I know that UWE has addressed the replay system lacking features, but have they addressed the fact that it literally doesn't work at all?
1) you can't view a demo if it was recorded in a different resolution 2) if I put my graphics settings to high it moves in complete slow motion because it just doesn't run 3) if I try to watch it on the *same* settings that I recorded it, it still skips and lags<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's a replay feature? I thought they were pushing that back to well after release. Good on them for getting something out. It's a challenging feature.
<!--quoteo(post=2027445:date=Nov 17 2012, 08:02 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Nov 17 2012, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Also, it looks like the Verizon data is for enterprise (think server farms) connections, not residential. I'd double or even triple those latency values to account for residential connections.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->These tests are taken from their core stations which forwards ALL traffic; my latency follows this report pretty closely, I have Comcast as well. You may want to consider switching ISPs if your latency is that bad. Just to emphasize, the report is an average.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2024634:date=Nov 15 2012, 10:53 AM:name=Metal Handkerchief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Metal Handkerchief @ Nov 15 2012, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't get it either. On Summit, sitting at max range on any of the hundreds of random ledges a lerk can sit on in crevice, I've shot maybe 4 needles worth of spikes (silenced spikes no less) at a marine coming out of the Flight Control door, and have been killed before visually even being able to see the marine in question turning towards me. And it's not just a fluke either, has happened several times with all the parameters changed (server, opponent, ledge, angle) and it really grinds my gears that I can be smoked by someone who visually has their back towards me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not so much as lerk, but other lifeforms and even marines. I often get hit by my target when on my screen he's looking in the opposite direction of me.
This isn't a HUGE deal, I know that on his screen he's actually shooting me, and maybe I'm in a totally different place... but it's at the point where it's destructive to my ability to interact with him. I'm interacting with a dumb technological copy. Not the other player. You can't ever really say to yourself "oh, he's looking the other way, so I'm safe".
does the game use lcient side hit detection? if so then regardless of what you are doing on your client, if the attacking player sees you on his then he can hit you. through lag and or server issues this is a common occurance.
<!--quoteo(post=2028163:date=Nov 18 2012, 04:36 PM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Nov 18 2012, 04:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028163"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->does the game use lcient side hit detection? if so then regardless of what you are doing on your client, if the attacking player sees you on his then he can hit you. through lag and or server issues this is a common occurance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I understand it this is kind of the way it works. It's doing this, but there's some other weird stuff going on as well.
Even standing in front of an RT with a shotgun unloading rounds into it sometimes 80% of the pellets just choose to miss. But I do know that you don't need to lead your shots or anything like that, so at least the majority of your hit reg is client side.
<!--quoteo(post=2027596:date=Nov 17 2012, 11:38 PM:name=PseudoKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight @ Nov 17 2012, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2027596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So your solution is to replace a subtle visual discrepancy that only a few people notice with a gigantic visual discrepancy that everyone notices? Lag compensation levels the playing field and improves the experience for most players. Improvements can be made, but they usually go hand in hand with performance optimizations, which have been slow going with the lua layer overhead. (as far as I understand it) NS1, iirc, had even worse server performance at release. Let's not freak out here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Broken lag compensation is far from a subtle discrepancy. I would accept lag compensation if it worked properly, as I stated before, it's a great idea. But, for 14 years now it has not worked as intended. It is easily reproducible on any game, and more predominate the faster it is; play on a LAN server which should have no more than 10ms latency that has lag compensation. Then, play on a LAN server that doesn't use lag compensation. The difference is impeccable, sharp nearly 100% accurate shots, nothing is questioned because everything lands how it's supposed to.
I think the main problem is that the large majority of players out there today have never played without lag compensation. They have nothing to compare their experiences with.
NS1 had some issues when it launched, but nothing near what NS2 is suffering from.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The game has no client side hit reg, it has client side prediction that is tested against what the server sees. The scrolling combat text (damage numbers) are also server side, that is why it also is a tiny fraction delayed on when you see it pop up. The blood FX and hit icon on the crosshair are client side predicted, which can be wrong at times.
The server is 100% responsible for the hitreg, would be open for exploitation if the client side was responsible to tell the server it hit something.
<!--quoteo(post=2028171:date=Nov 18 2012, 01:48 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 18 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As I understand it this is kind of the way it works. It's doing this, but there's some other weird stuff going on as well.
