[Suggestion] Reworking the power nodes
Oozi
Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172771Members
Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172771Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Something a bit more tactical and fun</div>Alright, allow me to start of by saying I've not had the chance to play NS2 beta at all, and I've only played the actual release around 20 hours now, so these are very much 'first impressions'.
I see people throwing around a lot of suggestions, and I'm going to add to that with a suggestion of my own.
Power nodes.
They.... aren't very much fun. I like the idea alot, making base defending a bit more challenging for the marine team, justifiably so. However since they're required *everywhere* for *everything* they become more of a chore to maintain. It's a chore to fix them and it's a chore to chomp them. They have so much potential!
I'd like to throw just a few suggestions out there on what I think could make them a bit more fun, tactical and/or have less of an impact
-Give them around 40% less hp and make them build/repair 40% faster. Allow them to be electrified for something like 5 res, resets if killed.
-Resource towers do not require power nodes, but produce 20% more res if power node is active (up to current rate)
-Number of power nodes act as limitation and/or give small bonuses.
*Number of power nodes = Number of MACS
*Power nodes increase research speed by 2,5% / node (slow current research speed to compensate)
*Power nodes regen marine armour (SLOW rate, 5sec pulse = 4armour?)
*Power nodes reduce respawn time (slow current rate by 2-3sec to compensate)
-Power nodes limit available tech builings in the field
*Every obs and phase gate require an active power node
Example: Marines have 2 observatories and 3 phase gates, they have 5 power nodes. They are unable to build more obs or PG:s until they claim another power node. If the aliens destroy 1 power node, distress beacon becomes unavailable and the phase gate FARTHEST away from a command station shuts down. Make obs & PG:s cheaper to compensate.
-Make power nodes accumulate "support" resource similar to normal res. Commander drops (ammo, medkits, scans, nano armour, weapon drops) could use this in place of normal res with a lower exchange ratio.
*Example: Power nodes create support res at the same speed as resource towers. 10 support res = 1 res for commander drops. Increase commander weapon drop price and nano armour price to compensate.
Some of these suggestions, I feel, would really make power nodes more of an asset, more of a tactical tool and a possible tool for the marines, more than just an on/off -switch or extra building you need to chomp 30 (?) times.
These are all a few ideas I came up with in a relatively short time, I'm sure professional game designers can make something more fun than the current power node design. Also note, that all numbers are just from the top of my head, subject to change according to balance etc.
What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance!
-Oozi
I see people throwing around a lot of suggestions, and I'm going to add to that with a suggestion of my own.
Power nodes.
They.... aren't very much fun. I like the idea alot, making base defending a bit more challenging for the marine team, justifiably so. However since they're required *everywhere* for *everything* they become more of a chore to maintain. It's a chore to fix them and it's a chore to chomp them. They have so much potential!
I'd like to throw just a few suggestions out there on what I think could make them a bit more fun, tactical and/or have less of an impact
-Give them around 40% less hp and make them build/repair 40% faster. Allow them to be electrified for something like 5 res, resets if killed.
-Resource towers do not require power nodes, but produce 20% more res if power node is active (up to current rate)
-Number of power nodes act as limitation and/or give small bonuses.
*Number of power nodes = Number of MACS
*Power nodes increase research speed by 2,5% / node (slow current research speed to compensate)
*Power nodes regen marine armour (SLOW rate, 5sec pulse = 4armour?)
*Power nodes reduce respawn time (slow current rate by 2-3sec to compensate)
-Power nodes limit available tech builings in the field
*Every obs and phase gate require an active power node
Example: Marines have 2 observatories and 3 phase gates, they have 5 power nodes. They are unable to build more obs or PG:s until they claim another power node. If the aliens destroy 1 power node, distress beacon becomes unavailable and the phase gate FARTHEST away from a command station shuts down. Make obs & PG:s cheaper to compensate.
-Make power nodes accumulate "support" resource similar to normal res. Commander drops (ammo, medkits, scans, nano armour, weapon drops) could use this in place of normal res with a lower exchange ratio.
*Example: Power nodes create support res at the same speed as resource towers. 10 support res = 1 res for commander drops. Increase commander weapon drop price and nano armour price to compensate.
Some of these suggestions, I feel, would really make power nodes more of an asset, more of a tactical tool and a possible tool for the marines, more than just an on/off -switch or extra building you need to chomp 30 (?) times.
These are all a few ideas I came up with in a relatively short time, I'm sure professional game designers can make something more fun than the current power node design. Also note, that all numbers are just from the top of my head, subject to change according to balance etc.
What do you guys think?
Thanks in advance!
-Oozi
Comments
As for the electrifiing I think it could be done but just for a short time like 5 seconds or did you already meant to say this. Cause I would love it as a way to give marines extra time to go defend it but I wouldn't like it to be an active defense that always stays on.
