Wall hacks actually do work, unfortunately. I was just playing in a game where the same marine would shoot me with a pistol exactly while I was cloaked on a wall.
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
<!--quoteo(post=2039566:date=Dec 4 2012, 12:56 PM:name=»Comrade«)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (»Comrade« @ Dec 4 2012, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039566"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WOW Ok, lots of different responses
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
I guess we will be waiting for a rebalance then ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just obs train until armour 2 is done. Slow but solid pushing 'beats' camo.
They may get more RTs up early on but their second hive upgrade mix will be missing celerity/adren or carapace/regen. This makes them much weaker in the mid-game hive push scenario where meat-grinding is far more important.
<!--quoteo(post=2039573:date=Dec 3 2012, 07:16 PM:name=beyond.wudge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (beyond.wudge @ Dec 3 2012, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You just obs train until armour 2 is done. Slow but solid pushing 'beats' camo.
They may get more RTs up early on but their second hive upgrade mix will be missing celerity/adren or carapace/regen. This makes them much weaker in the mid-game hive push scenario where meat-grinding is far more important.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With that obs "train," often there is no midgame. You might take a hive down, but by that time they probably have two more and 6 RTs. Then it's trolol time.
<!--quoteo(post=2038272:date=Dec 1 2012, 01:44 AM:name=TSADrone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSADrone @ Dec 1 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Signed up for this thread. Camo is ridiculous. However, if you use your TSA visor this game is a lot more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice cheat... err, mod. Hopefully most server admins have turned on the necessary const. checks to make this unusable :-) .
I think camo is fine as-is, and I play nothing but pub...
People just need to get used to the invisibility and learn the common behaviors associated with them. Kinda like spies in TF2, at a certain level they become less useful.
Always assume there is a camo skulk in the room, keep moving constantly, strafe back and forth when guarding, hopefully you are not retarded and are with a buddy when pushing out for rt's, cover/atleast look at each other's feet while building/ moving etc, if its vital to your economy to take something, have the commander scan the room you are in.
Part of the problem is exacerbated by the fact that not only were observer ranges decreased significantly but their price went up so not only do you have less useful observatories but comms are less likely to place them because it's an expensive counter to an alien that costs zero tres/pres.
Plus there's that annoying bug which prevents MAC's from building observatories.
Really there should be some kind of shimmer when a skulk gets within a few feet. It feels real daft to just trip over a skulk you basically ran straight at. Again, i say within a few feet, very close. I understand cloak was worthless previously when it shimmered all the time.
UWE should have really done one or the other. Doing both and removing camo shimmer made the changes huge.
I think camo should be a invisible only when not moving feature the rest of the time make it what it once was or slightly better than that.
Right now it is just too powerful and it's having another side effect. It is driving away new players who get frustrated getting ganked by an opponent who appears from out of thin air. If we drive away new players the game will have only 200-300 regular players within a couple of months.
Even if Camouflage is counterable (it is - to a degree) the way it works nonetheless is pure idiocy. There simply shouldn't be 100% invisibility in the game, period - camouflage should be just that, <i>camouflage</i>, greatly reducing your ability to be spotted, but it shouldn't be some insane stealth system that makes you completely impossibru to see even if you are pushing yourself right against the kisser of a Marine in a well-lit room. Current camouflage implementation is pure game design fail, period.
What about reverting camo to 100% only when standing still but make it be invisible to scans and obs too (even when moving) ? That would let camo still be wanted but not as annoying as it is right now.
100% invis is needed, or you can circumvent it with graphic options to see them very easily.
The most annoying thing about camo is, that you got no counter as marine on the field. You rely absolutely on your commander. And while NS2 has a typical reliance on com <-> soldiers, this is simply to much. We need to make it counter-able by the marines on the field. The problem gets even worse, when you think of the network delay. Before you notice that a skulk is biting you, he got already 2 save bites in.
Solution: Uncloaking takes 0.5 or maybe 1 second. In this time you can't bite. If this isn't enough we can even add a sound to the uncloaking. But careful with this. Don't nerf it into oblivion.
Andren was nerfed into a terrible upgrade because shift provided the same functionality.