Even standing in front of an RT with a shotgun unloading rounds into it sometimes 80% of the pellets just choose to miss. But I do know that you don't need to lead your shots or anything like that, so at least the majority of your hit reg is client side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that's because of a bug - when you shoot structures they "flail" around and so does their hitbox, but it doesn't match up at all it just swings wildly
I find myself being shot through corners after running away from marines quite often (and yes, it is actually being shot through corners and not just the perception). Actually saw the same thing happen in the Friday Night Show Match WasabiOne did last Friday. You can see the alien fly/run/jump/whatever around the corner while being shot and the ichor splatter (from bullet hits) continues after they are out of line of sight. The bullets continue to pass behind the alien, but the alien is still getting hit.
Assuming this is the lag compensation, but not 100% sure since there are quite a few factors at work. Whatever it is, it is annoying as **** and incredibly frustrating and rage inducing when it happens repeatedly.
<!--quoteo(post=2028199:date=Nov 18 2012, 05:28 PM:name=Samus1111111)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Samus1111111 @ Nov 18 2012, 05:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find myself being shot through corners after running away from marines quite often (and yes, it is actually being shot through corners and not just the perception). Actually saw the same thing happen in the Friday Night Show Match WasabiOne did last Friday. You can see the alien fly/run/jump/whatever around the corner while being shot and the ichor splatter (from bullet hits) continues after they are out of line of sight. The bullets continue to pass behind the alien, but the alien is still getting hit.
Assuming this is the lag compensation, but not 100% sure since there are quite a few factors at work. Whatever it is, it is annoying as **** and incredibly frustrating and rage inducing when it happens repeatedly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You were spectating or you were the shooter? Spectators have a visual perception of lag compensation as well. You can kind of think of it as bullets hit you, but you only feel it (and bleed) 1 second later.
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This quote was taken from another <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124752" target="_blank">hit detection tread</a>, but is spot on to this discussion ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2028145:date=Nov 18 2012, 03:08 PM:name=sumguy720)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sumguy720 @ Nov 18 2012, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... before I saw this thread I was under the suspicion that my on-target shots weren't being registered as hits. I noticed this mostly with the pistol and rifle.
This has been frustrating especially in instances where many marines (3-5) are attacked by a single skulk, and it takes a full clip or two from every member to finally take it down ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is what I've been referring to with broken lag compensation. Why display the model where it is, if it really is not there and you're not going to give me the shot? Furthermore, show me blood and give me reason that my shot trajectory is correct ...
A lot of people rely on what they see to interact with the world around them, this is no different in a video game. It also follows heavily upon the technique of player movement and shot prediction, which is necessary to overcome the limitation of our own human reaction time.
Let say your driving and need to turn left onto a busy street from a side street with no light. You finally observe an opening in traffic big enough to make the turn, so you go. Suddenly you get t-boned ... wait a minute, that's not how it works? You're perception and experience from every day tasks allow you to make judgments in situations that arise. You wouldn't have made that turn if you knew that you couldn't make it safely; unless of course there was some outside influence. What kind of world would it be if we couldn't rely on what we perceived in front of us?
I look at the situation in this game the same way. The objective of this game relies on your ability to clear object resistance. But if the object isn't displayed how it should be, then what do we have to go with? Ignore the objects and go for the objective? That isn't a viable solution 95% of the time ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2028157:date=Nov 18 2012, 01:29 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 18 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028157"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not so much as lerk, but other lifeforms and even marines. <b>I often get hit by my target when on my screen he's looking in the opposite direction of me</b>.
This isn't a HUGE deal, I know that on his screen he's actually shooting me, and maybe I'm in a totally different place... but it's at the point where it's destructive to my ability to interact with him. I'm interacting with a dumb technological copy. Not the other player. You can't ever really say to yourself "oh, he's looking the other way, so I'm safe".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had this happen to me in my first scrim the other day... I thought I was just playing poorly and making excuses for myself.. now I feel a little better lol.
