There is a problem with the line of thinking I've read in this thread. Onos are not and have never been an intentional counter to Exos. Exos are not a counter to Onos, either. They are tools used to invoke destruction on a base.
You can <i>easily</i> kill an Exo with bile bomb and a couple of skilled skulks. Just don't bum rush him, ambush him and his welder(s) like any other threat and he'll go down quickly. This works with multiple Exos, as well. Just wait for them to get into a crowded space and bile bomb them constantly. You'll be surprised how fast they back off. Two gorges and a couple of skulks can hold back three or four Exos outside of a hive room. I know it sounds crazy, but it's legitimately possible and not that difficult. Bile bombs have an arc, use that to stay hidden while you puke. Meanwhile skulks should try to make the welders back off. Either you kill the Exos, or they are forced to retreat. An Onos is really helpful, but something that valuable should not be facing off against an Exo if you can avoid it. Send his ass to their base to do what they do best.
Edit:
<!--quoteo(post=2030604:date=Nov 21 2012, 12:15 AM:name=AnimeLOL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AnimeLOL @ Nov 21 2012, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Listen to the people that made NS1 a great, balanced game: bring back bunnyhop and make skulks smaller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If bunny hopping is put into this game, I will ask for my money back. Seriously. It's the worst unintentional mechanic ever. It'd be like if they added sniper rifles and allowed for quick scoping and head shots. Not exactly in the spirit of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2030811:date=Nov 20 2012, 06:23 PM:name=Radiocage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Radiocage @ Nov 20 2012, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If bunny hopping is put into this game, I will ask for my money back. Seriously. It's the worst unintentional mechanic ever. It'd be like if they added sniper rifles and allowed for quick scoping and head shots. Not exactly in the spirit of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is definitely a discussion for another thread but the B231 thread is up so I'm curious why you think bunnyhopping is "the worst unintentional mechanic"
goldsrc bunnyhopping seems to be one of the most perfectly balanced movement mechanics I've seen in any game
it's been tried and tested in dozens of games to be:
1) skill based 2) easy to learn, difficult to master: you can always get closer to the "sweet spot" but you can't execute a perfect circlejump every time 3) slightly balanced by having you look away from your destination 4) adds an entire layer of depth to the game entirely, allowing players who are worse at aim to compensate by being good at movement and vice versa
currently NS2 walljumping is 1) not skill based 2) awkward to learn, nothing to master 3) no depth
it's pretty difficult to defend the current system, and I don't see how NS2 can grow at all without skill-based mechanics (in general, not just movement)
bhopping defined NS1. Saying bhop doesn't belong in Natural Selection is like saying buildings don't belong in Sim City. But then again here is NS2 with possibly the worst "skill based movement mechanic" if you can call it that; that I've ever seen called walljump, or at least any implementation of it that has ever been conceived up until this point. May we all learn from our mistakes to forge a better future.
I agree with the marines been more player friendly than the aliens. I didnt have any problem with aliens starting out, but I have seen and corrected more than a handful of newbie skulks chewing on empty power nodes, lol.
I enjoy this patch, marines win a little bit more now. Can't say I agree with the "regen capped at 10 per second" though.
<!--quoteo(post=2030763:date=Nov 21 2012, 01:53 PM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xtcmen @ Nov 21 2012, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there a new patch? Just updated<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 19.8MB worth of something for me, after I had finished downloading and had played 230...
<!--quoteo(post=2029636:date=Nov 20 2012, 12:57 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 20 2012, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course it can. Public games represent 99% of games played. Why would you balance the game around the '1%' ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cause its like a week after release and the vast majority of players are still new and inexperienced which is bound to make the statistics rather screwy. This is no longer late beta, give it a month and pub stats would once again be valid for balance purposes imo.
Also even I (someone who was never good at bhopping) will admit that ns1 movement was vastly superior to the current mechanics in ns2.
