Enjoying the game but.. an issue + a progression system suggestion!
ezekel
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
Hey everyone, new to the forums here so first off.. hi!
Anyway.. really enjoying this game BUT it has one big issue (which is my biggest problem) and most likely a problem for a large amount of the player-base and in my opinion definitely scaring new players away, while keeping current ones from playing; and that issue is... <b>performance</b>! Now I personally barely played the first title but hear me out coming from playing multiple competitive games across both pc and console (not that console is relevant for this certain post) all of those games had one specific thing in common... <u>high</u> framerates! In a game that requires pinpoint shooting and accuracy and having a low framerate really takes away from the game as a whole.. let me explain
Low framerates cause multiple issues.. let me list some of the most noticeable issues here
1) Input lag - This is huge, not being able to aim properly due to frame restrictions not only makes the game more difficult, but also less enjoyable for the casual player/competitive
2) Tearing - Low framerates generally result in small screen tear due to the refresh rate being near the framerate/below, this is personally noticed on a 120hz monitor and probably seen even more on lower refresh rate monitors.. and no vsync is NOT an option for a person who wants to take any fps game seriously, the input lag resulting from vsync is insanity
3) Inconsistency with gameplay/hit registration - As the framerate skips around, it generally causes some inconsistency with packets and all that (I don't know the entire science) but from personal testing, I've found that having a framerate that constantly skips around results in less consistent gameplay in terms of hitreg compared to a framerate that is standing still with no drops at any point. Not to mention the higher the client framerate THEN the higher the client tic rate which results in better hit reg as well! (I don't know the current client tic rate, but I can tell you that if your framerate drops below the server tic it will cause issues for the client side hit reg.. I'm going to go on a limb and say it's a low ticrate for this game due to the current performance) compared to the first title which was running at a standard 100 tic.. Now-a-days this isn't the case for most online games which is questionable..
Now that is out of the way, I also want to say that if all players had high performance you MAY see a change in who wins the majority of the time in public play, personally when playing a marine most of my deaths are literally because of having trouble tracking aliens due to input lag/tearing/no smoothness
Same thing applies to aliens, except the difference is alien movement speed is so much faster that marines are easier to track even when having a low framerate, I feel this is probably a large cause to the "uneven" wins in public play (or so they say) I personally notice aliens do generally have an easier time winning. BUT I have no competitive/scrim/pug exp on this title so this is coming from someone who doesn't even know the meta, just a comp player from different games.
I hope you all feel the same in regards to my current post, I really enjoy the game and the hard work the developers have made but this specific issue, is not only a huge issue, it should be one of the highest priority issues... having a game that I personally think runs on a very small amount of players computers well is a BIG HIT. I mean look at the recent CS:GO, many players are not swapping simply because they hate the game.. but others aren't swapping because they can't <u>achieve</u> a decent framerate. Heck I even heard of a LAN not accepting the game to be played there unless it was a BYOC because the computers they provide could NOT run the game at an acceptable 100-128+ frames per second (to take advantage of the 100-128 server side tic etc)
Now some data!
I play on lowest settings (everything off) @ my native res 1920x1080 @ 120hz
My minimum framerate noticed (besides rare occurrences) is about 49 while my highest is about 90~+ (when staring at a wall in some waiting lobbies I can hit the 200 fps cap and actually feel my regular mouse cursor aim.. boy does that feel good!)
My computer specs
windows 7 x64
i7 3770k @ stock 3.5ghz
8gb ddr3 ram @ 1600
gtx 285 1 GB
HDD
(if you need something else listed let me know)
(Optional read)
I'm assuming to get my framerate past to what I would consider playable on a <u>competitive</u> level I'd probably have to upgrade my GPU to one of the more later, faster models? Or would I need a higher per core clock speed? I'm not sure how many threads this game utilizes.. I'm going to assume 2 threads. On a side note, I was able to get the source engine to run more than the default 2 threads, by 4 threads, and then by 8 threads. The framerate gain @ 8 threads was pretty insane.. I was seeing framerates of 700-999(my fps cap) with 8 threads running! And I don't believe the engine was even utilizing them properly as valve recommended to use the command at your own use due to instability or something along those lines. So I'm assuming the default game just uses 2 cores, if possible then a max of 3.. Mind blowing what those extra cores will do in the future!
Now to my suggestion!
To add some fun to the game and some progression without giving any type of advantage or ruining the balance of play, I suggest this!
A leveling/ranking system with according symbols
It works like this!