<!--quoteo(post=2028223:date=Nov 18 2012, 11:56 PM:name=NSDigi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NSDigi @ Nov 18 2012, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This quote was taken from another <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124752" target="_blank">hit detection tread</a>, but is spot on to this discussion ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is what I've been referring to with broken lag compensation. Why display the model where it is, if it really is not there and you're not going to give me the shot? Furthermore, show me blood and give me reason that my shot trajectory is correct ...
A lot of people rely on what they see to interact with the world around them, this is no different in a video game. It also follows heavily upon the technique of player movement and shot prediction, which is necessary to overcome the limitation of our own human reaction time.
Let say your driving and need to turn left onto a busy street from a side street with no light. You finally observe an opening in traffic big enough to make the turn, so you go. Suddenly you get t-boned ... wait a minute, that's not how it works? You're perception and experience from every day tasks allow you to make judgments in situations that arise. You wouldn't have made that turn if you knew that you couldn't make it safely; unless of course there was some outside influence. What kind of world would it be if we couldn't rely on what we perceived in front of us?
I look at the situation in this game the same way. The objective of this game relies on your ability to clear object resistance. But if the object isn't displayed how it should be, then what do we have to go with? Ignore the objects and go for the objective? That isn't a viable solution 95% of the time ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no way to make a multiplayer world consistent for all participants unless they're sitting in the same building. It's just physically impossible. The notion that you're all playing the same game and seeing the same things is an illusion. It's similar, but not the same.
<!--quoteo(post=2028236:date=Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is no way to make a multiplayer world consistent for all participants unless they're sitting in the same building ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Yes there is, no lag compensation creates consistency with the bases you have minimal jitter.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2028236:date=Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... The notion that you're all playing the same game and seeing the same things is an illusion. It's similar, but not the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is assumed, and is a property of multiple I/O environments sharing a common ground.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I've recorded some video proof regarding this <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124826" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124826</a>
No lag compensation can mean either: you see what the server sees so everything is really jittery and doesn't run at your framerate, or you need to shoot ahead or behind of everything as your shots will have a delay to them because client-side models will be delayed to what the server sees.
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->No lag compensation means you see what should be seen. The only negative effect of it, is that with higher latency you have to lead your shots. Which, to me, is perfectly fine; with everything consistent and hit reg spot on I'll take that any day!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=2024922:date=Nov 15 2012, 08:32 PM:name=Guspaz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guspaz @ Nov 15 2012, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2024922"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting that Quake 3 was mentioned. Q3 was one of the last "legacy" games that did hit detection naively and server-side. When a "fire" command came in, it did the hit detection against its (the server's) perception of the game world, and that was what counted. This perception was, of course, different from either player, since the firing player thought the target was a behind where the server thought, and the target themselves thought they were ahead of where the server thought.
There was a mod to correct this, Unlagged (http://www.ra.is/unlagged/). It modernized the Quake 3 netcode in many ways, and I believe it predated the implementation of latency correction in most other games. It did what has been described in previous posts in this thread; it rolled back player positions based on the firing player's latency, and THEN did the hit detection.
I was involved a bit in the testing of the mod, and I remember having discussions with the author about latency correction on projectile weapons. Hitscan weapons (instant-hit basically) is easy, but what about when you fire a very rapidly moving projectile like a rocket? The author stuck latency correction for this into a later build, and we tried it out, but there was a notable side effect; the rocket's path was dependent on the starting position of the player firing it, so the normal latency correction approach didn't work; every other player would see the rocket moving on a different path/direction than the firing player and server would.
The end solution was to start the rocket, in everybody else's perspective, from where it was when the other players "found out" about the rocket. In other words, if I fired a rocket, you would see it appear multiple feet in FRONT of me, rather than appearing at the mouth of my rocket launcher. It was not a great solution, but it was the only one that seemed to work.
I'd actually be interested to know how modern game engines like Spark handle the fast-moving-non-hitscan-projectile problem.
EDIT: It looks like later versions of unlagged went with a hybrid approach where he basically bypassed the 50ms of interpolation in certain cases for missiles, letting him get away with up to 50ms of "side-effect free" latency correction on missiles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting.
In my opinion the best netcode of any game is Quake 3 promode. Everything hits and no "around the corner hits". The netcode is very solid up to 100ms of client ping.
