"Slot" Based Evolution Menu

Bad Mojo · November 2012

<div class="IPBDescription">An alternative that helps scale the Kharaa</div>Foreword

The Problem:
There have already been many discussions concerning the lack of alien scaling in NS2. Most alien lifeforms feel less useful once people have access to Onos.
- Skulks, while free, are basically useless in end-game engagements vs a3 marines, relatively cheap JPs/SGs, and super-healing armories.
- Mid-tier lifeforms are too weak. Why go Lerk/Fade when you can save for Onos? The risk of dying in an instant and losing the 30/50 res investment is too great.
- Only viable strategy is to skip from early to end game with 6 minute Onos

Proposed Solution:
Create a set number of "evolution slots" that are available depending on the number of built Hives. Each Lifeform will take up a certain number of slots, and upgrades/abilities will take up a single slot each. Additionally, you can evolve multiple upgrades of the same type, which will benefit ealier lifeforms more and later lifeforms less. This is easier explained by showing the numbers involved, and possible scenarios...

How It Works

Hives
One Hive = 3 Slots
Two Hives = 5 Slots
Three Hives = 8 Slots
Four Hives = 10 Slots

Slot Requirements for Lifeforms and Upgrades
Skulk = 0 Slots
Gorge = 1 Slot
Lerk = 2 Slots
Fade = 3 Slots
Onos = 5 Slots

All Upgrades = 1 Slot
A second Upgrade of the same type = 2 Slots AND requires 2 Hives
A third Upgrade (on the presumption that all hives types will eventually have 3) = 3 Slots and requires 3 Hives

All Researchable abilities (Leap, Bile Bomb, etc) = 1 Slot and still must be researched by the Khammander

So to lay out a couple of scenarios...

At one hive, skulks, gorges, and lerks will only be able to use one slot for a single upgrade
You can evolve to Fade, but since it would use up all three of your slots, you cannot get any upgrades.
You cannot evolve Onos at one Hive.

At two hives, A skulk with 5 available slots would be able to two upgrades of a single type, another upgrade from a second type, and Leap, using all 5 slots
A Lerk will be left with 3 slots, and thus could take two of an upgrade type, forgoing spores, or take one of each and spores
* Fades would only have two available slots, and so could take either two upgrades of two different types, or one upgrade and one ability
You can evolve Onos at two hives, but take no upgrades

At Three Hives, Skulks will have 8 slots available, so one could take a large variety of upgrade combinations (example: Cara, Regen, Silence, Celerity, Adrenaline, Leap). Taking 3 upgrades of the same type would use 6 slots.

Issues

* I think this could work very well if implemented correctly. I've given it a lot of thought, and I realize that this model has some flaws. One of my main concerns is that games often move from mid to late game while the aliens have been holding two hives. An Onos shouldn't be deprived of upgrades of any kind in this case, and the same goes for the two hive Fade only having two upgrade slots. The only way I can currently think to work around this issue is to give the second hive a 6th slot upon fully maturing.

A couple other things I would change are where several of the abilities become available. Leap and Spores would both be researchable at 1 Hive, and Fades should lose Shadow Step and start with blink. An early one hive Fade with blink and no upgrades is weak but could still be viable in the early game. Having the option of early Fades (with blink), Spores, and Leap at the first hive all could potentially rival the 6 minute Onos strat. The problem is that the game is missing features right now, such as the 3rd upgrades for each hive type (Hypermutation, Feign Death, Something else for CragHive). Onos is missing a second hive ability, and the third hive abilities are subpar currently. All of that would have to be balanced around this system if it were implemented.

The numbers might be terrible and unbalanced, but that's where you guys will come in and point out the problems. It's the model of using the slot system that I'm most interested in presenting.

RMJ · November 2012

It would definitely help the turtle problem and keep making Aliens stronger, when they have the most hives.

Just like when marines have the most bases they have so many exos, jetpacks and grenade launchers.

They should really make a PTR server to try out stuff like this, or allow people with mods to test it for them.

TimMc · November 2012

I thought about implementing something like this as a mod, but would require bit of work. Currently no structures use slots - crag/shift/shade change the hive to a different entity, same with shells and other upgrades.

But yeah, I would like to see this. Would make alot of tactical choice on which upgrades you get, and gives certain hives a higher value (eg if they have leap upgraded there).

l3lessed · November 2012

Hmm, interesting idea, but there are a number of balance problems to deal with. Not to mention, not even enough ability options to fill a skulks 10 slots at four hives. I think something a long these lines, but a little simpler and more elegant. Maybe nix the alien life form slot cost, and instead just have it apply to abilities. Start with the standard three slots, but for each extra hive, you get one extra ability slot.

one hive = three ability slots.
two hives = four ability slots.
three = five ability slots.
four = six ability slots.

I don't see what making the life forms use slots does other than create unneeded complications.

Lastly, I would also like to see a whip ability upgrade tree too, which adds damage based ability upgrades. With this and extra slots, it would help with scaling while increasing alien customization and immersion for players.

Sorry, I think I might of hijacked your thread a little.

Bad Mojo · November 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l3lessed @ Nov 18 2012, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028242"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Hmm, interesting idea, but there are a number of balance problems to deal with. Not to mention, not even enough ability options to fill a skulks 10 slots at four hives. I think something a long these lines, but a little simpler and more elegant. Maybe nix the alien life form slot cost, and instead just have it apply to abilities. Start with the standard three slots, but for each extra hive, you get one extra ability slot.

one hive = three ability slots.
two hives = four ability slots.
three = five ability slots.
four = six ability slots.

I don't see what making the life forms use slots does other than create unneeded complications.

Lastly, I would also like to see a whip ability upgrade tree too, which adds damage based ability upgrades. With this and extra slots, it would help with scaling while increasing alien customization and immersion for players.

Sorry, I think I might of hijacked your thread a little.</div>

The way it is meant to work is that if you get upgrades from the same hive type, they cost increasingly more. So when you take carapace, it's 1 point. Adding regen would be an additional 2 points, and then the third upgrade (when/if one is added) would be three more. That would be a total of 6 points for those three. Following that formula, the most upgrades a skulk could have is 6 out of the total 9. Remember I'm assuming that all three hive types will eventually have a third upgrade implemented. Of course, maxing out at 6 upgrades means you wouldn't even have leap.

I don't feel like it's merely complicating things. It does make upgrade possibilities much more complex, but it also allows skulks to take several upgrades later in the game to maintain some effectiveness that they lose in the current system.

The numbers, as I said, could be largely up for debate regarding how many slots should be available at a given number of hives. There are many variables to consider in how this would need to be balanced out.

"Slot" Based Evolution Menu

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