pays off with high DPS. I guarantee you, that in an exo vs onos situation where the exo is at the end of the hallway and the onos is the aggressor, the exo <u>WILL win 90% of the time.</u>
To give you a little more perspective, here is what I try and do is an onos vs exo situation on the aliens side:
If I see or hear an exo, I will not run towards it because I know that is a death sentence. Rather, what I will do is simply wait right around the corner and wait for it to walk around so I can demolish it. Just as with any other alien lifeform, the most important strategy is all about closing distance and not giving the ranged marine that advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The main benefit aliens have over marines IS SPEED. Aliens usually have the choice of weather to fully commit, to hit and run, or to not commit at all. Marines generally don't get to make that choice. If they can't kill whatever they are fighting against outright, they will just die.
Exo's are constantly presented with this situation where they are forced to fight in little corners, because the aliens just didn't move forwards until the exo was close enough to attack.
These 2 things are the fundamental balance axiom that NS2 is built off of. Marines always have to try to exploit the range advantage, and aliens always have to try to exploit the speed advantage, and whoever does a better job of exploiting there own specific advantage wins the skirmish (and probably the game).
A 15% increase to movement speed would also go a long ways
If your exo has the HAND they should probably be able to build stuff too
Being able to heal at an Armory might be too good though because I think they can shoot over one and just be immortal
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Not so sure about the single-gun exo. Removing yourself from beacon/phase availability for that feels like a questionable decision.