There will be x amount of levels, each level requires a certain amount of total earned XP and each level has a specific symbol which will be listed next to your name on the scoreboard and also visible for you on the main menu game screen. You can also make the levels reward steam achievements just for fun for your steam profile.
Now how will the ratings work(how is xp earned)? Surely you don't want people playing for themselves and ruining the game.. well that part in my mind is pretty simple!
1) You gain half amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish
2) You gain 1/4 amount of experience from completing a match from your join time period to finish (so people who join a game that immediately finishes don't gain as much)
3) You gain full amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish and being a part of the team that won.
So let me re-cap those three for you as simple as possible
1) You get 50% of 100% experience from losing a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
2) You get 25% of 100% experience from either winning or losing a match that you joined in progress from your JOINING POINT to the FINISH
3) You get 100% of 100% experience from winning a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
Sidenote for #2 This can be adjusted for how many minutes the round has already been in progress, maybe past a second amount of minutes players would then be adjusted to the 1/4th value of experience, but those who make it in before x amount of minutes can gain the full 100% from winning or the 50% from losing.
This promotes teamplay as the only way to gain experience is to play an ENTIRE MATCH (helps prevent F4) and helps promote winning as an entire team because you gain the most amount of experience by winning!
I hope you all enjoyed this post, I'd like to discuss with all of you what you think of the performance issue, and also discuss the rating system I suggested which would add some fun for players while not changing the current gameplay, and possibly even improving the gameplay overall!
Anyway.. really enjoying this game BUT it has one big issue (which is my biggest problem) and most likely a problem for a large amount of the player-base and in my opinion definitely scaring new players away, while keeping current ones from playing; and that issue is... <b>performance</b>! Now I personally barely played the first title but hear me out coming from playing multiple competitive games across both pc and console (not that console is relevant for this certain post) all of those games had one specific thing in common... <u>high</u> framerates! In a game that requires pinpoint shooting and accuracy and having a low framerate really takes away from the game as a whole.. let me explain
Low framerates cause multiple issues.. let me list some of the most noticeable issues here
1) Input lag - This is huge, not being able to aim properly due to frame restrictions not only makes the game more difficult, but also less enjoyable for the casual player/competitive
2) Tearing - Low framerates generally result in small screen tear due to the refresh rate being near the framerate/below, this is personally noticed on a 120hz monitor and probably seen even more on lower refresh rate monitors.. and no vsync is NOT an option for a person who wants to take any fps game seriously, the input lag resulting from vsync is insanity
3) Inconsistency with gameplay/hit registration - As the framerate skips around, it generally causes some inconsistency with packets and all that (I don't know the entire science) but from personal testing, I've found that having a framerate that constantly skips around results in less consistent gameplay in terms of hitreg compared to a framerate that is standing still with no drops at any point. Not to mention the higher the client framerate THEN the higher the client tic rate which results in better hit reg as well! (I don't know the current client tic rate, but I can tell you that if your framerate drops below the server tic it will cause issues for the client side hit reg.. I'm going to go on a limb and say it's a low ticrate for this game due to the current performance) compared to the first title which was running at a standard 100 tic.. Now-a-days this isn't the case for most online games which is questionable..
Now that is out of the way, I also want to say that if all players had high performance you MAY see a change in who wins the majority of the time in public play, personally when playing a marine most of my deaths are literally because of having trouble tracking aliens due to input lag/tearing/no smoothness
Same thing applies to aliens, except the difference is alien movement speed is so much faster that marines are easier to track even when having a low framerate, I feel this is probably a large cause to the "uneven" wins in public play (or so they say) I personally notice aliens do generally have an easier time winning. BUT I have no competitive/scrim/pug exp on this title so this is coming from someone who doesn't even know the meta, just a comp player from different games.
I hope you all feel the same in regards to my current post, I really enjoy the game and the hard work the developers have made but this specific issue, is not only a huge issue, it should be one of the highest priority issues... having a game that I personally think runs on a very small amount of players computers well is a BIG HIT. I mean look at the recent CS:GO, many players are not swapping simply because they hate the game.. but others aren't swapping because they can't <u>achieve</u> a decent framerate. Heck I even heard of a LAN not accepting the game to be played there unless it was a BYOC because the computers they provide could NOT run the game at an acceptable 100-128+ frames per second (to take advantage of the 100-128 server side tic etc)
Now some data!
