Important part of why NS2 is failing...
Brock9
Join Date: 2012-12-16 Member: 175292Members
Join Date: 2012-12-16 Member: 175292Members
I've been thinking about the reasons ns2 has been failing and the population dying so rapidly and I think it goes beyond the really poor optimization that greatly limits the playbase, netcode issues, etc.
At the heart of ns2 is a weak dynamic of boring skulk play while the aliens wait to get cool higher lifeforms and over powered but difficult marine play that usually loses on pubs. Skulks stink vs decent marines and it's no fun to play them. So, most of the entertainment on aliens comes from waiting for something cooler. This is a bad dynamic and it's easy to see why alien teams disconnect all the time.
They need to make some way for the aliens to be more enjoyable if they want their game to make it 12 months. What are some fixes?
At the heart of ns2 is a weak dynamic of boring skulk play while the aliens wait to get cool higher lifeforms and over powered but difficult marine play that usually loses on pubs. Skulks stink vs decent marines and it's no fun to play them. So, most of the entertainment on aliens comes from waiting for something cooler. This is a bad dynamic and it's easy to see why alien teams disconnect all the time.
They need to make some way for the aliens to be more enjoyable if they want their game to make it 12 months. What are some fixes?
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Comments
I dont feel like skulk play is boring at all
Not sure if you know this but aliens win 66% of the time atm so marines are way underpowered(might be due to skill might be due to map issues)
I would suggest playing gorge if you feel skulk is boring
Lerk is a great choice as well and you can evolve into that lifeform almost instantly after the game starts
The cost of alternative units is way high compared to the rate of personal resource acquisition.
IMO, the pre-onos units need a significant price cut.
It would be nice if you could grab something like a lerk every 3 deaths or so...
Even if they were nerfed to compensate, that'd be ok with me... at least there'd be more varierty.
-scheherazade
In my opinion, the heart of ns2 has a weak dynamic of boring marine play while the team waits to get better weapons and toys and impossible to hit, difficult skulks with overpowered onos, that usually loses on pubs. Marines stink vs decent aliens and it's no fun to play them. So, most of the entertainment on Marines comes from waiting for something cooler. This is a bad dynamic and it's easy to see why Marine teams disconnect all the time.
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I dont feel like skulk play is boring at all
Not sure if you know this but aliens win 66% of the time atm so marines are way underpowered(might be due to skill might be due to map issues)
I would suggest playing gorge if you feel skulk is boring
Lerk is a great choice as well and you can evolve into that lifeform almost instantly after the game starts<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
gorge isn't fun in ns2. You get to build 3 crappy towers and then you can't do anything for the rest of the game. It's not exciting and fun like ns1.
Marines only lose on pubs because of how bad the performance is and because cloak is ridiculous. If you have a real great comp you slaughter all skulk challengers. It's not even interesting for the skulks. They have no chance.
Anywho, as far as boosting the playcounts.... well it will all come down to some god patches and new maps.
Marines only lose on pubs because of how bad the performance is and because cloak is ridiculous. If you have a real great comp you slaughter all skulk challengers. It's not even interesting for the skulks. They have no chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a TON more to playing gorge than that
Build up hives/harvestors to grow faster by spraying them
Heal other players
Clog off choke points
Bile from vents or anywhere else(bile might be OP)
Slide around like a boss
Good skulks are hard as hell to kill even with 100fps
Goal of aliens is to waste the marines time until they have the upgrades they need
Marines only lose on pubs because of how bad the performance is and because cloak is ridiculous. If you have a real great comp you slaughter all skulk challengers. It's not even interesting for the skulks. They have no chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you think that's all there is to do as a gorge you're a terrible gorge.
And really, the game isn't "dying". Even if the population is falling off alot it's because it's a niche game, it's just not going to be for everyone. Hell I'm still having fun and my server has no problems staying populated. As long as that's the case and the dev's keep making improvements, I'm just fine with it.
Many people would blame me on being too negative and side bias, but I hope my feedback can help improve game for other players.
I read a lot complains on low performance e.t.c. Mast say - this is not my case. Game running smoothly, and no serious problems so far.
The reason of my negative experience with this game is simple - balance. As you may understand, I visiting public games mostly, and for the first few days was sure - this game is "survival" for humans. Only thing I was not sure if you have to stand for XXX time, or score YYY kills. Those thoughts were enforced by the fact, that all games in first few days were lost by marines. So, how was I surprise to read, that marines could win too!!! But in most cases it looks like "lottery win" chance. I haven't count win/loss in games, but think it is around 20/80 to aliens favour of course. Absolutely obvious balance problem.
This is not game that I will spend hours on, just hour or so. I am not planning to join any teams e.t.c. I was looking for fast few rounds game, but if you want to play marines, you need to be in team, most of public games for marines is just total disappointment. Hope you can fix it for future, because other then balance this game is great.
Thanks for reading this.
Anyway, time to see how this thread inevitably develops and how many people misspell "dying".
Many people would blame me on being too negative and side bias, but I hope my feedback can help improve game for other players.
I read a lot complains on low performance e.t.c. Mast say - this is not my case. Game running smoothly, and no serious problems so far.
