Looking forward
Reactwhat
Join Date: 2012-11-13 Member: 170412Members
Join Date: 2012-11-13 Member: 170412Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Where next?</div><b>LONG POST ABOUT INTEGRATION IDEAS</b>
Times have past whereby you can just make a multiplayer game and be done with it, with the push for storefronts, extra statistics and other areas for players to sink their time the game now exists in another space instead of being limited to the server.
There is so much competition in the multiplayer space with numerous established free to play titles and thriving communities that to just offer up a new product into the fray without proper consideration for new players you're only going to hurt yourself. Regardless of the quality of the game if the new players are distanced from understanding it then they're going to have a harder time enjoying it and most likely go back to what they're familiar with. This needn't be a case of making games simpler or adding in hollow experience or achievement systems but making players see what they can experience in this new game and easing them into it organically.
An interesting place to look to is the diehard communities that are still ticking over, besides their obvious love for the game they play for the competition. Pickups, scrims, mixes or whatever name they go by end up being a great place for people to get together and play under whatever rule sets, game modes or maps that will have stemmed from years of playing the game and IRC channels to find these games end up as hub for a lot of core players. Examples for this can be seen for a whole host of games from TFC, TF2, UT2K4, CPMA, NS1, CS1.6, they all have channels dedicated to playing games in a more organised manner. While being well suited to finding games of a higher level than public play it is far from inclusive with newer players being perhaps begrudgingly accepted, still their interest has brought them to that point so that isn't the issue at hand.
The real problem is just how far removed any new player is from this world, it takes a great deal more than a passing interest or a whimsical purchase on steam to get you anywhere close to finding the right #channel in a plethora of IRC networks. For games that don't have the luxury of a spot lit e-sports industry pumping out content and exposing people to the depth and potential of your game then bridging the gap asks a lot from a fresh player base.
Valve are often responsible for raising the bar in their games and since Steam they've been doing the same for the exterior too, so it doesn't come as much of a surprise that DOTA2 is also leading the charge with its excellent integration of High level games and means to learn right there in plain sight. Everything from news, chat channels, ongoing and older tournament games are right at your fingertips without having to stray from the client or venture to external community websites. It's not just Valve though, Riot's integration of tournaments directly into the client and their advertising of top player streams are removing the hurdles for new players to see what is so special about their game.
Granted this level of integration is time and money but at this point in time it's a high priority, if the developers aren't going to make the effort to engage with the community they should have no expectation of the reverse. Still, to look toward the Pickup community again and more specifically the TFC channels and its features. Even though the participants know the game inside out it doesn't mean that the IRC channel should make the effort required to find the players any more taxing. The channel sports a bot which is controlled by channel operators and will automatically split the teams into 4v4, message the players with the necessary server information and respond to requests for substitutes as it logs chat from the server. All frags and data relating to the game is also logged and then put into a stat sheet, giving breakdowns of the kills/flag touches once the game. HLTV is present on all servers used by the channel which auto records and stores demos only when there are 8 or more players on a server. All of this is setup and maintained by the community and while it's not as grand or as well integrated as DOTA2 it's still very streamlined, main difference being is that the hub for this is IRC and not the game client itself.
<a href="http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Parsed/parse.php?log=UK-20121113-0043-raiden3.log" target="_blank">http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20...043-raiden3.log</a>
<a href="http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Demos/UK/" target="_blank">http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Demos/UK/</a>
My reasons for writing this comes from unrest in the Starcraft2 community about its poor implementation and lack of features that the older versions of Battle.net did far better and from seeing how much potential Natural Selection2 has as a game.
NS2 has some nice built in features like the twitter ticker and the tutorials but these are far from enough to bridge the gap. If your community is going to record demos, stream games, run pickups then embrace it, it adds value to your game and will hopefully garner more interest to boot. While I can only speak for myself in that I've always found seeing high level play as something to aspire to, it doesn't deter me as I see it as something that can be attained if I stick with this game that has so much to offer.
As for features inside the game itself, the explore mode is a nice way for players to get a sense of their surroundings but if this could be pushed further to make the experience of jumping in at the deep end a little less jarring. Given that there's a great waypoint system would it not be possible to have simulated attacks / builds done if one were to explore on foot. An AI Commander dropping extractors as you reach destinations and constructing phase-gates so the player gets a better sense of the buildings and their uses. It's not uncommon to see new players disregard phase-gates or just forget about them as they want to get back into action. The commander role could benefit from some build orders to follow in Explore mode, perhaps executed by MAC's just so people get a hands on experience with what they're doing and why.
<div align='center'>
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8181952309_d2959b8a32_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8181952555_90cf8c2a53_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Community is making you content, why not use it.
</b>
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8207/8181952055_7db495ffbf_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
</div>
Times have past whereby you can just make a multiplayer game and be done with it, with the push for storefronts, extra statistics and other areas for players to sink their time the game now exists in another space instead of being limited to the server.