I play on lowest settings (everything off) @ my native res 1920x1080 @ 120hz
My minimum framerate noticed (besides rare occurrences) is about 49 while my highest is about 90~+ (when staring at a wall in some waiting lobbies I can hit the 200 fps cap and actually feel my regular mouse cursor aim.. boy does that feel good!)
My computer specs
windows 7 x64
i7 3770k @ stock 3.5ghz
8gb ddr3 ram @ 1600
gtx 285 1 GB
HDD
(if you need something else listed let me know)
(Optional read)
I'm assuming to get my framerate past to what I would consider playable on a <u>competitive</u> level I'd probably have to upgrade my GPU to one of the more later, faster models? Or would I need a higher per core clock speed? I'm not sure how many threads this game utilizes.. I'm going to assume 2 threads. On a side note, I was able to get the source engine to run more than the default 2 threads, by 4 threads, and then by 8 threads. The framerate gain @ 8 threads was pretty insane.. I was seeing framerates of 700-999(my fps cap) with 8 threads running! And I don't believe the engine was even utilizing them properly as valve recommended to use the command at your own use due to instability or something along those lines. So I'm assuming the default game just uses 2 cores, if possible then a max of 3.. Mind blowing what those extra cores will do in the future!
Now to my suggestion!
To add some fun to the game and some progression without giving any type of advantage or ruining the balance of play, I suggest this!
A leveling/ranking system with according symbols
It works like this!
There will be x amount of levels, each level requires a certain amount of total earned XP and each level has a specific symbol which will be listed next to your name on the scoreboard and also visible for you on the main menu game screen. You can also make the levels reward steam achievements just for fun for your steam profile.
Now how will the ratings work(how is xp earned)? Surely you don't want people playing for themselves and ruining the game.. well that part in my mind is pretty simple!
1) You gain half amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish
2) You gain 1/4 amount of experience from completing a match from your join time period to finish (so people who join a game that immediately finishes don't gain as much)
3) You gain full amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish and being a part of the team that won.
So let me re-cap those three for you as simple as possible
1) You get 50% of 100% experience from losing a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
2) You get 25% of 100% experience from either winning or losing a match that you joined in progress from your JOINING POINT to the FINISH
3) You get 100% of 100% experience from winning a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
Sidenote for #2 This can be adjusted for how many minutes the round has already been in progress, maybe past a second amount of minutes players would then be adjusted to the 1/4th value of experience, but those who make it in before x amount of minutes can gain the full 100% from winning or the 50% from losing.
This promotes teamplay as the only way to gain experience is to play an ENTIRE MATCH (helps prevent F4) and helps promote winning as an entire team because you gain the most amount of experience by winning!
I hope you all enjoyed this post, I'd like to discuss with all of you what you think of the performance issue, and also discuss the rating system I suggested which would add some fun for players while not changing the current gameplay, and possibly even improving the gameplay overall!
Comments
I'm assuming to get my framerate past to what I would consider playable on a competitive level I'd probably have to upgrade my GPU to one of the more later, faster models? Or would I need a higher per core clock speed? I'm not sure how many threads this game utilizes.. I'm going to assume 2 threads. On a side note, I was able to get the source engine to run more than the default 2 threads, by 4 threads, and then by 8 threads. The framerate gain @ 8 threads was pretty insane.. I was seeing framerates of 700-999(my fps cap) with 8 threads running! And I don't believe the engine was even utilizing them properly as valve recommended to use the command at your own use due to instability or something along those lines. So I'm assuming the default game just uses 2 cores, if possible then a max of 3.. Mind blowing what those extra cores will do in the future!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just buy another computer, you have an old-skool one... is this a serious question...? You have the latest hardware, so i think this is just not serious...
And please no progression systems in NS2!! At least a game with no progression-systems and just focusing on gameplay.
I love how this makes you guys so angry, like it affects you in the slightest.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm assuming to get my framerate past to what I would consider playable on a competitive level I'd probably have to upgrade my GPU to one of the more later, faster models?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. From what I understand NS2 is pretty CPU intensive, but your graphics card is WOEFULLY out of date.
