Little Whiningabout 20+ Ppl Servers
Spura
Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9083Members
Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9083Members
I just played 13v13 game and it's impossible to defeat marines. As a skulk u are alwaz against at least 4 marines and FF is off, so they just shoot all over the room and kill u right away. Then they chose a point in middle of the map and the build 9 turrets( i counted them in observer later) 3 ppl building and 5 guarding then quick to siege and then they cover most of the map from there. => gg Assaultin anything is like 3 skulks against 6 marines and 4 turrets impossible. even 6 skulks get killed marines in numbers just fire all over the place. And i think they respawn faster also.
Comments
But I do think the alien spawn time should decrese on larger servers
I dont see any reason that it would be harder for aliens in a large game, but ifyou dont like it just dont play on large servers.
OTOH, on large servers the marines have resources coming out of their ears ... and just about every other orifice as well. Not to mention a hideous spawn rate advantage.
During this, you should have 2 gorges, one capping res points, the other securing a hive with a skulk guard (just in case).
Now, this may or may not work, depending on the relative skills of the players, buut it's a darn sight better than rushing in, dying to no discernable gain, and watching as your hive dies.
The Marines all seem to get a free armour upgrade, (ie 2-3 extra bites to kill), because of the huge jump in pings/ping-flux and the NON-existant melee lag-compensation.
Marines have no problems here because all there weapons, (aside from the knife, and Nade launcher), just work on the "if it was in your sight when YOU shot, you get the hit" principle. (Classic crappy HL netcode.) Skulks get the short end of the stick because there is no compensation for the POSITIONS, (closeness), any 2 'sprites' are in. (ie. the server dosen't really check to see where you are standing, only that what was in your crosshair.)
I've played games where everyone is in the 50-80 ping range except for one guy who was at like 250-400 at any given time. Being a Marine, he had NO problem killing Skulks etc., but on the flip side he was able to take, what seemed like on my end, 4-5 bites (no HeavyArmour) with no problem before gunning me down. Three seconds of lag compensated LMG fire will beat a rushing Skulk ANY DAY because technically you are dead before you even got close enough to take your 1st bite.
Actually, with the spawn speed imbalance, I encourage people <b>not</b> to kill marines. Parasite them (so we all know where they're moving), and attack structures. Travel in a group, and hit and run against buildables. Since marines aren't dying, the marine spawn tends to get vacated. Perfect opportunity to go in and take out that arms lab/observatory/etc.
With over 12 players, ye olde "rush and contain" strategy no longer works. No point in clinging to it.
The skulk rush is NEVER a good strategy. You will only win against complete noobs, while doing the skulk rush against a good team means that before your bodies have cooled, small marine teams are rushing to get to the undefended hives/res points and your gorge.
Skulk rushes will win won games and loose even games.
-It delays the Marines from all working to build objects since they expect the rush and so only a couple build while the rest wait
-If they are not expecting rush you can take out some Marines and possibly delay any advancement moves they were planning to make
-Skulks have nothing to do in the first minute of the game anyway, so why sit doing nothing?
-Last, but not least, the big benefit is that you gorge will get extra resources during the time when the killed skulks are waiting to spawn back in. That can mean a faster first nozzle and then a faster build following this.
Of course not EVERYONE should rush, but a nice group of about half the team usually gets the desired results.
Regards,
Savant
The skulk rush is NEVER a good strategy. You will only win against complete noobs, while doing the skulk rush against a good team means that before your bodies have cooled, small marine teams are rushing to get to the undefended hives/res points and your gorge.
Skulk rushes will win won games and loose even games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldnt say its NEVER a good strategy. I would agree that it is bad to rush in the beginning against a decent team, but it is very popular nowadays to leave the main base defended by no turrets and 1 or 2 marines. A concentrated skulk rush will easily cripple or defeat them. OTOH, if you dont rush the main and harass the main force of marines, you may LOSE the game after one or two unsuccessful attempts.
About aliens in large servers: you'd never think the greatest alien disadvantage is the slow spawn rate. It's really silly, since the marines can kill non-carapaced skulks easily and just rush the hive. Because there are 10+ marines around, securing 2 hives is really easy (and usually done automatically, even in public servers). The commander just has to sit tight and build structures to both hives and possibly transfer the whole main base to one of them. By the time the alien team has been killed (and they are all just waiting for spawn) the marines will have plenty of time to secure their positions or even destroy the last hive. The only way I can see to balance this, is to increase the alien spawn rate dramatically (at least x2) to all servers with over 18 players.
i've been in games where the game only lasts 30 seconds.. (all marines die, and IP's dead)
i've been in games where a skulk rush within 10 minutes (not the first attempt, but a later attempt) won the game because all of the marines were else where
i've been in games where a stupid commander never dropped a welder, and we got the CC down to deeeeeep red.. but then they ejected and welded it :/
lastly; if a skulk rush DOESN'T work at all the first time, don't do another until most of the marines are out of the base
i played one game where, the marines were 100% ready for us. they were crouching, and aiming at the doorways.. not talking, nothing.
we rushed 3 times in a row, we never killed *ANYTHING*
very embarassing, too.. we never got a kill (NOBODY on aliens) until 10 minutes into the game, when they started rushing one of the hives...
very very VERY good teamwork, i must say.. as in the generator hive in caged (i think it is) they were in stability, we had 5 skulks rushing to stability.. they used teamwork to get themselves ontop of the thing in the corner, and they were positioned really well.. all at different heights, crouching, and aiming at the doorway
we did win, though, as our gorge kicked **obscenity** <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Aside from the fact you can create 4 IPs and completely outnumber the aliens as well as freely give out equipment and health packs... anybody who has won against marines on large servers weren't exactly playing good marines. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
We had generator hive, and had lost sewer early, and vent later after a big battle. I was the gorge, we had quite a few res points capped and i was taking chokepoints, i had stability covered and was covering hte hub to protect our hive. During this i was constantly yelling over the voice comm, rallying the skulks to group up and attack vent hive. It was going just ok i guess, but we kept pushing, i moved into shipping with them as gorge and started setting up healing farms for the skulks to base their attacks from. We kept pushing and pushing, keeping the pressure on, and finnaly we got their TF down, BAM. I ran in, droped a quick def tower on the phase gate to block it, and voila the hive was ours. It was a simple fade up and finish it off game after that.
My point is for aliens to win on big servers they really need some good coordination, and need to constantly work on one goal to acheive it.
The difference is the server has a few mods of its own and let aliens share their resources among each other, which really helps balance things out. Plus everybody's pretty good, and more experience in general tends to make the aliens better.
Plus, everybody learned not to rush in the beginning. Because you get killed, with few exceptions. The marines are good enough to just shut down early rushing. And if the team rushes, there is a _long_ rein line.
It turns out really balanced and to be great games.