<!--quoteo(post=2031044:date=Nov 21 2012, 12:39 PM:name=Mullvaden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mullvaden @ Nov 21 2012, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031044"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Explore mode is broken in the latest build
[Server] Script Error #1: lua/ExploreServer.lua:38: attempt to index global 'AmbientSound' (a nil value) Call stack: #1: GetCreateEntityOnStart lua/ExploreServer.lua:38 #2: LoadServerMapEntity lua/Server.lua:186 #3: lua/Server.lua:345<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah i tried to explore mode on 231 and it loaded the map but then only showed a black screen and the number of the build. I tried to do "rr" and it only said "player: nil". Then i wanted to exit but the menu wouldnt show up... Result: frozen game.
Early onos was bad, but a third hive requirment for onos egg is a terrible decision IMHO. If aliens get locked up with 2 hives and cannot push marines out of it with fades, they are going to have a bad time. Alien have less chance of comebacks.
Played lots of games on the new build yesterday, my view on the patch is:
- Fade is too easy to shotgun by the time you get 50 p.res. Instead of buffing I would like to see the cost reduced to 40/45, making the decision to wait for Onos tougher and shadow-step only fades more worth the risk.
- Mineshaft extractor placement is now horrible for aliens starting in cave if marines start at repair.
- On 20+ slot servers, limited eggs forces shift to be the first choice most of the time. Either eggs need to scale better with the number of players, or extra eggs need to be a hive ability as well.
- Good job on the server list counter, the changes are overall were an improvement to balance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT FOR ALL THE PEOPLE COMMENTING WITHOUT PLAYING 3 HIVE LIMIT IS ONLY FOR COMMANDER DROPPED ONOS YES, ONOS NOW REQUIRES TEAMWORK TO KILL A BASE -----------------------------------------------------------------------
<!--quoteo(post=2031111:date=Nov 21 2012, 10:05 AM:name=ItAx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ItAx @ Nov 21 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Early onos was bad, but a third hive requirment for onos egg is a terrible decision IMHO. If aliens get locked up with 2 hives and cannot push marines out of it with fades, they are going to have a bad time. Alien have less chance of comebacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just save your PRes, I don't understand the problem. If you can't get enough res then you're doing poorly and should lose.
<!--quoteo(post=2031211:date=Nov 21 2012, 03:56 PM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Nov 21 2012, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->onos mega nerf aka we will never see onos's again on veil (and all other 4 tec maps)...
- 3hives req. - longer hive buildtime - less armor
well kharaa prepare to get raped by exos (+10 armor)
i bet UWE did it for the LULZ - horrible balacing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you clearly haven't played more than a few hours of NS2... otherwise you'd know that you can buy an onos at 1 hive if you have 75 pres.
<!--quoteo(post=2031224:date=Nov 21 2012, 05:06 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 21 2012, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you clearly haven't played more than a few hours of NS2... otherwise you'd know that you can buy an onos at 1 hive if you have 75 pres.
busted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you clearly havent played any gather or other kind of competitive rounds in ns2. Ull never reach 75 pres in this games as aliens.
A LOT of fun this build, however hitreg just seems off on the shotgun, or the shotgun is too random. Something about it just feels stupid.
Only changes i'd make:
Fade: Slightly increase HP and armor (i'm talking like 40 total effective hp and 70 w/cara or something), REMOVE vortex, return high damage double swing but increase the swing speed to like a 2 second windup usable while jumping/midair (Look at that fade is perfectly viable late game)
Lerk: Make spores have larger AoE, reduce gas research cost to 15 res
Onos: I think Onos is perfect other than IMO stomp is worse for player control than devour
Shotgun: Same DMG, larger spread, reward close up shots
Skulk: Xenocide is awful, give it a real purpose cuz with no res while dead it's currently god awful
Grenade Launcher: Shoot faster and more responsively, grenades fizzle when landing near allies
SCORE SYSTEM REVAMP: Seriously, just make it not so bad lol, give people points for everything
<!--quoteo(post=2031243:date=Nov 21 2012, 05:19 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Nov 21 2012, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You both talking of completely different topics. (comp games and pub games)
busted!!! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah obv... but how the ###### do u want to balance pubs? most of pub players are garbage. "better" balance wouldnt have any impact at all.
Measuring pub balance with anecdotal evidence is very difficult because pub games are often decided by an overwhelming skill gap. Balance is important though in that it decides the outcome of games that are evenly matched. Say 50% of pub games are reasonably fair - if balance problems cause aliens to win 75% of evenly matched games, that means you'll see a 62.5% total alien winrate, which in the grand scheme of things becomes a very noticeable trend.
