Worst engine?
hartraft
Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72468Members
Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72468Members
<!--quoteo(post=2044118:date=Dec 12 2012, 12:59 PM:name=Inf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Inf @ Dec 12 2012, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having played this game since its release, I can honestly say I'm disappointed. This is by far the worst game engine that has ever been designed, with game constantly crashing, horrible gameplay, and an overall lazy approach. It shows that you people have wasted 6 years of your life and our expectations to deliver this turd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112812" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112812</a>
I would disagree, definitely hasn't been a waste.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112812" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112812</a>
I would disagree, definitely hasn't been a waste.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Possibly not but I was unsure if Inf post would be seen as it is in a fairly low traffic section. I'm sure there would be those who would agree with Inf though.
I think I just saw trucks driving through buildings as if they weren't there. 0.o
Yes it needs optimisation, yes it has bugs, yes it can crash. What you're describing is the release of just about every other game engine out there that's been worked on by a much larger and financially backed studio.
Yes it needs optimisation, yes it has bugs, yes it can crash. What you're describing is the release of just about every other game engine out there that's been worked on by a much larger and financially backed studio.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The recommended requirements for the game aren't even running smoothly for everyone, and they are regressing performance in subsequent patches due to inadequate testing. The software engineers here are cringing at major design decisions made long ago, and a few of us knew that they'd get into this kind of situation with such a small team choosing to write their own engine. The lack of communication compared to beta time is frustrating, and some of us are left with an unplayable game until the performance gets back to B231 levels.
So while people are frustrated and may not comprehend the problems at hand, there are those of us that work in the same industry and have come to expect better from UWE from their past awesomeness and standards. Generalising paying customers to 'ignorant idiots' with '8 year old computers' just makes you seem uninformed of the situation that a lot of us are experiencing.
I'm getting new hardware myself soon, even though my current hardware meets the requirements and is 2 years old. Not all of us are that lucky. The amount of advice telling people to just overclock their machines is ridiculous and signifies a major defect in the game.
Would hate to see what would happen if I tried to create an engine.
I would build something try to run it and then my computer would melt.
I would build something try to run it and then my computer would melt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QWOP engine? :)
I love the engine, it's great, just needs performance tweaks now and she'll be right :)
I wonder what Natural Selection would like like in Cryengine tho :P
So while people are frustrated and may not comprehend the problems at hand, there are those of us that work in the same industry and have come to expect better from UWE from their past awesomeness and standards. Generalising paying customers to 'ignorant idiots' with '8 year old computers' just makes you seem uninformed of the situation that a lot of us are experiencing.
I'm getting new hardware myself soon, even though my current hardware meets the requirements and is 2 years old. Not all of us are that lucky. The amount of advice telling people to just overclock their machines is ridiculous and signifies a major defect in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Perhaps you could offer some assistance to them?
I once wrote a batch file in notepad, I can be of assistance :P
No but honestly, UWE are doing a fantastic job for their size and still have time to come onto the forums and put us at ease when we cry like babies :P
Somehow I don't think my employer would appreciate it :)
I'm sure UWE have got it figured all out, they're smart guys. What they set out to do was ambitious to say the least. I love the game, but its disappointing to see them slip on some of the decisions the armchair devs doubted. It's amazing what they've accomplished with the team that size, but that's just it - a team that size can only do so much. I know they'll fix things over time, but that may be not enough for the end users who bought the game expecting what was promised.
Personally I can't wait until I have a machine that can run this game decently. When it's working, NS2 gives me the same happy experience as NS1, and that's worth me staying around despite my frustration.
it's really just a set of rules. it's not like there's some singleplayer campaign
I'm a computer science student. I'll concede choosing to build an engine from scratch for an FPS game was an odd choice. The ability to work with Lua the way you can in NS2 is very nice, and it probably made the development of NS2 more painless than it would have been if it had been built in Source or UT, even with Lua hooks. However, we can all identify there's some clear downsides we're suffering with now. The inability to have moving brushes or props the player can interact with, performance issues, weird glitches with things like the netcode. A more professionally developed engine (UWE is a professional company, but it's not the "norm" to solo write an FPS engine) would have fewer of these issues, and more of the issues cleaned up purely through exposure uncovered in other projects.
At the end of the day however, all of us are fans. Spark works. We are not owed a different engine. If Flayra and Max made the decision to use spark entirely because it means they didn't have to learn source or UT modding, that's fine, it's not our place to demand otherwise. We have no right to the game working any better than it does work for us, we have no right to it working well at all, we had the choice to vote with our dollars or not vote with our dollars. If the UWE team entertain our contributions and suggestions at this point, it's just because they're being nice to us, not because they have any obligations to do so. It's meaningless to question a decision made so long ago now, when there is no "fix" that this channel of dialog can possibly bring.
