Changes for competitive play (Long)
Marshall_Drummin
Join Date: 2012-12-04 Member: 174115Members
Join Date: 2012-12-04 Member: 174115Members
<div class="IPBDescription">For dev team</div>Dev Team:
Natural Selection 2 is the best game out. It has the potential to become the best game made to date, if you concentrate on the competitive potential this game has through a few balancing tweaks. I have tons of experience playing competitive games, have attended a few LAN tournaments and two international tournaments, winning one (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-S7vZr5-8Y&list=PLF2ADB4CCA93B7C63&index=10" target="_blank">CPL Event Winter 2004</a>).I have a few ideas that I have been juggling around, but to fine tune these ideas, I would need some details on how resources are gained. But anyway I'll start out with a few basic ideas I have so far.
1. Tech tree.
-Implement tech trees for marine weapons and alien skill
-Each hive gained will allow each team to advance up one tier up to three tiers. For marines tier 1 with only one starting command chair, you have access to shotguns and weapons/armor upgrades 1. At two command chairs, this is tentative depending balancing, but jetpacks and grenade launchers and maybe flame throwers as well as weapons/armor upgrades level 2. The reason I say this is tentative is because gameplay would have to be tested to see how tier 2 marines and tier 2 aliens would stack up against one another. At three command chairs, the marines will have access to exosuits and tier 3 weapons and armor.
-Moving along to aliens, this side is very dynamic and can be troublesome in terms of balancing. At tier 1 aliens with one starting hive should be allowed to upgrade celerity or regeneration. Celerity is a no brainer for tier 1, but regeneration should also be considered as a choice for tier 1 because the beginning of early game is where regen really shows its true colors. A skulk against a marine with a shotgun comes a little later, so the time before shotgun tech is where I see regeneration being the most useful. Attributes should be divided into tech tiers for aliens. Cloak is a skill currently I feel is very overpowered. The reason I feel it should be nerfed is that gameplay in terms of ground able to be covered by the marines is drastically reduced when cloak is out for the aliens. For example a marine in an open room cannot enter without giving up at least two bites from a cloaked skulk who walked up behind him completely invisible. To make a game competitive you need fast gameplay. Speed is everything and the faster units move and jump the more people will play the game and WATCH the game. That is the reason I would place cloak in at least tier 2 with silence, after the aliens have captured their 2nd hive.
-One way to nerf cloak would make it so that a cloaked unit will always appear to be a distorted picture ala the predator, but more so while moving. Or you can shift walk with cloak on for lets say three seconds, thus limiting how much ground an alien can cover while cloaked, while increasing the ground a marine can take with cloaked units on the field. A counter to cloak would be heat vision goggles for the marines at tier 2 exactly how it works for aliens. I like this idea because it would work exactly as the aliens vision works as well. The reason I don't like it is that the environment of the game is beautiful and to play a game on both sides without being exposed to your hardwork is not doing the game justice. But cloaking needs to be nerfed for the sake of the speed of the gameplay.
-This brings up another point. Aliens should be able to stack their abilities with one another such as celerity and regeneration. But each creature should only be allowed to have certain skills. I find that a cloaked onos to be a little on the silly side, but should definately be able to stack celerity and carapace together. Skulks probably should not be as viable in tier 3 so the carapace upgrade should be negligible for them, but that is all in terms of balancing which can be sorted out in further detail later.
-I would also create a building that will allow aliens to upgrade their weapons and armor. I feel that adding weapons and armor upgrades creates an immense oppurtunity to add another aspect to the strategy game. Here's an example, skulks at 0 armor can take lets say 8 shots from a rifle, but 10 shots after one upgrade at armor 1. But the real challenge lies with shotguns and other upgraded weapons from the marines. I feel that in tier 2 with two hives, aliens should be able to take two shots from a shotgun when they have carapace level 2. I would possibly leave a headshot or a center mass shot from close range to be one kill, but since shotguns are basically tier 1.5 tech, carapace level 2 should allow aliens to negate the advantage shotguns bring against skulks. I feel that many oppurtunites like this will not only balance the game, but make it extremely dynamic and flexible for the commander to pick and choose certain strategies. At tier 3 aliens with three hives are able to research additional carapace and adrenaline. All these values can be tweaked and will need to be tweaked.
-Another point is upgrades should be able to stack certain abilities for certain classes of aliens as mentioned before. Aliens should not have to research abilities again after respawn.
2. Gameplay
-Allow player's to drop personal resources. This will prove to be valuable allowing a competitive team to combine resources to purchase certain weapons, exos, or jetpacks. You can see how certain rushes can be coordinated by collaborating teammates. Pressing a key like H would drop all the resources on the ground whether it be 7 or 37. That way once a player has bought the desired item, he can simply press H again and drop the change back for the other player.