There is so much competition in the multiplayer space with numerous established free to play titles and thriving communities that to just offer up a new product into the fray without proper consideration for new players you're only going to hurt yourself. Regardless of the quality of the game if the new players are distanced from understanding it then they're going to have a harder time enjoying it and most likely go back to what they're familiar with. This needn't be a case of making games simpler or adding in hollow experience or achievement systems but making players see what they can experience in this new game and easing them into it organically.
An interesting place to look to is the diehard communities that are still ticking over, besides their obvious love for the game they play for the competition. Pickups, scrims, mixes or whatever name they go by end up being a great place for people to get together and play under whatever rule sets, game modes or maps that will have stemmed from years of playing the game and IRC channels to find these games end up as hub for a lot of core players. Examples for this can be seen for a whole host of games from TFC, TF2, UT2K4, CPMA, NS1, CS1.6, they all have channels dedicated to playing games in a more organised manner. While being well suited to finding games of a higher level than public play it is far from inclusive with newer players being perhaps begrudgingly accepted, still their interest has brought them to that point so that isn't the issue at hand.
The real problem is just how far removed any new player is from this world, it takes a great deal more than a passing interest or a whimsical purchase on steam to get you anywhere close to finding the right #channel in a plethora of IRC networks. For games that don't have the luxury of a spot lit e-sports industry pumping out content and exposing people to the depth and potential of your game then bridging the gap asks a lot from a fresh player base.
Valve are often responsible for raising the bar in their games and since Steam they've been doing the same for the exterior too, so it doesn't come as much of a surprise that DOTA2 is also leading the charge with its excellent integration of High level games and means to learn right there in plain sight. Everything from news, chat channels, ongoing and older tournament games are right at your fingertips without having to stray from the client or venture to external community websites. It's not just Valve though, Riot's integration of tournaments directly into the client and their advertising of top player streams are removing the hurdles for new players to see what is so special about their game.
Granted this level of integration is time and money but at this point in time it's a high priority, if the developers aren't going to make the effort to engage with the community they should have no expectation of the reverse. Still, to look toward the Pickup community again and more specifically the TFC channels and its features. Even though the participants know the game inside out it doesn't mean that the IRC channel should make the effort required to find the players any more taxing. The channel sports a bot which is controlled by channel operators and will automatically split the teams into 4v4, message the players with the necessary server information and respond to requests for substitutes as it logs chat from the server. All frags and data relating to the game is also logged and then put into a stat sheet, giving breakdowns of the kills/flag touches once the game. HLTV is present on all servers used by the channel which auto records and stores demos only when there are 8 or more players on a server. All of this is setup and maintained by the community and while it's not as grand or as well integrated as DOTA2 it's still very streamlined, main difference being is that the hub for this is IRC and not the game client itself.
<a href="http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Parsed/parse.php?log=UK-20121113-0043-raiden3.log" target="_blank">http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20...043-raiden3.log</a>
<a href="http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Demos/UK/" target="_blank">http://fortress.pwnz.it/Team%20Fortress%20Classic/Demos/UK/</a>
My reasons for writing this comes from unrest in the Starcraft2 community about its poor implementation and lack of features that the older versions of Battle.net did far better and from seeing how much potential Natural Selection2 has as a game.
NS2 has some nice built in features like the twitter ticker and the tutorials but these are far from enough to bridge the gap. If your community is going to record demos, stream games, run pickups then embrace it, it adds value to your game and will hopefully garner more interest to boot. While I can only speak for myself in that I've always found seeing high level play as something to aspire to, it doesn't deter me as I see it as something that can be attained if I stick with this game that has so much to offer.
As for features inside the game itself, the explore mode is a nice way for players to get a sense of their surroundings but if this could be pushed further to make the experience of jumping in at the deep end a little less jarring. Given that there's a great waypoint system would it not be possible to have simulated attacks / builds done if one were to explore on foot. An AI Commander dropping extractors as you reach destinations and constructing phase-gates so the player gets a better sense of the buildings and their uses. It's not uncommon to see new players disregard phase-gates or just forget about them as they want to get back into action. The commander role could benefit from some build orders to follow in Explore mode, perhaps executed by MAC's just so people get a hands on experience with what they're doing and why.
<div align='center'>
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8181952309_d2959b8a32_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8181952555_90cf8c2a53_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<b>Community is making you content, why not use it.
</b>
<img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8207/8181952055_7db495ffbf_b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
</div>
Comments
I don't have a whole lot to say on the competition scene, I really like your UI changes. (Maybe change Pro Games to "Competitions" in the 2nd image.)
I've always wanted to do a tutorial as well. Explore mode is a help, but doesn't really cut it. I could do it in Source and Hammer, but with Spark, and no knowledge of LUA, I don't really know where to Start. I was hoping to build a new map that would play a little like a mini single-player game, with 5 options in the "ready room." Through extensive use of Voice Acting and the Waypoint system, it wouldn't be too difficult to give the players a 3-tech space that could be used for all of this.