It was just a suggestion, they give no advantage what so ever and are only displayed on the score tab and main menu screen, heck add a cvar or option to disable them for those who don't want it on their scoreboard! And with what I suggested it surely won't promote any type of individual I want to be a non-teamplayer etc
<!--quoteo(post=2037029:date=Nov 29 2012, 12:56 AM:name=Azathoth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azathoth @ Nov 29 2012, 12:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037029"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No progression systems, this game is a shelter from that BS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's fun, I play competitive but still enjoy those little non-game altering things
<!--quoteo(post=2037033:date=Nov 29 2012, 01:01 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 29 2012, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037033"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On that subject, every modern game can take advantage of increased core count well beyond the number of processing threads they use by running one thread through multiple cores.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? I've yet to see games properly utilize them.. how do you force a game to use more threads? I was able to get it using a launch option with the source engine and man was that an INSANE noticeable fps increase. I'm curious how games will run in the future when they are properly using more threads or well optimized to use more threads.. must run great.. too sad that some developers optimize games around consoles now-a-days and then port them over to pc.. but it is static hardware.. so it must be easier to do
Oh wait, you're serious? HAhahahahahAH.
Ok, that was obnoxious, but in my defense it was a silly Q. Your CPU is good enough, you may want (but not necessarily need) to clock it higher though, the Ivys can go far with a good air cooler or water. Just not the crappy intel one from the box. Your GPU however is very old and outdated. That would be your bottleneck.
The best GPU pick at the moment is a GTX 660Ti. (Bang per buck) It's a 305% improvement from your 285, and both cheaper and faster than it's direct competitor on the Radeon side.
---------Progression system----------
I was actually pondering that in the shower today. Though I've always been "softly opposed" to progression and XP in FPS games, now that I'm playing a more old school game again where there is none, I kind of miss it, and it feels less fleshed out and I'm less attached to the experience.
Do I think the developers of NS2 should drop whatever they're doing and incorporate RPG elements? Eeeeeeeh no, though it's tempting to be greedy and say yes.
Do I think this is the last multiplayer-focused FPS game in the history of humans anywhere ever to NOT have a progression system? <b>100% guaranteed.</b>
Do I think NS2 has lost a good chunk of sales due to no RPG elements? <b>100% guaranteed.</b>
Oh wait, you're serious? HAhahahahahAH.
Ok, that was obnoxious, but in my defense it was a silly Q. Your CPU is good enough, you may want (but not necessarily need) to clock it higher though, the Ivys can go far with a good air cooler or water. Just not the crappy intel one from the box. Your GPU however is very old and outdated. That would be your bottleneck.
The best GPU pick at the moment is a GTX 660Ti. (Bang per buck) It's a 305% improvement from your 285, and both cheaper and faster than it's direct competitor on the Radeon side.
---------Progression system----------
I was actually pondering that in the shower today. Though I've always been "softly opposed" to progression and XP in FPS games, now that I'm playing a more old school game again where there is none, I kind of miss it, and it feels less fleshed out and I'm less attached to the experience.
Do I think the developers of NS2 should drop whatever they're doing and incorporate RPG elements? Eeeeeeeh no, though it's tempting to be greedy and say yes.
Do I think this is the last multiplayer-focused FPS game in the history of humans anywhere ever to NOT have a progression system? <b>100% guaranteed.</b>
Do I think NS2 has lost a good chunk of sales due to no RPG elements? <b>100% guaranteed.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no no, I'm aware my low end part is my GPU, I just wasn't sure if it would make a big impact on this specific title by getting a newer one( some titles I feel are literally only CPU heavy) and since I'm playing at lowest settings I was just wondering..
I was looking @ the 660ti.. I'm just not sure how much higher my fps would be at my current same settings, and yes I got an aftermarket cooler for my cpu
I'm only suggesting the rating system because I saw a thread with something similar (unless I'm crazy) if anything their highest priority should be performance.. I feel like major balancing would come afterwards because you can't even see how players are really playing with the current framerates, I'm curious what the comp players get in this game (I'm assuming at a low res, you can probably hit the fps cap, heck maybe you can even hit it at my res, I wouldn't know though!)
To add some fun to the game and some progression without giving any type of advantage or ruining the balance of play, I suggest this!
A leveling/ranking system with according symbols
-snip-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. If you're not having fun with the game implementing a level grind isn't going to change that. If grinding meaningless levels appeals to you go play an MMO and stop trying to ruin FPS games.
A leveling/ranking system with according symbols
It works like this!
There will be x amount of levels, each level requires a certain amount of total earned XP and each level has a specific symbol which will be listed next to your name on the scoreboard and also visible for you on the main menu game screen. You can also make the levels reward steam achievements just for fun for your steam profile.
Now how will the ratings work(how is xp earned)? Surely you don't want people playing for themselves and ruining the game.. well that part in my mind is pretty simple!