On the other hand I didn't like the idea of turning the observatory and the phase gates powernode dependant, cause in some way they already are (powernode in their sector). Expanding as it is, is already dificult for the average marine comander, so I wouldn't add that constraint. Especially when the marines on the ground would not be able to understand at a moments notice why their portal stopped working and how they could bring it back online. It would make gameplay too confusing and comunication intensive, which if you've already played is only rarely the case.
Nonetheless you're right by saying that the powernode could be more fun, but I also think that the current chomp and build rate are ok.
Actually, you make an excellent point, and I agree, my suggestion regarding that change wasn't... well thought out.
What I wanted to achieve with that suggestion was to force the marines to control the map before they can teleport around the map.
But yeah, scrap that...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a chore to fix [power nodes] and it's a chore to chomp them"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It may appear that I'm going to go off topic, but I'll bring it back full circle at the end so stay with me.
I do think more education is needed on power nodes. The alien team wastes <i>so</i> much time destroying power for no reason. I cannot count the times I've seen an alien chomping on a power node when it serves no purpose. The above quote makes me wonder if you're one of these players who may be putting a greater importance on power than what is really needed. If chomping power is a chore, then you need more players chomping.
Here's an example I run into almost every day. I will be attacking a marine RT as a lone skulk, another skulk will run by and start attacking the power (again, it sounds like this is you from your original post).
Here's why that's a mistake:
1) Power nodes do not cost the marine team resources. They only cost time. Destroying the RT costs them resources so that should be a priority.
2) Power nodes 'buy' time for the marine team. If one (or two) skulks are attacking a power node the marines have time to react.
3) Power nodes take longer to kill than RT's, so by ignoring the RT, the marines gain extra tricks of income.
4) Attacking a power node leaves a skulk incredibly exposed, attacking a RT provides much greater cover.
So often in this example I see a marine walk by and super-easy-kill the skulk trying to destroy the power. Because the skulk didn't understand the basics of the game, he chewed on something that the marines can replace for free and did no economic damage to the other team. The skulks other option in this example would have been to attack the RT, which dies faster, deals economic damage to the other team, and is easier to hide behind to finish the job.
I don't think the game does a good enough job of explaining the purpose of power. This thread helps confirm that, because you're basically trying to add more 'purpose' to the nodes.
How about this suggestion: Power nodes only exist in rooms with tech points (potential marine starting points). Since marines can't build on infestation I don't see much of a point having power all around the map. They just serve as long distractions for players who don't know better.
I never said anything of the sort, and I'm beginning to feel it is infact you that did not understand the purpose of my post.
However my point is that if you leave power nodes intact you're allowing the marines to very easily rebuild a room.
What reason do you have NOT to destroy a power node if you can?
Personally I'm not looking to add alot of complexity to confuse people, but I'd like to see power nodes enhance the marines, not be a prequisite for their existance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What reason do you have NOT to destroy a power node if you can?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Time is a very important resource in NS2. How do you use your time? How did the enemy use their time?
Ask yourself "what will destroying this power node give our team?" If the answer isn't "victory" or "save our hive" then it's probably a waste of time. Time that is much better spent looking for more RT's to kill, saving your RTs, applying pressure, scouting, etc. Keep in mind, marines cannot build on infestation so if the room is already yours, or will soon be yours, destroying power accomplishes nothing.
How did you feel about my suggestion?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Power nodes only exist in rooms with tech points (potential marine starting points). Since marines can't build on infestation I don't see much of a point having power all around the map. They just serve as long distractions for players who don't know better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I stated originally, I feel repairing and destroying power nodes take too long. If you think otherwise, you're doing it wrong (I can do this too, real simple!).
The reason I feel this way is as follows: If aliens spend x amount of time destroying a power node, it takes the marines x amount of time to fix it, basically meaning neither gained anything. They are switching time performing a simple task that is not, in my opinion, fun.
Sure, there are numerous situations where this is tactical and a very interesting part of the game, such as when both sides are wanting to take control of a room, it is far more interesting to have a point of focus in said fight. To truly control a room both sides need said focus point. This is a part of power nodes I really like.
However, more times than not I've swept the "other side of the map", where action is slow, and go through perhaps even 3 marine RT points. If I leave the power nodes, it's that much easier for them to rebuild. Sometimes I don't have a clear objective to spend my time on, so chomping power points, thus forcing the marines to rebuild them, thus spending time, is an investment in the future which I will gladly trade. Though, often it has no advantage to either side.
Again, I ask, if I have the opportunity to destroy a power node, why would I not?
Again, I ask, if it were possible to minimize a "boring" part of the game, yet still make it functional, why would I not?
I'm not saying "remove power nodes" or "make them super weak", I'm saying that there must be a way to downplay their role as a "time consuming activity that is not enjoyable". I'm throwing suggestions in the air, as I feel people should do.
Regarding your suggestion:
It's one way to go, it would certainly downplay their importance, and remove alot of the "unfun chomping/repairing" I referred to.
However I do feel that there are solutions that would make power nodes more interesting as opposed to making them only a bit less unfun.