In my opinion the best netcode of any game is Quake 3 promode. Everything hits and no "around the corner hits". The netcode is very solid up to 100ms of client ping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm really curious how CPMA netcode works, actually. it's quite amazing, but even arQon has described it as "hacked together" or something along those lines :P
<!--quoteo(post=2028138:date=Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM:name=NSDigi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NSDigi @ Nov 18 2012, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->These tests are taken from their core stations which forwards ALL traffic; my latency follows this report pretty closely, I have Comcast as well. You may want to consider switching ISPs if your latency is that bad. Just to emphasize, the report is an average.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tell me what it's like in the magical land where you have a choice among ISPs! I imagine it's like Valhalla for nerds. I cannot wait for the promised land.
<!--quoteo(post=2029730:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:12 AM:name=minos_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minos_ @ Nov 20 2012, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029730"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tell me what it's like in the magical land where you have a choice among ISPs! I imagine it's like Valhalla for nerds. I cannot wait for the promised land.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Here in the Midwest I can think of 3 just on the top of my head, there are even more for Business.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
I know that UWE has addressed the replay system lacking features, but have they addressed the fact that it literally doesn't work at all?
1) you can't view a demo if it was recorded in a different resolution
2) if I put my graphics settings to high it moves in complete slow motion because it just doesn't run
3) if I try to watch it on the *same* settings that I recorded it, it still skips and lags<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's a replay feature? I thought they were pushing that back to well after release. Good on them for getting something out. It's a challenging feature.
Not so much as lerk, but other lifeforms and even marines. I often get hit by my target when on my screen he's looking in the opposite direction of me.
This isn't a HUGE deal, I know that on his screen he's actually shooting me, and maybe I'm in a totally different place... but it's at the point where it's destructive to my ability to interact with him. I'm interacting with a dumb technological copy. Not the other player. You can't ever really say to yourself "oh, he's looking the other way, so I'm safe".
As I understand it this is kind of the way it works. It's doing this, but there's some other weird stuff going on as well.
Even standing in front of an RT with a shotgun unloading rounds into it sometimes 80% of the pellets just choose to miss. But I do know that you don't need to lead your shots or anything like that, so at least the majority of your hit reg is client side.
I think the main problem is that the large majority of players out there today have never played without lag compensation. They have nothing to compare their experiences with.
NS1 had some issues when it launched, but nothing near what NS2 is suffering from.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The server is 100% responsible for the hitreg, would be open for exploitation if the client side was responsible to tell the server it hit something.
Even standing in front of an RT with a shotgun unloading rounds into it sometimes 80% of the pellets just choose to miss. But I do know that you don't need to lead your shots or anything like that, so at least the majority of your hit reg is client side.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's because of a bug - when you shoot structures they "flail" around and so does their hitbox, but it doesn't match up at all it just swings wildly
the only safe place to shoot an RT is at the base
Assuming this is the lag compensation, but not 100% sure since there are quite a few factors at work. Whatever it is, it is annoying as **** and incredibly frustrating and rage inducing when it happens repeatedly.
Assuming this is the lag compensation, but not 100% sure since there are quite a few factors at work. Whatever it is, it is annoying as **** and incredibly frustrating and rage inducing when it happens repeatedly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were spectating or you were the shooter? Spectators have a visual perception of lag compensation as well. You can kind of think of it as bullets hit you, but you only feel it (and bleed) 1 second later.
<!--quoteo(post=2028145:date=Nov 18 2012, 03:08 PM:name=sumguy720)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sumguy720 @ Nov 18 2012, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... before I saw this thread I was under the suspicion that my on-target shots weren't being registered as hits. I noticed this mostly with the pistol and rifle.
This has been frustrating especially in instances where many marines (3-5) are attacked by a single skulk, and it takes a full clip or two from every member to finally take it down ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is what I've been referring to with broken lag compensation. Why display the model where it is, if it really is not there and you're not going to give me the shot? Furthermore, show me blood and give me reason that my shot trajectory is correct ...
A lot of people rely on what they see to interact with the world around them, this is no different in a video game. It also follows heavily upon the technique of player movement and shot prediction, which is necessary to overcome the limitation of our own human reaction time.
Let say your driving and need to turn left onto a busy street from a side street with no light. You finally observe an opening in traffic big enough to make the turn, so you go. Suddenly you get t-boned ... wait a minute, that's not how it works? You're perception and experience from every day tasks allow you to make judgments in situations that arise. You wouldn't have made that turn if you knew that you couldn't make it safely; unless of course there was some outside influence. What kind of world would it be if we couldn't rely on what we perceived in front of us?
