bring back HMGs
phunktion
Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22883Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22883Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
Right now there is no effective way to deal with Onos, other than have 3-4 marines empty a few clips into it, or have an Exo with a long line of sight to the onos
Once 2-3 onos drop its very hard for marines to maintain territory and basically its a slow death. It sucks to have to rely on Exos, which frankly aren't very fun to use. You hardly see them in competative play.
I much rather use JP+HMG combination as a tech path with a high skill ceiling
Once 2-3 onos drop its very hard for marines to maintain territory and basically its a slow death. It sucks to have to rely on Exos, which frankly aren't very fun to use. You hardly see them in competative play.
I much rather use JP+HMG combination as a tech path with a high skill ceiling
Comments
It's weird that every single weapon is more like a sidegrade than an upgrade, yet they still cost money? Sure each weapon has situational advantages, but unless they arise I'm quite happy sticking to the LMG most of the game. Unless there's a decent fade on the field I won't even bother with shotgun (although they're also good against skulks, LMG is pretty good too). Seems like there is room for a new weapon to improve non-exo marines arsenal, though not sure what it is.
Wasn't there a weapon in the halo series (or perhaps something else) that did continuous damage to something while you're targeting and shooting (like an hmg or lmg would), but the longer you kept your aim on it and didn't drift out, the damage output per second would increase (until you lost aim). This might be a good addition. It wouldn't be too OP against skulks or lerks or fades, purely because they're quick, and would require precise targeting to get damage output to increase beyond that of what an LMG would do anyway. Yet it could be more effective against onoses than LMG would. Don't sentries work this way? The longer they target something the higher their rate of fire?
Anyway, if HMG were ever introduced (though I doubt it ever will be), I think a good idea for balancing it would be to not allow jetpackers to carry one.
Isn't classic mod live yet?
It doesn't need to be the exact HMG from NS1, it can be balanced for this game.
it had it's down sides too, like a very long reload and a larger spread than the LMG
d0ped0g:
I like the idea of a weapon that does more damage the longer you stay on target
it had it's down sides too, like a very long reload and a larger spread than the LMG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this.Why do people freak out when someone asks for HMG?If balanced properly it could fit in.
Properly implemented in NS2 the HMG would go a long way to correcting balance issues, as it would allow for greater progression for marine weaponry, allowing the shotgun to be adjusted (and the lerk/fade) for greater class balance. It would also help stop the critical mass of onos that almost always results in alien wins.
Like someone suggested, making the flamer more cone like would be a more appropriate start.
Also what Dragon said.
I also really don't like them because they're overly easy to use with their gross massive clips of ammo and their easy mode spray pattern. They were a very uninspired and uninteresting weapon. I thought it was brilliant sticking them on the Exo and the Exo only, because it allowed them to be implemented in a much more interesting way, and removed all the absolute garbage caused by putting them in the hands of a thing that flies everywhere.
The HMG role has been delegated to the Exosuits. Adding HMG would run the risk of making exosuits or LMG upgrades redundant, or have the HMG comparatively useless. We don't need an extra weapon just for the sake of satiating NS1 nostalgia.
Instead of pushing for HMG, why not push for different upgrades to the LMG through the arms lab? Such as bigger clips for example. Or more Exosuit upgrades/sidegrades.
Making them commander-dropped-only might help with balance. Or some hybrid, like commander drops the suit and marines spend pres to upgrade its weapons.
Making them commander-dropped-only might help with balance. Or some hybrid, like commander drops the suit and marines spend pres to upgrade its weapons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how I'd upgrade exo's to counter onos more than they already do... A big part of the problem with onos is that they are VERY mobile. Exo's can kinda sorta deny an onos from getting into an area, but they definitely can't prevent onos from doing damage elsewhere on the map, and as such they really aren't an effective "counter" to onos.
non choices : pistol, lmg
choices : shotgun , GL, FL
theres more than enough room for more weapons, especially an hmg like weapon, its not like it would replace the EXO minigun. For starters the Minigun does heavy damage which is good vs structures and alien armor, it has unlimited ammo and its connected to an EXO that has loads of hp and a claw ... and you can get dual miniguns. HMG does have a place within marines arsenal ... it just wont be as good as it was in NS1, perhaps give some downsides to the weapon.
non choices : pistol, lmg
choices : shotgun , GL, FL
theres more than enough room for more weapons, especially an hmg like weapon, its not like it would replace the EXO minigun. For starters the Minigun does heavy damage which is good vs structures and alien armor, it has unlimited ammo and its connected to an EXO that has loads of hp and a claw ... and you can get dual miniguns. HMG does have a place within marines arsenal ... it just wont be as good as it was in NS1, perhaps give some downsides to the weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More apparent choices often = less actual choices.
If the HMG is better than the flame thrower, than the flame thrower never gets used any more, and then it was a waste of time to put it in the game in the first place. Having the "choice" to use some powerful late game weapon, often eliminates the "choice" of using some other thing. It's not a real choice to use reapers in the late game in starcraft 2, because they are just worse than hellions in every way, and they die too easily to every army. Simply being able to do it if you want to, doesn't make it viable, and because it's not viable it honestly might as well not be in the game to begin with.
We see this a lot in CS 1.6. Everyone buys the AK47, the M4A1, or the Awp. There are a lot of other guns in the game, but they are very rarely used, because they aren't effective "choices", they are worse, if even only by a very slight amount, than the big 2 options. The slightest imbalance where one gun steps on another's feet can make some artists hard work something that is only every played with as a joke, or a trap for bad players to fall into choosing a "newbie" option.
It doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a weapon that invalidates every other weapon, but the HMG as it was in NS1 DEFINITELY meant, if you had the money, you would NEVER choose an LMG any more.
You're incorrect that the AR is a non choice. Choosing to stay with the AR is not just an issue of saving a bit of cash. A flamethrower isn't always better to have than an AR, it's not as good against fades and onos, it doesn't control range as well. A shotgun is not always better than the AR, it doesn't have as much range, it's a better direct combat weapon, but not as good as a combat support weapon. A GL OBVIOUSLY isn't always as good as an AR. If you get caught in a hallway with a skulk you DEFINITELY prefer having an AR to having a GL.
An HMG type weapon COULD be made to be a choice, but it will definitely be hard to do in such a way that it doesn't step on the AR's toes a lot.
i thought exos were originally supposed to have railguns
Unfortunately, by adding HMG to NS2 would hurt balance much at current stage. It has to be 'adopted' for current gameplay.
Making everything useful and a mainstay isn't actually very interesting. SC2's samey deathballs of 'every tech path in the game' is very much the result of this type of approach.
HMGs were fun _because_ they were double the power of an LMG. Because they were spray weapons unlike a shotgun. Because they had this long reload time that made them intense but still flawed weapons for their cost.
Making an HMG work in NS2 is fairly easy. There are many creative ways of spicing the idea up with it still being an HMG.
Most of the resistance to the HMG is simply emotionalism in the community about NS1 and its flaws.