Your suggestion, in my opinion, is better than doing nothing.
What I dislike about the current power system is that you can't destroy holograms of power nodes since a few patches ago. The enemy can basically build a node to 99%, then see you coming to take control of the area, thus stop the building process and come back later once they actually gained control over that room to finish the build in an instant. Aliens can't do anything about that 99% node as long as it's not built for the first time, which is just ridiculous.
And aliens shouldn't be forced to stay with fully lit rooms until marines finally build a power node in there once so that aliens can actually take the node out to get the emergency lighting, which is very unlikely for some rooms anyway since marines will likely never build anything there. All rooms without power node should start with emergency lighting until something is built there.
Personally I'd prefer to have completely dark rooms after the destruction of a power node for much longer than 30 seconds, to get some nice creepy atmosphere going, but I can see how some people could dislike that if aliens can't see much in their own base (alien vision is not really nice or useful right now since it discards too much information about lighting in your environment, so you can't tell where marines are pointing their flash lights).
Or have the lighting as the following:
Room with power node = fully lit as it is right now.
Room without power node = dim light.
Room with destroyed power node = red emergency lights.
Room with destroyed power node where the node is fully covered in infestation = completely dark room. (Or alternatively when you have more than 50% of the room covered in infestation, but having it linked to infestation on the node seems more logical to me and makes it also easier to control this condition from both marine and alien side.)
As soon as infestation gets removed from the node, it goes back to red lighting. But this way aliens could create a little home advantage in rooms they control.
Huh? I'd be doing it correctly because when I attack power it's with 5 other players and we get it down in 2 seconds. It's not long at all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sometimes I don't have a clear objective to spend my time on, so chomping power points, thus forcing the marines to rebuild them, thus spending time, is an investment in the future which I will gladly trade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are that lone player that chomps on nodes. That's fine; you're in the majority from what I can see and that's exactly the problem. I did list several suggestions on how to better use your time -- check them out. (they're quoted below)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, I ask, if I have the opportunity to destroy a power node, why would I not?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read my prior posts? I provided many reasons...
<!--QuoteBegin-"sentrysteve"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("sentrysteve")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) Power nodes do not cost the marine team resources. They only cost time. Destroying the RT costs them resources so that should be a priority.
2) Power nodes 'buy' time for the marine team. If one (or two) skulks are attacking a power node the marines have time to react.
3) Power nodes take longer to kill than RT's, so by ignoring the RT, the marines gain extra tricks of income.
4) Attacking a power node leaves a skulk incredibly exposed, attacking a RT provides much greater cover.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--QuoteBegin-"sentrysteve"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("sentrysteve")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ask yourself "what will destroying this power node give our team?" If the answer isn't "victory" or "save our hive" then it's probably a waste of time. Time that is much better spent looking for more RT's to kill, saving your RTs, applying pressure, scouting, etc. Keep in mind, marines cannot build on infestation so if the room is already yours, or will soon be yours, destroying power accomplishes nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know English isn't a first language for many, so if that's the case for you let me know if I can rephrase something. I know everyone thinks their opinion is the 'right' one, and it's possible I'm wrong, but I don't think your initial suggestion would provide any benefit in NS2. I bet most players feel the way you do; power nodes are worthless time sinks. I think that's because they attack them in situations where they shouldn't.
I'm not really interested in going about with that.
If we had a single situation, we could easily compare the different methods and see pro's and con's in each, but this isn't it.
I just see this whole "if it isn't an immidiate benefit don't bother" approach very short sighted, and similar to "destroy the sentry battery but leave the sentries" (Not quite, but close enough).
I understand what you're trying to say, don't paste your text again, it's just that I disagree.
Edit: I don't think power nodes are "worthless time sinks", I just think they could be done better.
Fair enough. I really don't understand where you are coming from, at all. Not only did I respond with why I thought your suggestion wasn't the best, I provided my own (which you ignored) and then provided additional suggestions how to better use your time ingame so you don't feel weighed down by destroying RTs (which again, you ignored).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand what you're trying to say, don't paste your text again, it's just that I disagree.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay. In a discussion people usually provide reasons for why they agree/disagree. Again, you basically ignored most of what I said and didn't provide any reasons (like I did) rather than "I disagree."
I'll bow out of this thread now. It's clear we aren't getting anywhere.
Ironically, this is what happens ingame. People think attacking power all over is important. It's not. It's funny to watch it play out in this thread too.
You have made very good points, and I agree with them, however I've not commented on them because they really have nothing to do with what I'm suggesting. Also, I replied to your suggestion, in case you missed it.
If I say "We should change this aspect to this, maybe it would be more fun?"
You answer "You're doing it wrong, play like this to win!"
I don't really know what to say to that, other than to attempt to explain my thoughts better.
Making power nodes more than a on/off -switch would be cool to see, as they are a huge potential that could be capitalized for an even more unique touch to NS2.