-Allow first person, third person, and top down overviews for spectators. Have a view of the commander's screen as well as a player name label for the person being spectated. Having a first person view of a player while he is fragging is essential for the competitive scene.
-Implement a command allowing a round to be restarted. In CS 1.6 during competitive play a script had to be written and it would restart the round 3 times before the match was technically live. But this is just an example. Implementing a script like this would definately make organized competitive games look polished and verrrrry professional. You would have to make it so everybody on their teams would remain on their teams, but the round restarted. Also you could possibly make it so that once a round was won, a team score would increase by 1 denoting each win by each team.
-HUD_fastswitch 0 or 1 was an HL1 command I'm sure you are familiar with. It allows you to switch to the weapon you selected previously, without having to click mouse 1 for affirmation of selection. A button should be assigned to last inventory.
-I_Sensitivity does not reflect itself in the settings menu if you change it. Make the sensitivity scroll bar in game settings also be a number you can switch. Have the game settings senstivity number be a shortcut to the i_sensitivity command, and have it reflect the sensitivity scroll bar.
-Hitbox registration. I noticed there was a post about this and it reminds me of ex_interp command in HL1 mods. Ex_interp .1 allowed a player to be hit from a position they were in a split second ago, while ex_interp 0 or 0.01 would make hitbox detection almost real time. There is something more to this beyond my knowledge of how this game works, but its an important aspect and I would be willing to help you guys out playtesting things.
-Marines should be able to pickup weapons easier. Pressing G over a weapon should drop their current weapon and switch it to the weapon picked up. When there is no weapon it should drop the current gun, and when there is no weapon in hand in the main weapon slot a gun should be picked up when walking over it without pressing G. If you have an empty 1 slot but are currently on your pistol or 2 slot, you should pickup up the gun and switch to it by default (or not if you choose not to as an option) if you touch it, without pressing G.
-Marines should have a stamina bar on their HUD to show them how much they can sprint.
-Bunnyhopping will further increase how fast and fun the game is to play and watch, so I would suggest allowing the marines to constantly be able to jump, while not affecting their stamina bar. I would not make it so the marines gained acceleration though. This raises the skill ceiling of the game and whenever you raise the roof on the skill ceiling the more people will play and watch.
-I would get rid of the slowed movement while going backwards, even though this was how the first game worked. You don't have to but I think its a good choice to make for sake of speed.
-Jetpacks I think have too little power, and a skulk without adrenaline should be able to leap more often. Minor tweaks but this would increase the speed further.
-Allow a button to be assigned to previous weapon and next weapon, instead of being unable to switch it from mouse wheel.
-Personal resources and Commander resources are something that I would like to look into. I mentioned before that I would like to receive information on how resources are gained in this game and how it is affected by each resource node, because I could help tweak balance with this info.0
I played your first HL1 mod a lot, and Natural Selection 2 is by far the most competitive and dynamic game to be made thus far in all of gaming in my opinion. It can be the next first person shooter to hit international LAN events. Nothing else is like it out there, and already in my mind it has the potential to become a blockbuster in terms of strategy. 7 on 7 action would be a great format for this. If you're as excited as I am about this game, you will contact me. From there we will make it the premier game of competitive gaming. You will be competing with CS:GO but from what I hear it is weak and does not live up to CS 1.6, the huge blockbuster of gaming for many years after its graphics became outdated. Its all about gameplay, not graphics. Luckily your game has both. This is your time to shine :D
I have many ideas just need the data and playtesting environment to work in. If you would like to work with me you can reach me here:
Email:
Mdiesel4747@yahoo.com
If you want my skype or steam name I will gladly give it to you.
Cheers!
Natural Selection 2 is the best game out. It has the potential to become the best game made to date, if you concentrate on the competitive potential this game has through a few balancing tweaks. I have tons of experience playing competitive games, have attended a few LAN tournaments and two international tournaments, winning one (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-S7vZr5-8Y&list=PLF2ADB4CCA93B7C63&index=10" target="_blank">CPL Event Winter 2004</a>).I have a few ideas that I have been juggling around, but to fine tune these ideas, I would need some details on how resources are gained. But anyway I'll start out with a few basic ideas I have so far.
1. Tech tree.
-Implement tech trees for marine weapons and alien skill
-Each hive gained will allow each team to advance up one tier up to three tiers. For marines tier 1 with only one starting command chair, you have access to shotguns and weapons/armor upgrades 1. At two command chairs, this is tentative depending balancing, but jetpacks and grenade launchers and maybe flame throwers as well as weapons/armor upgrades level 2. The reason I say this is tentative is because gameplay would have to be tested to see how tier 2 marines and tier 2 aliens would stack up against one another. At three command chairs, the marines will have access to exosuits and tier 3 weapons and armor.