1) You gain half amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish
2) You gain 1/4 amount of experience from completing a match from your join time period to finish (so people who join a game that immediately finishes don't gain as much)
3) You gain full amount of experience from completing a full match from start to finish and being a part of the team that won.
So let me re-cap those three for you as simple as possible
1) You get 50% of 100% experience from losing a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
2) You get 25% of 100% experience from either winning or losing a match that you joined in progress from your JOINING POINT to the FINISH
3) You get 100% of 100% experience from winning a match while being in that match from the START to the FINISH
Sidenote for #2 This can be adjusted for how many minutes the round has already been in progress, maybe past a second amount of minutes players would then be adjusted to the 1/4th value of experience, but those who make it in before x amount of minutes can gain the full 100% from winning or the 50% from losing.
This promotes teamplay as the only way to gain experience is to play an ENTIRE MATCH (helps prevent F4) and helps promote winning as an entire team because you gain the most amount of experience by winning!
I hope you all enjoyed this post, I'd like to discuss with all of you what you think of the performance issue, and also discuss the rating system I suggested which would add some fun for players while not changing the current gameplay, and possibly even improving the gameplay overall!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, another leveling system suggestion. What else is new?
You say it'll promote teamwork. I disagree. From my experience, people will just leave games even earlier and rage to each other even more because they won't get their precious XP when they're losing. The only thing a leveling/achievement system does is keep players hooked on a meaningless reward mechanism, so they'll play the game for as long as possible, not necessarily because they enjoy it, but because they need to get that next level. Basically, it turns players into addicts. I'm not saying everybody is like this, but enough people are. There's a reason why you see those skinner boxes in all modern shooters.
You're really nice, just kidding. If you read the thread title it clearly says, "Enjoying the game" There is no level grind with the system I suggested, grinding is repeating a process over and over to obtain something specific, for example doing the same quest 50 times until you get the one specific rare chance of item to drop.
My suggestion just gives you a little something for playing a match, there is no loss from leaving, and nothing gained from staying, just something for those who want it to have it while not effecting those who don't want it in any way, shape, or form. And none of it is based on something you do solo, aka kills or score, just as the team winning as a whole so it will have no impact on the game itself other than a few people may not F4 immediately, if they do then nothing is done against them anyway.
Also, you seem to be attacking one point and ignoring the other.. the <b>major</b> point in this thread is the performance problems and things related to them, for example some people complain about the hitreg but that is directly related to performance, and a higher server tic rate won't be possible unless all the clients are pulling better framerates.
Now as for the developers, steam offers a hardware survey to show what the most common hardware is being used over the mass of the accounts using their client.. let's take a look at that
OS Version
Windows 7 64 bit
System RAM
4 GB
Intel CPU Speeds
2.3 Ghz to 2.69 Ghz
Physical CPUs
2 cpus
Video Card Description
Intel HD Graphics 3000 (for usage sake, I'll write the next GPUs in line since on-board doesn't help anyone)
gtx 560ti - 3.08%
gtx 550ti - 2.44%
intel hd graphics
gtx 460 - 2.09%
hd 5770 1.91%
geforce 9800 - 1.80% and so on
VRAM
1024 MB
Primary Display Resolution
1920x1080
Interesting, so the majority of users have only 2 cores @ 2.3-2.9ghz and the rest as you can see, as for this game, it requires some beefy stuff compared to what the majority users have.. I really don't know the work that goes into getting a game to run properly, I'm just hoping something is in the plans.
<!--quoteo(post=2037157:date=Nov 29 2012, 07:18 AM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Nov 29 2012, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037157"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, another leveling system suggestion. What else is new?
You say it'll promote teamwork. I disagree. From my experience, people will just leave games even earlier and rage to each other even more because they won't get their precious XP when they're losing. The only thing a leveling/achievement system does is keep players hooked on a meaningless reward mechanism, so they'll play the game for as long as possible, not necessarily because they enjoy it, but because they need to get that next level. Basically, it turns players into addicts. I'm not saying everybody is like this, but enough people are. There's a reason why you see those skinner boxes in all modern shooters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes yes, exactly, it's a skinner box, we're playing the game over and over to get our precious loot, we'll start raging when we don't get our full amount of experience which gives us an in-game advantage.. oh the glorious loot.. seriously, it doesn't hook anyone unless you're getting something from it, heck add cvars/options to disable it client side for those who could not care about it. Then those who do enjoy it going along while they play can have it as well, works for both sides. please feel free to explain again why something like this couldn't work
And no I'm not even saying have something like this on a high priority list, it's a suggestion. Highest priority should be performance, then balancing/features around the game
I'd love to know why such a minority of players believes that a ranking system as the guy described it would be the worst thing since Zombie Hitler. It would provide a good indication of a given players' experience with the game and assist in matchmaking and balancing teams.