It's pathetic to come on here and be bitter as if you are owed something extra from what was already a gigantic effort for the UWE team, and done very well all things considered. You paid maybe 40 bucks, maybe 25. You can maybe add a few hundred hours of play to that, maybe more if you came from NS1. Flayra had already paid his life savings and the majority of his work hours for the last 10 years. His investment still is, and always was MUCH bigger than yours. His work to continue improving the game will never be because you're being a ###### to him and he's afraid of you. It will be because he loves this game.
It's not trivial to just port a full working game from one engine to another. Especially not to fix a handful of minor bugs. That line of discussion is futile and ridiculous.
If you're having issues, it doesn't mean everyone else is.
Some of you have the modern PC gamer attitude of believing you should be able to run a game at 1920x1080 just because that's what size your monitor is. How about lowering the resolution, turning off SSAO, etc. If it still doesn't run smoothly then it's a minor bug that will be fixed.
If you're having issues, it doesn't mean everyone else is.
Some of you have the modern PC gamer attitude of believing you should be able to run a game at 1920x1080 just because that's what size your monitor is. How about lowering the resolution, turning off SSAO, etc. If it still doesn't run smoothly then it's a minor bug that will be fixed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. It isn't.
This is the same attitude that persisted throughout the beta, but at least then it was understandable. Now people still have the attitude of "it will be fixed" or "its just a bug". <b>It isn't a bug</b>. Its simply a case of asking more of a computer than it is capable of.
My game currently runs at around 20 FPS in all out combat. During the pre 200 patches, it ran at 20 FPS in all out combat. During the post 200 patches, pre release, it ran at 20 FPS during all out combat. No slight rendering improvements will change this. In order for this game to be considered playable by the gaming community at large, the performance would need to be tripled.
What people didn't understand during beta, and what they don't seem to understand now, is that <b>optimization will not yield this</b>. It isn't going to happen. Thinking that is the equivalent of expecting a wrench alone to completely fix a totaled motor vehicle. Its not going to happen.
Oh, and the idea that "not everyone is having issues". Rest assured. Anyone with less than a 2.8 CPU is having issues. The wonder stories you hear about performance improving massively overnight? Ye, those are people with 3.5 overlocked monsters who were getting screwed over by some small graphical detail that was addressed. Everyone who doesn't meet the insane CPU requirements right now is having issues.
Looking at the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines" target="_blank">list of game engines</a>, quite a few companies have made their own engines, including several with the C++ and lua combo of the Spark engine. What UWE has done isn't out of the ordinary, but the distance they've come with such a small team is pretty extraordinary.
Also, I'm a PC gamer largely because I like to play games out on the edge. If I only wanted well-performing games of the generic shooter variety, I'd play console games.
almost no one here is responsible for the dates. nor anyone will have a say to make UWE use an available engine. they made the decision. we paid the money. of course, we have the right to whine. what is even worse, the company knows their plan. they know how much budget they have. they know how much manpower they have. they know what kind of skill level they have. but then they give us a feeling that they didnt factor all those in and went onto a ambitious project. oh, you think i am gonna be grateful that, "oh glad you didnt make the truck racing game"?. this is just completely moral hazard.
someone remember that they promised us a port of ns1 to ns:source?
Also, I'm a PC gamer largely because I like to play games out on the edge. If I only wanted well-performing games of the generic shooter variety, I'd play console games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The distance they have come is absolutely extraordinary,and I don't think you will find any reasonable member of these forums claiming otherwise.
Out of curiosity, which of the engines listed in the wiki article above use LUA for their core gameplay scripting? For example, blizzard use LUA in WOW but only for UI elements. You will also find many mobile games etc. scripted in LUA. But I don't know of many high performance PC games that use LUA for core gameplay development.
I'd be interested to know of games that have been implemented on LUA and perform well.
That might be true, but who aside from hardcore-fans will stick so long with a game which runs poorly or not even at all on several machines? I wouldn't take the average fanboi (no offense!) as granted. The game received an overall good feedback from the magazines and sold well at the days after release but the overall number of <i>playing</i> customers declines. 6 months are still 6 months, ... actually, the game should run well at release at shortly after at least but you cannot expect the customers to wait half a year until they can finally enjoy what they've bought.
And all you blind fan boys make me sick.
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