-Moving along to aliens, this side is very dynamic and can be troublesome in terms of balancing. At tier 1 aliens with one starting hive should be allowed to upgrade celerity or regeneration. Celerity is a no brainer for tier 1, but regeneration should also be considered as a choice for tier 1 because the beginning of early game is where regen really shows its true colors. A skulk against a marine with a shotgun comes a little later, so the time before shotgun tech is where I see regeneration being the most useful. Attributes should be divided into tech tiers for aliens. Cloak is a skill currently I feel is very overpowered. The reason I feel it should be nerfed is that gameplay in terms of ground able to be covered by the marines is drastically reduced when cloak is out for the aliens. For example a marine in an open room cannot enter without giving up at least two bites from a cloaked skulk who walked up behind him completely invisible. To make a game competitive you need fast gameplay. Speed is everything and the faster units move and jump the more people will play the game and WATCH the game. That is the reason I would place cloak in at least tier 2 with silence, after the aliens have captured their 2nd hive.
-One way to nerf cloak would make it so that a cloaked unit will always appear to be a distorted picture ala the predator, but more so while moving. Or you can shift walk with cloak on for lets say three seconds, thus limiting how much ground an alien can cover while cloaked, while increasing the ground a marine can take with cloaked units on the field. A counter to cloak would be heat vision goggles for the marines at tier 2 exactly how it works for aliens. I like this idea because it would work exactly as the aliens vision works as well. The reason I don't like it is that the environment of the game is beautiful and to play a game on both sides without being exposed to your hardwork is not doing the game justice. But cloaking needs to be nerfed for the sake of the speed of the gameplay.
-This brings up another point. Aliens should be able to stack their abilities with one another such as celerity and regeneration. But each creature should only be allowed to have certain skills. I find that a cloaked onos to be a little on the silly side, but should definately be able to stack celerity and carapace together. Skulks probably should not be as viable in tier 3 so the carapace upgrade should be negligible for them, but that is all in terms of balancing which can be sorted out in further detail later.
-I would also create a building that will allow aliens to upgrade their weapons and armor. I feel that adding weapons and armor upgrades creates an immense oppurtunity to add another aspect to the strategy game. Here's an example, skulks at 0 armor can take lets say 8 shots from a rifle, but 10 shots after one upgrade at armor 1. But the real challenge lies with shotguns and other upgraded weapons from the marines. I feel that in tier 2 with two hives, aliens should be able to take two shots from a shotgun when they have carapace level 2. I would possibly leave a headshot or a center mass shot from close range to be one kill, but since shotguns are basically tier 1.5 tech, carapace level 2 should allow aliens to negate the advantage shotguns bring against skulks. I feel that many oppurtunites like this will not only balance the game, but make it extremely dynamic and flexible for the commander to pick and choose certain strategies. At tier 3 aliens with three hives are able to research additional carapace and adrenaline. All these values can be tweaked and will need to be tweaked.
-Another point is upgrades should be able to stack certain abilities for certain classes of aliens as mentioned before. Aliens should not have to research abilities again after respawn.
2. Gameplay
-Allow player's to drop personal resources. This will prove to be valuable allowing a competitive team to combine resources to purchase certain weapons, exos, or jetpacks. You can see how certain rushes can be coordinated by collaborating teammates. Pressing a key like H would drop all the resources on the ground whether it be 7 or 37. That way once a player has bought the desired item, he can simply press H again and drop the change back for the other player.
-Allow first person, third person, and top down overviews for spectators. Have a view of the commander's screen as well as a player name label for the person being spectated. Having a first person view of a player while he is fragging is essential for the competitive scene.
-Implement a command allowing a round to be restarted. In CS 1.6 during competitive play a script had to be written and it would restart the round 3 times before the match was technically live. But this is just an example. Implementing a script like this would definately make organized competitive games look polished and verrrrry professional. You would have to make it so everybody on their teams would remain on their teams, but the round restarted. Also you could possibly make it so that once a round was won, a team score would increase by 1 denoting each win by each team.
-HUD_fastswitch 0 or 1 was an HL1 command I'm sure you are familiar with. It allows you to switch to the weapon you selected previously, without having to click mouse 1 for affirmation of selection. A button should be assigned to last inventory.
-I_Sensitivity does not reflect itself in the settings menu if you change it. Make the sensitivity scroll bar in game settings also be a number you can switch. Have the game settings senstivity number be a shortcut to the i_sensitivity command, and have it reflect the sensitivity scroll bar.
-Hitbox registration. I noticed there was a post about this and it reminds me of ex_interp command in HL1 mods. Ex_interp .1 allowed a player to be hit from a position they were in a split second ago, while ex_interp 0 or 0.01 would make hitbox detection almost real time. There is something more to this beyond my knowledge of how this game works, but its an important aspect and I would be willing to help you guys out playtesting things.