<!--quoteo(post=2031221:date=Nov 21 2012, 07:05 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 21 2012, 07:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031221"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just save your PRes, I don't understand the problem. If you can't get enough res then you're doing poorly and should lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not that easy to get PRes in maps like veil especially when marines are always pushing with phasegates and aliens can't secure more than 2 resnodes
<!--quoteo(post=2031542:date=Nov 21 2012, 04:34 PM:name=ItAx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ItAx @ Nov 21 2012, 04:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not that easy to get PRes in maps like veil especially when marines are always pushing with phasegates and aliens can't secure more than 2 resnodes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If so then that's a balance problem that should reveal itself shortly now the the TRes Onos crutch is gone. If it was mandatory for aliens to succeed then all the more reason to remove it from the equation IMO so the game can be balanced correctly.
The Vault KeyJoin Date: 2012-11-11Member: 169550Members
edited November 2012
Copied my own post from my thread where no one answered.
"Hello community ! I come here to ask you one simple question - did the 230 build patch ruin your gaming experience in NS2 because of INSANE frames per second drop ? I was getting around 60-70 FPS in the main menu before 230 patch, similar FPS at the beginning of the game whether I was playing aliens or marines, now it's like 30-40 FPS in menu and the same in-game.
Did you notice any changes in your NS2 performance ? It's not like 30-40 FPS is low, I would say it's allright but ... yeah, but it's just annoying and unpleasant for the eye and not smooth at all. - TvK "
Not to mention that while in fight the game stutters and FPS is around 20 ... I cannot play, is there anyone with the same issue ?
<!--quoteo(post=2031237:date=Nov 21 2012, 04:17 PM:name=StreifenHirnchen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StreifenHirnchen @ Nov 21 2012, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031237"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you clearly havent played any gather or other kind of competitive rounds in ns2. Ull never reach 75 pres in this games as aliens.
busted!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if the commander can save 75 for onos egg, he can save 50 for a fade egg or 30 for a lerk egg.
fade or lerk egg = player does not need to buy fade or lerk = player has +30-50 pres = faster onos.
extinct... nah, just delayed by a bit.
edit: do you seriously play gathers? seem far too whiney to be a comp player.
Since 230 my game crashes randomly anywhere between 1min to 40+min, i've sent crash reports but i can't tell what's the cause. once it happened when i spawed from an egg, once in the middle of comming, once in ready room, once in midst of battle, once when just traversing. different maps. But my game has been stable and running on pretty much okay fps since the great boost before 1.0. I find it strange.
Also, liking the new server counter that shows you how big the scene is getting. What i don't like that since 230 my server browser is completely empty and i'm unable to join servers since there nothing to click join on.... so out of 730ish servers it proudly counts, i get 0 popping up. I'm stuck to joining with my friends through steam. tough luck if none of them are online. I did however find an ns2 server browser thingy on the net which i could try, but i don't think i should be forced to use 3rd party stuff just to be able to play the game.
When finally on servers however, i'm liking the onos on 3rd hive and the new camo as of lately, regen was a bit crazy but i guess some changes came to that again.
also we've been scrimming a bit 6v6 against much tougher opponents than us, and no 7min onos actually made us stay in the game longer and wasn't necessarily an instant GG at about 7min each time they played aliens.. more fun, more time to learn how not to get beaten :D
Please don't make super big changes until ENSL league season 1 is over, time your content patches also with the comp scene. A healthy competitive scene is also a longer lasting pub scene, they go alot hand in hand imo.. after these comp leagues it's also easier to see what you see alot of and what should be encouraged/discouraged buffed/nerfed.
I'm very excited about the future of ns2 and all the new strategies an varieties that'll pop up once the game finds it's optimal balance. bored of seeing only the top 3 clans and only 1 viable strategy over and over again. I wanna see exiting matchups at lower skill-levels too :) it's still just as fun to watch and sometimes even more entertaining !
I like this build for a lot of reasons. I know that Marines had a very difficult time pinning down Fades, and the initial energy cost increase will make this a little easier to deal with. The nerfs on crags was kinda necessary, as it was difficult for Marines to respond to gradual pushes with crags/shades and advanced lifeforms, especially onos, where you could just keep ducking in and out, applying massive pressure.