Shade provides AOE cloak, so why does there need to be another upgrade that gives the same functionality? Increase the range on the AOE, keep it at 100% invisibility if you must even though if you were a new player and getting repeat owned by a 100% invisible alien you'd ragequit this game pretty damn fast (I have friends who already have).
Don't think this has been suggested. What about a marine ability, that costs personal resources to use, that can scan the area around the marine? Perhaps smaller area and/or shorter duration than the commander version. This could be an upgrade researched in the observatory.
A marine upgrade to allow for motion tracking within a short range of the marine would be a good counter. Make it achievable in the same amount of time for the same resources as cloak costs the alien khamm. The motion tracking would not reveal the alien, just show the motion circle when there is movement. This way the alien could sit still to remain hidden, but if he moves the marine would see the motion tracking circle appear. This would be a good counter to camo as a skilled alien could still use camo to his advantage, yet a marine would be able to tell if a pack of skulks was walking straight into his face ..
<!--quoteo(post=2039566:date=Dec 3 2012, 08:56 PM:name=»Comrade«)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (»Comrade« @ Dec 3 2012, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2039566"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->WOW Ok, lots of different responses
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
I guess we will be waiting for a rebalance then ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the marines are scanned, the marines heartily win, if they are not scanned, the skulks heartily win.
Comments
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
I guess we will be waiting for a rebalance then ?
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
I guess we will be waiting for a rebalance then ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just obs train until armour 2 is done. Slow but solid pushing 'beats' camo.
They may get more RTs up early on but their second hive upgrade mix will be missing celerity/adren or carapace/regen. This makes them much weaker in the mid-game hive push scenario where meat-grinding is far more important.
They may get more RTs up early on but their second hive upgrade mix will be missing celerity/adren or carapace/regen. This makes them much weaker in the mid-game hive push scenario where meat-grinding is far more important.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With that obs "train," often there is no midgame. You might take a hive down, but by that time they probably have two more and 6 RTs. Then it's trolol time.
<!--quoteo(post=2038272:date=Dec 1 2012, 01:44 AM:name=TSADrone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSADrone @ Dec 1 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2038272"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Signed up for this thread. Camo is ridiculous. However, if you use your TSA visor this game is a lot more fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice cheat... err, mod. Hopefully most server admins have turned on the necessary const. checks to make this unusable :-) .
People just need to get used to the invisibility and learn the common behaviors associated with them. Kinda like spies in TF2, at a certain level they become less useful.
Plus there's that annoying bug which prevents MAC's from building observatories.
Really there should be some kind of shimmer when a skulk gets within a few feet. It feels real daft to just trip over a skulk you basically ran straight at. Again, i say within a few feet, very close. I understand cloak was worthless previously when it shimmered all the time.
UWE should have really done one or the other. Doing both and removing camo shimmer made the changes huge.
Right now it is just too powerful and it's having another side effect. It is driving away new players who get frustrated getting ganked by an opponent who appears from out of thin air. If we drive away new players the game will have only 200-300 regular players within a couple of months.
That would let camo still be wanted but not as annoying as it is right now.
The most annoying thing about camo is, that you got no counter as marine on the field. You rely absolutely on your commander. And while NS2 has a typical reliance on com <-> soldiers, this is simply to much. We need to make it counter-able by the marines on the field.
The problem gets even worse, when you think of the network delay. Before you notice that a skulk is biting you, he got already 2 save bites in.
Solution:
Uncloaking takes 0.5 or maybe 1 second. In this time you can't bite. If this isn't enough we can even add a sound to the uncloaking. But careful with this. Don't nerf it into oblivion.
Andren was nerfed into a terrible upgrade because shift provided the same functionality.
Shade provides AOE cloak, so why does there need to be another upgrade that gives the same functionality? Increase the range on the AOE, keep it at 100% invisibility if you must even though if you were a new player and getting repeat owned by a 100% invisible alien you'd ragequit this game pretty damn fast (I have friends who already have).
But my original thread was about ideas and suggestions on how to deal with camo aliens
But OK. From reading the replies to my initial question it seems that most people here seem to be saying the only decent counter is commander scanning, which doesn't happen because of a res issue perhaps.
As one guy put it. 4 level 1 marines vs 4 camo skulk . . . who wins ?
I guess we will be waiting for a rebalance then ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the marines are scanned, the marines heartily win, if they are not scanned, the skulks heartily win.