If you're not getting something from it, even simply cosmetic, what's the point... Then you'll have people criticizing it for being pointless, non-rewarding, lacking depth, a waste of dev time, etc. etc.
Might as well learn a little bit of Lua and code it in yourself if you feel the need for a system like that.
<!--quoteo(post=2037175:date=Nov 29 2012, 08:16 AM:name=ezekel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ezekel @ Nov 29 2012, 08:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, you seem to be attacking one point and ignoring the other.. the <b>major</b> point in this thread is the performance problems and things related to them, for example some people complain about the hitreg but that is directly related to performance, and a higher server tic rate won't be possible unless all the clients are pulling better framerates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Performance issues are talked to death and something the devs Constantly have been working on, they openly say they are every few days. This is why I did not address this. As well as the fact that forum threads aren't designed to have multiple different subjects going on in the same thread, this is why you aren't limited to making one thread.
We currently have the rookie server and rookie color option available.
Personally I'd leave ranking to pure FPS games, Natural Selection 2 is more about teamwork than personal success.
Nobody will stop you from modding it in though!
We have a stat mod here for example: <a href="http://ns2stats.org/" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/</a>
And no I'm not even saying have something like this on a high priority list, it's a suggestion. Highest priority should be performance, then balancing/features around the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously it does hook people, even if it doesn't unlock anything. You're asking for it, aren't you? You can argue as much as you want on how it wouldn't actually impact gameplay, but I don't see the use of it in the first place. So, please feel free to explain why leveling up would make the game more fun.
Progression systems are just good for games. They can be a little irritating to the people who don't care, but for every person that doesn't care there's a person who will play just a little bit longer and a little bit more seriously to get that next level, even though it doesn't really mean anything.
Yeah god forbid NS2 have a playerbase of tens of thousands of players who keep playing for years.
i dont care if something like that gets implemented or not, but i have seen people put in insane hours just to get an arbitrary number from 71 to 72.
And other tiny unlocks like 1% movement speed or 1% less noise etc. (Not every level of course, otherwise it would become unbalanced, but it would be about throwing a bone, not giving something huge out)
And other tiny unlocks like 1% movement speed or 1% less noise etc. (Not every level of course, otherwise it would become unbalanced, but it would be about throwing a bone, not giving something huge out)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No offense to you Mr.Metal Handkerchief, but this is the kind of players level systems bring to a game. and exactly why I don't want these systems anywhere near NS.
<!--quoteo(post=2037342:date=Nov 29 2012, 01:51 PM:name=Metal Handkerchief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Metal Handkerchief @ Nov 29 2012, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2037342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, don't worry, I am never one to be offended by comments that are intended to be offensive.
I would love for more players like me to come along and chase out the progress-choking, stubborn, set-in-their-ways, close-minded old community hedge wizard fart huffers who feed off bleeding out imagination and creativity from community discussions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wasn't intended to be offensive. I didn't see a nice way to say "hey that's a terrible idea and you should feel bad for saying it" while at the same time conveying to other people why progression systems turn great games into only good games.
I am not seeking to impede progress, be stubborn or close minded. What you suggested is neither imaginative nor creative. It is overly-used, generic, and ruins games that actually had a chance to be good. This is a skill based game, meaning giving players unfair advantages because of how long they've spent grinding an imaginary unlock system ruins gameplay. That is a simple truth.
Oh, don't worry, I am never one to be offended by comments that are intended to be offensive.
I would love for more players like me to come along and chase out the progress-choking, stubborn, set-in-their-ways, close-minded old community hedge wizard fart huffers who feed off bleeding out imagination and creativity from community discussions.
OT: 1MB animated gif sig? :/
What kind of player is that? And what exactly makes you a better person compared to them?
Fun Fact: Whenever people start ###### about "CoD Kiddies", I just mentally replace the appropriate words with references to Jews. It's highly illuminating of the mental state of such people.
I'll remove it.
Fun Fact: Whenever people start ###### about "CoD Kiddies", I just mentally replace the appropriate words with references to Jews. It's highly illuminating of the mental state of such people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's talking about people having direct advantages over people simply due to time played and not skill. It works for some games but not strategic games such as NS2.