What I don't like is that it doesn't really address the issues of skulks dropping off so much towards the end game. Most people spend 80% of the game as a skulk, pres is hard to come by alien-side and if you get unlucky or make just one poor decision, a well placed shotgun shell can send you spiraling right back to playing a skulk for the next 5+ minutes because aliens rarely hold more than 3 harvesters in an even game. Something needs to be done to allow the skulks to have more presence in the game. As it stands unless the aliens can maintain several higher lifeforms, they will more than likely lose, and with this patch that has become more difficult due to the unrealistic 3-hive requirement for onos eggs.
I love asymmetrical gameplay, it's the #1 thing I love about NS2, which is why I don't propose giving Aliens Weapons/Armor 1-3 or something like that. But Skulks do need some means of scaling. Carapace does not give them very much health, even with celerity random Marine spraying has a 50/50 chance of just grazing you which will generally lead to death, which shows just how flimsy a skulk really is. As it stands it takes a lot of effort to play a skulk effectively, whereas Marines do not require much more commitment than hopping around, shooting at their feet or the walls. Let's review any skulk-marine scenario that takes place, be it 1v1 or group vs group.
The Skulk: -Has to be able to utilize wall jumping to it's upmost ability -Has to be able to maintain it's equilibrium which becomes pretty difficult when you're hopping around everywhere, even with strategic bites. -Has to land at least 2-3 bites vs A0 Marines, this does not count glancing blows or medkit drops, raising the requirement to several or more bites. -More often than not has to ambush the Marines and utilize hit and run tactics rather than direct assaults.
Marines: -Stay relatively spread out without losing LoS of eachother. -Spraying at eachothers' feet is far too effective, really. -Place mines as you push, any attempts at coming up behind the Marine line will generally result in a skulk getting gibbed without Marines even looking at him. -When in doubt, use a shotgun. Skulk's effective range is actually closer than the shotgun's range to oneshot, even with W0 and carapace.
The biggest factor for Marines right now is the Commander. A good commander will make or break a Marine team, which is probably why we see Marines hurting on the win/loss ratios. With attentive medkit drops, sentry pushes, strategic armories, general knowledge on what upgrades are needed first, Marines have a pretty laid back time as they phasegate and jetpack around all over the place. This could come in the form of the Alien Commander being able to drop "improved" skulk eggs at the cost of Tres, or merely allowing Aliens to spawn a stronger skulk at the cost of Pres.
I personally have more fun playing a skulk than any other lifeform, but it's so frustrating when I'm whipping out the awesome wall-jumping skills, performing the 1337 hit, run, hide around a corner, and ambush as they come after me, thinking I'm still running away...Only to eat 6(?) rifle rounds or a shotgun shell and be back to embryo-square-one. All the work Skulks put in to beat Marines and it barely measures up to spray&pray leaves me headbutting holes into my wall because I can't figured out for the life of me how flailing around with the Mouse 1 held down manages to out-perform my concentrated efforts to not get shot in the face.
<!--quoteo(post=2029636:date=Nov 19 2012, 11:57 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Nov 19 2012, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2029636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of course it can. Public games represent 99% of games played. Why would you balance the game around the '1%' ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the problem.. if the 99% meant only the most popular, trending, and superficial strategies, then count me out. More tactfully, if balance is based upon the most accessible mechanics of the game, then you're going to end up with a bland result.
I dont know if that is a regular bug or just happened accidentally, but i tried explo mode today, played around a little bit with the alien commander, then switched sides and went into the marine commanders place to figure out i couldnt build anything because i could only build on infestation =/ ?!?!
Btw. the explo mode is useless to figure out how the game works imho, because alone you basically can do nothing. As marine at least you can leave your seat and build what you want, but as alien you have the out of range problem. And your updates all are unlocked, so you wont get any idea of how that commander position really works.