-Marines should be able to pickup weapons easier. Pressing G over a weapon should drop their current weapon and switch it to the weapon picked up. When there is no weapon it should drop the current gun, and when there is no weapon in hand in the main weapon slot a gun should be picked up when walking over it without pressing G. If you have an empty 1 slot but are currently on your pistol or 2 slot, you should pickup up the gun and switch to it by default (or not if you choose not to as an option) if you touch it, without pressing G.
-Marines should have a stamina bar on their HUD to show them how much they can sprint.
-Bunnyhopping will further increase how fast and fun the game is to play and watch, so I would suggest allowing the marines to constantly be able to jump, while not affecting their stamina bar. I would not make it so the marines gained acceleration though. This raises the skill ceiling of the game and whenever you raise the roof on the skill ceiling the more people will play and watch.
-I would get rid of the slowed movement while going backwards, even though this was how the first game worked. You don't have to but I think its a good choice to make for sake of speed.
-Jetpacks I think have too little power, and a skulk without adrenaline should be able to leap more often. Minor tweaks but this would increase the speed further.
-Allow a button to be assigned to previous weapon and next weapon, instead of being unable to switch it from mouse wheel.
-Personal resources and Commander resources are something that I would like to look into. I mentioned before that I would like to receive information on how resources are gained in this game and how it is affected by each resource node, because I could help tweak balance with this info.0
I played your first HL1 mod a lot, and Natural Selection 2 is by far the most competitive and dynamic game to be made thus far in all of gaming in my opinion. It can be the next first person shooter to hit international LAN events. Nothing else is like it out there, and already in my mind it has the potential to become a blockbuster in terms of strategy. 7 on 7 action would be a great format for this. If you're as excited as I am about this game, you will contact me. From there we will make it the premier game of competitive gaming. You will be competing with CS:GO but from what I hear it is weak and does not live up to CS 1.6, the huge blockbuster of gaming for many years after its graphics became outdated. Its all about gameplay, not graphics. Luckily your game has both. This is your time to shine :D
I have many ideas just need the data and playtesting environment to work in. If you would like to work with me you can reach me here:
Email:
Mdiesel4747@yahoo.com
If you want my skype or steam name I will gladly give it to you.
Cheers!
Comments
lol, whats that???
Neither does having just registered in the forum and go like "yeah, YOU contact ME for my services", besides being only an idea guy (who are never needed in a game studio since everyone there has ideas).
"I have played video games for my entire life, so I am perfectly suited for the videogame industry."
Not sure if troll or serious.
Please go back to the end of the queue and await your turn.
<!--quoteo(post=2040935:date=Dec 6 2012, 12:25 PM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Dec 6 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"I have played video games for my entire life, so I am perfectly suited for the videogame industry."
Not sure if troll or serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe he is serious, theres simply to much effort in it for a troll.
lol, whats that???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you're implying that he was using wallhacks, you could say that for (literally) every single wallbang in every single game that supports them. clearly there's someone behind that wall, yknow? not like he's going to show failed shots that miss.
-You are essentially dictating the alien's strategy for them, removing the need for their comm other than to place structures.
-cloak is fine, there are ways to counter cloaking, like using team work. FYI you automatically walk when you are cloaked.
-Now you are dictating how players should be stuck to certain abilities, not everyone has the same gameplay style. Stop trying to get people to play the same as you. As for the speed of gameplay, cloak is a valuable tool in marine containment, which allows the alien comm to spread throughout the map.
-This is an asymmetrical game, that astoundingly you are destroying bit by bit.
-So the first upgrade we pick, we should be stuck with for the duration of the game?
2. Gameplay
-I shouldn't have to explain how this is a terrible idea.
- new spectator views is the only thing I agree with you so far.
-Admins have such a command, sv_reset. While players are sent to the RR after a round, they can discuss in teamspeak or vent or w/e their next strategy.
-Probably on their to-do list, behind the list of balance changes.
-Sensitivity settings are loaded once from file on game load, which is why this doesn't happen. Why are you watching the bar when using the console command?
-Lag compensation is already in the game, just needs to be tweaked, which once again they are working on.
-I have no trouble picking up weapons, and your suggestion hardly changes anything. You still press a button to change out weapons, only now you might pick back up your old weapon, taking more time.
-As someone said earlier, get the feel for it, less HUD clutter.
-bunnyhopping shows increased skill? Jumping as it is makes you wisely choose when to dodge, not jump around like a lunatic.
-You can move backwards as well as you can move forwards? That is a silly idea.
-Again, you are trying to circumvent how to wisely use your abilities.
-I could care less about this. Wait are you one of those people that binds the mouse wheel to fire their weapon?
-From your previous suggestions, I would rather you stayed away from the res system.
Your post was too long/ unorganized. So like others I did not take it very seriously.