Why Don't Marines Have Electrify?
Al_Ka_Pwn
Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63264Members
Join Date: 2007-12-26 Member: 63264Members
In NS1 marines had research that let them electrify rez nodes so that aliens had to devote a larger lifeform into attacking it and it helped cut down on the harass of these rez nodes. And now that it's gone marines really have to play this wretched game of whack a mole in regards to defending rez towers and any time they attack something suddenly all their rez is gone because the can't mob move to defend it.
Why did this feature go away?
Why did this feature go away?
Comments
Basically, it was only viable at a time when it's mechanic hurt game play.
All it would really do is give the Marines a slightly bigger window to respond to Aliens chomping on resource nodes. A lot of the time newer commanders are already going to waste a lot of T.Res on turrets for resource nodes that get repeatedly eaten, only to have them get bile bombed a few minutes later.
Make electrify cheaper than a turret farm, barely, and you've got something that might actually be useful to the Marines without breaking the game for Aliens.
I hate to say it, but I don't hate the idea even though I'm biased towards Aliens. Although I think the damage from an electrify function should only do damage if you actually <i>hit</i> the node with a melee attack rather than an area-of-effect just from being near it. Otherwise, it could easily be OP. Also, the electric shield should only work while powered, obviously.
Devour was on the balance of things not that great, but it had some points going for it. Namely it required skill to aim well and was especially gratifying against JPs. It also made the weapon they were carrying unrecoverable(more or less), so there's that dimension to it. However for the reasons stated it just wasn't fun looking at some innards for however long it took to die.
<!--quoteo(post=2027658:date=Nov 18 2012, 01:05 AM:name=Al_Ka_Pwn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Al_Ka_Pwn @ Nov 18 2012, 01:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it helped cut down on the harass of these rez nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour was on the balance of things not that great, but it had some points going for it. Namely it required skill to aim well and was especially gratifying against JPs. It also made the weapon they were carrying unrecoverable(more or less), so there's that dimension to it. However for the reasons stated it just wasn't fun looking at some innards for however long it took to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As it is, playing shack a mole on RTs is not fun, nor gratifying. The whole point of the fields was to allow marine teams to actually have a chance of doing offensives early on. Skulks can just harrass everything down in a second with celerity, and marines have to play catch up throughout the entire match to keep up. Fields would allow some diversity and options for strategy.
Do you electrify that node and wait for a weapon upgrade, or do you get that upgrade and hope that you can keep up with the harrassment? Seriously, not rocket science here.
But then, I absolutely hate the addition of power nodes.
All it would really do is give the Marines a slightly bigger window to respond to Aliens chomping on resource nodes. A lot of the time newer commanders are already going to waste a lot of T.Res on turrets for resource nodes that get repeatedly eaten, only to have them get bile bombed a few minutes later.
Make electrify cheaper than a turret farm, barely, and you've got something that might actually be useful to the Marines without breaking the game for Aliens.
I hate to say it, but I don't hate the idea even though I'm biased towards Aliens. Although I think the damage from an electrify function should only do damage if you actually <i>hit</i> the node with a melee attack rather than an area-of-effect just from being near it. Otherwise, it could easily be OP. Also, the electric shield should only work while powered, obviously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it only works while powered, then it doesn't defend the power node, and therefore it basically doesn't defend the node at all. If your goal is simply to stop res flow taking the powernode down is actually faster than taking the resource node down. If this is the implementation of electrify then why bother making it cost anywhere near as much as a turret farm?
There's a SLIGHT advantage to taking the resource node down and leaving the powernode, because it costs the commander 10 res. But it actually delays the marine team less time then targeting the powernode instead. Both are very annoying.
Sentries biggest advantage is that they're battery powered. They just kind of suck too much for that to matter though.
it would force skulks to destroy the powernode first before attacking the res node (no power, no electrify)
Devour was on the balance of things not that great, but it had some points going for it. Namely it required skill to aim well and was especially gratifying against JPs. It also made the weapon they were carrying unrecoverable(more or less), so there's that dimension to it. However for the reasons stated it just wasn't fun looking at some innards for however long it took to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nodes can still be harrased by long range shooters. As well as Onos.
Devour was useless because you could just devour and run away. Completely disabling a unit immedieatly.
Stomp is a great fair solution. It disables the unit temporarily long enough to kill. Also you can stomp multiple marines near by.
But it doesn't allow the onos to permentantly disable a unit and just do cheap devour and run tactics.
Devour was useless because you could just devour and run away. Completely disabling a unit immedieatly.
Stomp is a great fair solution. It disables the unit temporarily long enough to kill. Also you can stomp multiple marines near by.