And, the great alien commander tutorial video actually is no tutorial - its a gameplay video. You could learn by watching but when being called tutorial it would be nice to get some instructions there as well and not just watch gameplay of others ;D
Comments
You can <i>easily</i> kill an Exo with bile bomb and a couple of skilled skulks. Just don't bum rush him, ambush him and his welder(s) like any other threat and he'll go down quickly. This works with multiple Exos, as well. Just wait for them to get into a crowded space and bile bomb them constantly. You'll be surprised how fast they back off. Two gorges and a couple of skulks can hold back three or four Exos outside of a hive room. I know it sounds crazy, but it's legitimately possible and not that difficult. Bile bombs have an arc, use that to stay hidden while you puke. Meanwhile skulks should try to make the welders back off. Either you kill the Exos, or they are forced to retreat. An Onos is really helpful, but something that valuable should not be facing off against an Exo if you can avoid it. Send his ass to their base to do what they do best.
Edit:
<!--quoteo(post=2030604:date=Nov 21 2012, 12:15 AM:name=AnimeLOL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AnimeLOL @ Nov 21 2012, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2030604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Listen to the people that made NS1 a great, balanced game: bring back bunnyhop and make skulks smaller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If bunny hopping is put into this game, I will ask for my money back. Seriously. It's the worst unintentional mechanic ever. It'd be like if they added sniper rifles and allowed for quick scoping and head shots. Not exactly in the spirit of the game.
this is definitely a discussion for another thread but the B231 thread is up so I'm curious why you think bunnyhopping is "the worst unintentional mechanic"
goldsrc bunnyhopping seems to be one of the most perfectly balanced movement mechanics I've seen in any game
it's been tried and tested in dozens of games to be:
1) skill based
2) easy to learn, difficult to master: you can always get closer to the "sweet spot" but you can't execute a perfect circlejump every time
3) slightly balanced by having you look away from your destination
4) adds an entire layer of depth to the game entirely, allowing players who are worse at aim to compensate by being good at movement and vice versa
currently NS2 walljumping is
1) not skill based
2) awkward to learn, nothing to master
3) no depth
it's pretty difficult to defend the current system, and I don't see how NS2 can grow at all without skill-based mechanics (in general, not just movement)
I enjoy this patch, marines win a little bit more now. Can't say I agree with the "regen capped at 10 per second" though.
19.8MB worth of something for me, after I had finished downloading and had played 230...
Cause its like a week after release and the vast majority of players are still new and inexperienced which is bound to make the statistics rather screwy. This is no longer late beta, give it a month and pub stats would once again be valid for balance purposes imo.
Also even I (someone who was never good at bhopping) will admit that ns1 movement was vastly superior to the current mechanics in ns2.
[Server] Script Error #1: lua/ExploreServer.lua:38: attempt to index global 'AmbientSound' (a nil value)
Call stack:
#1: GetCreateEntityOnStart lua/ExploreServer.lua:38
#2: LoadServerMapEntity lua/Server.lua:186
#3: lua/Server.lua:345
[Server] Script Error #1: lua/ExploreServer.lua:38: attempt to index global 'AmbientSound' (a nil value)
Call stack:
#1: GetCreateEntityOnStart lua/ExploreServer.lua:38
#2: LoadServerMapEntity lua/Server.lua:186
#3: lua/Server.lua:345<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah i tried to explore mode on 231 and it loaded the map but then only showed a black screen and the number of the build. I tried to do "rr" and it only said "player: nil". Then i wanted to exit but the menu wouldnt show up... Result: frozen game.
[Server] Script Error #1: lua/ExploreServer.lua:38: attempt to index global 'AmbientSound' (a nil value)
Call stack:
#1: GetCreateEntityOnStart lua/ExploreServer.lua:38
#2: LoadServerMapEntity lua/Server.lua:186
#3: lua/Server.lua:345<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah it hasn't been working for me since 230.
If aliens get locked up with 2 hives and cannot push marines out of it with fades, they are going to have a bad time.
Alien have less chance of comebacks.
- 3hives req.
- longer hive buildtime
- less armor
well kharaa prepare to get raped by exos (+10 armor)
i bet UWE did it for the LULZ - horrible balacing
- Fade is too easy to shotgun by the time you get 50 p.res. Instead of buffing I would like to see the cost reduced to 40/45, making the decision to wait for Onos tougher and shadow-step only fades more worth the risk.
- Mineshaft extractor placement is now horrible for aliens starting in cave if marines start at repair.