I look at the situation in this game the same way. The objective of this game relies on your ability to clear object resistance. But if the object isn't displayed how it should be, then what do we have to go with? Ignore the objects and go for the objective? That isn't a viable solution 95% of the time ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
This isn't a HUGE deal, I know that on his screen he's actually shooting me, and maybe I'm in a totally different place... but it's at the point where it's destructive to my ability to interact with him. I'm interacting with a dumb technological copy. Not the other player. You can't ever really say to yourself "oh, he's looking the other way, so I'm safe".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had this happen to me in my first scrim the other day... I thought I was just playing poorly and making excuses for myself.. now I feel a little better lol.
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is what I've been referring to with broken lag compensation. Why display the model where it is, if it really is not there and you're not going to give me the shot? Furthermore, show me blood and give me reason that my shot trajectory is correct ...
A lot of people rely on what they see to interact with the world around them, this is no different in a video game. It also follows heavily upon the technique of player movement and shot prediction, which is necessary to overcome the limitation of our own human reaction time.
Let say your driving and need to turn left onto a busy street from a side street with no light. You finally observe an opening in traffic big enough to make the turn, so you go. Suddenly you get t-boned ... wait a minute, that's not how it works? You're perception and experience from every day tasks allow you to make judgments in situations that arise. You wouldn't have made that turn if you knew that you couldn't make it safely; unless of course there was some outside influence. What kind of world would it be if we couldn't rely on what we perceived in front of us?
I look at the situation in this game the same way. The objective of this game relies on your ability to clear object resistance. But if the object isn't displayed how it should be, then what do we have to go with? Ignore the objects and go for the objective? That isn't a viable solution 95% of the time ...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no way to make a multiplayer world consistent for all participants unless they're sitting in the same building. It's just physically impossible. The notion that you're all playing the same game and seeing the same things is an illusion. It's similar, but not the same.
<!--quoteo(post=2028236:date=Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Nov 18 2012, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2028236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... The notion that you're all playing the same game and seeing the same things is an illusion. It's similar, but not the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->This is assumed, and is a property of multiple I/O environments sharing a common ground.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
There was a mod to correct this, Unlagged (http://www.ra.is/unlagged/). It modernized the Quake 3 netcode in many ways, and I believe it predated the implementation of latency correction in most other games. It did what has been described in previous posts in this thread; it rolled back player positions based on the firing player's latency, and THEN did the hit detection.
I was involved a bit in the testing of the mod, and I remember having discussions with the author about latency correction on projectile weapons. Hitscan weapons (instant-hit basically) is easy, but what about when you fire a very rapidly moving projectile like a rocket? The author stuck latency correction for this into a later build, and we tried it out, but there was a notable side effect; the rocket's path was dependent on the starting position of the player firing it, so the normal latency correction approach didn't work; every other player would see the rocket moving on a different path/direction than the firing player and server would.
The end solution was to start the rocket, in everybody else's perspective, from where it was when the other players "found out" about the rocket. In other words, if I fired a rocket, you would see it appear multiple feet in FRONT of me, rather than appearing at the mouth of my rocket launcher. It was not a great solution, but it was the only one that seemed to work.
I'd actually be interested to know how modern game engines like Spark handle the fast-moving-non-hitscan-projectile problem.
EDIT: It looks like later versions of unlagged went with a hybrid approach where he basically bypassed the 50ms of interpolation in certain cases for missiles, letting him get away with up to 50ms of "side-effect free" latency correction on missiles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting.
In my opinion the best netcode of any game is Quake 3 promode. Everything hits and no "around the corner hits". The netcode is very solid up to 100ms of client ping.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124924" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=124924</a><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
In my opinion the best netcode of any game is Quake 3 promode. Everything hits and no "around the corner hits". The netcode is very solid up to 100ms of client ping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really curious how CPMA netcode works, actually. it's quite amazing, but even arQon has described it as "hacked together" or something along those lines :P
Tell me what it's like in the magical land where you have a choice among ISPs! I imagine it's like Valhalla for nerds. I cannot wait for the promised land.