But it doesn't allow the onos to permentantly disable a unit and just do cheap devour and run tactics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they can't. At the point in the game where elec nodes become feasible, skulks are the only lifeforms you can reliably spare to deal with map issues outside of defending your hive. You don't have free fades and onos to go kill elec nodes, and gorges are too immobile to be reliable about it. It was one of those slippery slope things that prevented aliens from making realistic comebacks in the late game, but otherwise did nothing of benefit at all for the gameplay.
It felt like cleaning a toilet with a toothbrush :(
Its to stop minimal harrassmement. 3 Skulks on a RN would still easily take it out and retreat.
Then you have Lerks Range shot also
Stomp is about as fun as devour was, even less even, at least you could giggle in devour, when stomped you are too busy raging because you cant get back up to fight the onos. ;/
Actually, my favorite part about devour was yelling to my teammates, "Save me, save me! Shoot him! SHOOT HIM!"
If all you did was pout every time you got nommed on, you really missed out on some hectic fun.
That aside, I can see how it would really disappoint players new to NS.
As far as electrifying power nodes or resource nodes... I can see many good reasons not to do it.
But let me throw this one at you... electrified sentry batteries. They would zap whatever hits them and do a slight amount of damage with a short stun. No, wait... this is a terrible idea, unless somebody else says otherwise.
I can count on my hands all the times I've seen someone die to a sentry battery in NS2 so far in the 40 hours I've played, and most of those cases it was in the din of chaos that it actually happened.
+1
<!--quoteo(post=2028372:date=Nov 18 2012, 09:52 PM:name=Timarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Timarius @ Nov 18 2012, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But let me throw this one at you... electrified sentry batteries. They would zap whatever hits them and do a slight amount of damage with a short stun. No, wait... this is a terrible idea, unless somebody else says otherwise.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would negate the need to have covering fields of fire from the turrets. So as you said, a terrible idea.
So electrify the node.
Skulk comes in, sees electrified node, kills power node, then kills res tower. Same result, but he has to spend a bit more time on it. Either way, even if he only gets the power node the end result is the same. No res from that location. Isn't that what it's all about?
The maps are smaller then in NS1 and marines are like twice as fast. If marines keep a phase gate at every tech point they control then they only have a very short distance to run to any res node they also control.
Taking out extractors is the one thing skulks are good for late game and should not be removed. As is if you can't get a marine to a extractors before one skulk takes it down it means your marines are not very good.
Edit: I do not see anyone asking for a system to defend harvesters, they are even more vulnerable. And with phase gates marines can navigate the map faster then aliens mid to late game.
All it would really do is give the Marines a slightly bigger window to respond to Aliens chomping on resource nodes. A lot of the time newer commanders are already going to waste a lot of T.Res on turrets for resource nodes that get repeatedly eaten, only to have them get bile bombed a few minutes later.
Make electrify cheaper than a turret farm, barely, and you've got something that might actually be useful to the Marines without breaking the game for Aliens.
I hate to say it, but I don't hate the idea even though I'm biased towards Aliens. Although I think the damage from an electrify function should only do damage if you actually <i>hit</i> the node with a melee attack rather than an area-of-effect just from being near it. Otherwise, it could easily be OP. Also, the electric shield should only work while powered, obviously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completly agree!
I think devour should be kept for onos however 2 changes need to be made:
Marines are in protective suits and should be allowed to fight while in a belly. Let the marines do some damage to an onos wih right click.
The other function would need to be:
No regen effect for onos as you are digesting metal and that should be harmful! Rather it should slow down the max movement speed on an onos by 15% and if the onos takes a certian amount of damage he would then "throw up" his meal
Also:
<!--quoteo(post=2028398:date=Nov 18 2012, 09:30 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 18 2012, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028398"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't recall a time in NS2 I've been glad that I've dropped sentry batteries. They seem to be a sort of smoothing mechanism for bad comms so they don't have to pay as much attention to what's going on in their bases. Sentry batteries do absolutely zero in terms of preventing the big rushes that generally take down bases, and they very rarely significantly discourage a ninja either.
I can count on my hands all the times I've seen someone die to a sentry battery in NS2 so far in the 40 hours I've played, and most of those cases it was in the din of chaos that it actually happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They'll get you a "gotcha" kill here and there, much like mines, but they're also really nice supporting fire for marine on alien fights if your troops are outskilled or outnumbered. That said, I always groan when a comm builds a robo factory early game. I have yet to see that be a good idea unless you're playing a 3v3 or something. The battery itself could probably stand for an HP buff, they go down pretty fast.