- On 20+ slot servers, limited eggs forces shift to be the first choice most of the time. Either eggs need to scale better with the number of players, or extra eggs need to be a hive ability as well.
- Good job on the server list counter, the changes are overall were an improvement to balance.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT FOR ALL THE PEOPLE COMMENTING WITHOUT PLAYING
3 HIVE LIMIT IS ONLY FOR COMMANDER DROPPED ONOS
YES, ONOS NOW REQUIRES TEAMWORK TO KILL A BASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If aliens get locked up with 2 hives and cannot push marines out of it with fades, they are going to have a bad time.
Alien have less chance of comebacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just save your PRes, I don't understand the problem. If you can't get enough res then you're doing poorly and should lose.
- 3hives req.
- longer hive buildtime
- less armor
well kharaa prepare to get raped by exos (+10 armor)
i bet UWE did it for the LULZ - horrible balacing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you clearly haven't played more than a few hours of NS2... otherwise you'd know that you can buy an onos at 1 hive if you have 75 pres.
busted.
busted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you clearly havent played any gather or other kind of competitive rounds in ns2. Ull never reach 75 pres in this games as aliens.
busted!
Only changes i'd make:
Fade: Slightly increase HP and armor (i'm talking like 40 total effective hp and 70 w/cara or something), REMOVE vortex, return high damage double swing but increase the swing speed to like a 2 second windup usable while jumping/midair (Look at that fade is perfectly viable late game)
Lerk: Make spores have larger AoE, reduce gas research cost to 15 res
Onos: I think Onos is perfect other than IMO stomp is worse for player control than devour
Shotgun: Same DMG, larger spread, reward close up shots
Skulk: Xenocide is awful, give it a real purpose cuz with no res while dead it's currently god awful
Grenade Launcher: Shoot faster and more responsively, grenades fizzle when landing near allies
SCORE SYSTEM REVAMP: Seriously, just make it not so bad lol, give people points for everything
busted!!! :D
busted!!! :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah obv... but how the ###### do u want to balance pubs? most of pub players are garbage. "better" balance wouldnt have any impact at all.
It's not that easy to get PRes in maps like veil especially when marines are always pushing with phasegates and aliens can't secure more than 2 resnodes
If so then that's a balance problem that should reveal itself shortly now the the TRes Onos crutch is gone. If it was mandatory for aliens to succeed then all the more reason to remove it from the equation IMO so the game can be balanced correctly.
"Hello community !
I come here to ask you one simple question - did the 230 build patch ruin your gaming experience in NS2 because of INSANE frames per second drop ?
I was getting around 60-70 FPS in the main menu before 230 patch, similar FPS at the beginning of the game whether I was playing aliens or marines, now it's like 30-40 FPS in menu and the same in-game.
Did you notice any changes in your NS2 performance ?
It's not like 30-40 FPS is low, I would say it's allright but ... yeah, but it's just annoying and unpleasant for the eye and not smooth at all.
- TvK "
Not to mention that while in fight the game stutters and FPS is around 20 ... I cannot play, is there anyone with the same issue ?
busted!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if the commander can save 75 for onos egg, he can save 50 for a fade egg or 30 for a lerk egg.
fade or lerk egg = player does not need to buy fade or lerk = player has +30-50 pres = faster onos.
extinct... nah, just delayed by a bit.
edit: do you seriously play gathers? seem far too whiney to be a comp player.
Also, liking the new server counter that shows you how big the scene is getting. What i don't like that since 230 my server browser is completely empty and i'm unable to join servers since there nothing to click join on.... so out of 730ish servers it proudly counts, i get 0 popping up. I'm stuck to joining with my friends through steam. tough luck if none of them are online. I did however find an ns2 server browser thingy on the net which i could try, but i don't think i should be forced to use 3rd party stuff just to be able to play the game.
When finally on servers however, i'm liking the onos on 3rd hive and the new camo as of lately, regen was a bit crazy but i guess some changes came to that again.
also we've been scrimming a bit 6v6 against much tougher opponents than us, and no 7min onos actually made us stay in the game longer and wasn't necessarily an instant GG at about 7min each time they played aliens.. more fun, more time to learn how not to get beaten :D
Please don't make super big changes until ENSL league season 1 is over, time your content patches also with the comp scene. A healthy competitive scene is also a longer lasting pub scene, they go alot hand in hand imo.. after these comp leagues it's also easier to see what you see alot of and what should be encouraged/discouraged buffed/nerfed.