Basic would be directly infront of the player, and guides through the core concepts of navigation in 3D and a shooter. This area would be segregated from the level to allow for something similar to Half-Life 1's obstacle course.
Marine would go over the core concepts of working as a team, structures, and tracking difficult targets. An AI commander would place structures in "main" while an AI marine would cover the player. The player and his "AI" buddy would go to an empty tech point, and the player will be asked to protect his AI buddy while he builds. Infestation comes, and so does a Skulk. Upon killing a skulk or two, The AI will drop an armory, requesting the player to buy a shotgun. The final objective would be to go into the infested area and kill a weak Fade. Perhaps while the AI marine, we can call Jenkins, gets killed by it.
Here, the player builds, covers, learns a few basic structures, and feels badass for killing a Fade capable of brutal murder.
Alien would give you some time as each lifeform, go over navigation, and ambushes on AI marines. Covering tasks like taking out power, waiting for an ambush on two marines as a skulk, and perhaps ambushing as a gorge, then attacking as Fade and Onos. Between each "segment" the player would notice infestation grow, and more structures to use as support until the final assault as Onos on a lightly defended marine base, with AI alien buddies, of course.
Again, at the end of the tutorial, we want the player to feel like they learned a lot, and accomplished something big. Killing a fade, and destroying a tiny Marine Firebase should feel like an accomplishment, and should also pump you up for when you get to take on even bigger tasks in an actual game. (Killing a hive, stopping Exos.)
Marine Commander and Alien Commander, behind the player when they start in the ReadyRoom, would be a challenge. I'm still not sure how to implement that one. But I gotta go to work, I'll think on that one later.
The way they handled the rookie servers and players is nice but I feel like I got lucky to have a good vocal commander that ended up giving me a good sense of the game. I've since put 89 hours into the game and when new players end up playing commander I'll tell them what to get and try to be helpful, not all listen but I find that the ones that do often offer to stepdown because they're new. While its a nice gesture they need to grind it out till theyre comfortable and if they had some short scenarios to play through it would help people get familiar with it without ignorant people moaning for specific upgrades.Also in the longterm it'll probably reach a point like it has before where the majority of players know what they're doing which will only make it harder to break in.
Quakelive added some training maps which covered some of the fundamentals of strafejumping and movement, so even if it were incredibly simple or gutted from an existing map something along those lines to learn the basics of walljumping as a skulk. Aliens have such a different playstyle to marines so the sooner they learn to use their mobility rather than charging in the better.
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/814247/d2n7Dh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
While this layout is noisy, with the buttons having a consistent layout familiarity wont take too long and the benefits reaped from making the games menu into a hub/portal rather than a mere stepping stone to a server list are huge.
- Players shouldn't have to go to reddit to see that theyre are taunaments coming up
- New players should see (and have access to) pickup games
- If people see that the community is thriving and have a means to learn by watching then those that are intimidated will be more inclined to stick around
Being a diehard with the game mechanics is fine, but to be conservative over minimal aesthetics for the menus when they can be used for better things is strange.
<ul><li> Chat channels (General, Strategy, Looking for Group etc.)</li><li> Spectate Live (Watch high-level teams duke it out)</li><li> Tournaments (Sign your team up for numerous tournaments)</li><li> Ranked Teams (Elo-based matchmaking system for teams)</li><li> Server Browser (For public play and mods)</li><li> Friend List (Friends from Steam that has NS2)</li><li> Profile (Ranked Stats, Achievements, Match History, Workshop, Favourites, Replays etc.)</li></ul>
<b>Source:</b> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=123427&view=findpost&p=2010175" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2010175</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2017234:date=Nov 9 2012, 11:59 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 9 2012, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That "draw" you're talking about is the endorphins released from satisfying your addictive behavior. The desire to get more shiney skins, make more numbers go up, to keep advancing and pushing the lever in your skinner box in hopes of constant reward. You're not looking for a game; you're looking for a fix.
The reward for playing NS2 is fun. The accomplishment for playing it repeatedly is getting better. The draw is doing something you love. If you want something to satisfy the addiction to constant reinforcement that modern games have psychologically impressed into you, I recommend Halo 4, Warfighter, or the new CoD game coming out; NS2 isn't that kind of game.
NS2 is like football or rock paper scissors. It's like chess or running a race. It's something people do in their free time to have fun; either with friends they know or to test themselves against people they don't. The reward for doing well is winning, and the losing team still gets to have a fun game and a learning experience. It's not designed to draw you in or keep you playing if you don't want to, but for those of us who like gaming, it's a great way to relax or even do the opposite. Little Susie, Apple Pie, Troops, Picket Fences, rabble rabble rabble, etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People keep bringing it up, I keep posting it. >.>