I'm very excited about the future of ns2 and all the new strategies an varieties that'll pop up once the game finds it's optimal balance. bored of seeing only the top 3 clans and only 1 viable strategy over and over again. I wanna see exiting matchups at lower skill-levels too :) it's still just as fun to watch and sometimes even more entertaining !
What I don't like is that it doesn't really address the issues of skulks dropping off so much towards the end game. Most people spend 80% of the game as a skulk, pres is hard to come by alien-side and if you get unlucky or make just one poor decision, a well placed shotgun shell can send you spiraling right back to playing a skulk for the next 5+ minutes because aliens rarely hold more than 3 harvesters in an even game. Something needs to be done to allow the skulks to have more presence in the game. As it stands unless the aliens can maintain several higher lifeforms, they will more than likely lose, and with this patch that has become more difficult due to the unrealistic 3-hive requirement for onos eggs.
I love asymmetrical gameplay, it's the #1 thing I love about NS2, which is why I don't propose giving Aliens Weapons/Armor 1-3 or something like that. But Skulks do need some means of scaling. Carapace does not give them very much health, even with celerity random Marine spraying has a 50/50 chance of just grazing you which will generally lead to death, which shows just how flimsy a skulk really is. As it stands it takes a lot of effort to play a skulk effectively, whereas Marines do not require much more commitment than hopping around, shooting at their feet or the walls. Let's review any skulk-marine scenario that takes place, be it 1v1 or group vs group.
The Skulk:
-Has to be able to utilize wall jumping to it's upmost ability
-Has to be able to maintain it's equilibrium which becomes pretty difficult when you're hopping around everywhere, even with strategic bites.
-Has to land at least 2-3 bites vs A0 Marines, this does not count glancing blows or medkit drops, raising the requirement to several or more bites.
-More often than not has to ambush the Marines and utilize hit and run tactics rather than direct assaults.
Marines:
-Stay relatively spread out without losing LoS of eachother.
-Spraying at eachothers' feet is far too effective, really.
-Place mines as you push, any attempts at coming up behind the Marine line will generally result in a skulk getting gibbed without Marines even looking at him.
-When in doubt, use a shotgun. Skulk's effective range is actually closer than the shotgun's range to oneshot, even with W0 and carapace.
The biggest factor for Marines right now is the Commander. A good commander will make or break a Marine team, which is probably why we see Marines hurting on the win/loss ratios. With attentive medkit drops, sentry pushes, strategic armories, general knowledge on what upgrades are needed first, Marines have a pretty laid back time as they phasegate and jetpack around all over the place. This could come in the form of the Alien Commander being able to drop "improved" skulk eggs at the cost of Tres, or merely allowing Aliens to spawn a stronger skulk at the cost of Pres.
I personally have more fun playing a skulk than any other lifeform, but it's so frustrating when I'm whipping out the awesome wall-jumping skills, performing the 1337 hit, run, hide around a corner, and ambush as they come after me, thinking I'm still running away...Only to eat 6(?) rifle rounds or a shotgun shell and be back to embryo-square-one. All the work Skulks put in to beat Marines and it barely measures up to spray&pray leaves me headbutting holes into my wall because I can't figured out for the life of me how flailing around with the Mouse 1 held down manages to out-perform my concentrated efforts to not get shot in the face.
That's the problem.. if the 99% meant only the most popular, trending, and superficial strategies, then count me out. More tactfully, if balance is based upon the most accessible mechanics of the game, then you're going to end up with a bland result.
Btw. the explo mode is useless to figure out how the game works imho, because alone you basically can do nothing. As marine at least you can leave your seat and build what you want, but as alien you have the out of range problem. And your updates all are unlocked, so you wont get any idea of how that commander position really works.
And, the great alien commander tutorial video actually is no tutorial - its a gameplay video. You could learn by watching but when being called tutorial it would be nice to get some instructions there as well and not just watch gameplay of others ;D