The reason of my negative experience with this game is simple - balance. As you may understand, I visiting public games mostly, and for the first few days was sure - this game is "survival" for humans. Only thing I was not sure if you have to stand for XXX time, or score YYY kills. Those thoughts were enforced by the fact, that all games in first few days were lost by marines. So, how was I surprise to read, that marines could win too!!! But in most cases it looks like "lottery win" chance. I haven't count win/loss in games, but think it is around 20/80 to aliens favour of course. Absolutely obvious balance problem.
This is not game that I will spend hours on, just hour or so. I am not planning to join any teams e.t.c. I was looking for fast few rounds game, but if you want to play marines, you need to be in team, most of public games for marines is just total disappointment. Hope you can fix it for future, because other then balance this game is great.
Thanks for reading this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you jump in the command chair at all?
A marine team is overly reliant on a good commander who can make the most of the derp that is available.
A marine team is overly reliant on a good commander who can make the most of the derp that is available.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you totally right. Unfortunately it is probably hard to find good marine commanders in public servers.
Well, you do not have to take criticism so personal. That is first. Second, I believe bad response is better then no response. Think - if every person living game, would express his reasons behind that, how much information would it provide to developers! Third, I think my post is more positive for developers, then not. Game is done on good level. Some minor performance issues - but nothing serious for sure (at least for me). And balance game little bit more is not that much of a problem. Isn't it positive? But yes, I mast agree - I could provide more suggestions.
Few replays before it was told, that 66% of all rounds end up in aliens favour. I think percentage of aliens wins on public servers is higher. But anyway - I think developers can see this situation. So, not sure what you mean under <i>constructive</i> criticism.
For suggestions - I can give some ideas, but think they would be "row" and "noobish" for sure. Anyway - Invisibility. If there are no enemies to shoot at, so what's the point to play? This is FPS and you need something to shoot at. Not good feature.
From my experience you need 1.5 marine to kill skulk. If he bights you from invisibility and already at your feet, 1 skulk vs 2 marines might be right estimation. So, it is not "fair play" from my point of view. Increase damage for automatic rifle (not shotgun)?
Lerk (or whatever you call flying beast) is very powerful. It can release poison cloud, bight hard enough and shoot from a distance. I think this unit is ok, but shooting rate might be lower.
Again - those suggestions probably are noobish, but I like this game and wish all best to developers and community. Just saying that from noob point of view, game is not balanced and feels ... not honest for "human" side.
Well, at least you read it. Thank you. Actually haven't finish watching Borat - remarkably dumb movie. But to each his own.
I notice I only win as marines when other players have my back. Sometimes I see one skulk kill 3 marines in a row. I mean cmon how do 3 guys let one skulk get them and I see this a lot. But when you have top tier teammates you can win so easily. All about the aim and evasive manuvers.
The game isn't failing. You are. L2P OR GTFO
It's hard to say if the game is failing, but these are just two of the many points that actively work against making new players stick around. The playerbase does seem pretty low judging by what I've seen and the huge amounts of empty servers.
L2P OR GTFO isn't going to help anyone.
People bought the game and will play it for fun. There is no level progression system that drip feeds players news toys and pats them on the back every time they play.
This is good as it means people playing NS2 want to play it and won't simply come in to boost. The fact you can search servers and find a near full 48 man and around 10+ full 24 man servers at any time of day suggests its not doing that bad.
Skulk play wise half of it is learning that the levels and maps have plenty of nice hiding spots which let skulks get the drop on Marines. Also if you're having issues with Skulk play then simply play as a support / scout. Use your parasite dart to mark marines ahead of where your team is to let your team know they are coming and as such ambush them. People seemingly under estimate how useful having a skulk act to mark targets is.
NS2 is a very Old school kind of game, the kind that's missing a lot these days and a lot of new gamers just can't take it. The game requires you to want to get better with no incentives other than being able to see how much better you perform in a game which a lot of players don't realise hence they quit while with other games they stick round for just one more upgrade, not realising they're getting better at the game too.
People bought the game and will play it for fun. There is no level progression system that drip feeds players news toys and pats them on the back every time they play.
This is good as it means people playing NS2 want to play it and won't simply come in to boost. The fact you can search servers and find a near full 48 man and around 10+ full 24 man servers at any time of day suggests its not doing that bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What elitist babble! We need more DEPTH to the game! As is, there aren't enough GUNS! Add dual wield LMG's, maybe a tactical crossbow to snipe Onos from a distance or at least some a red dot sight or something. Big FAIL, UWE, big fail!
secondly, marine's aren't op, they are up atm, in public games this is only even more true than in competetive, actually, in competetive play alien and marines are quite even, aliens might be slighty better due the higher win rate.
But to my point, marine's are underpowered in public games because :
1. marine's need a LOT more teamplay than aliens, ofcourse aliens needs teamplay too but far less than marines, if marines doesn't play as a team, aliens don't NEED teamplay to win, they win by nature, BUT if marine's however has teamplay, aliens also needs teamplay to overcome them ( rushing bases at right times mostly ), i can take solo marine out of the game 95% of the time in 1v1 skulk vs marine, but when it's 2v2 it's more like 50% chance to win, if it's 6v6 aliens most of the time loses the fight.
2. marine's has higher learning curve, there is no recoil in LMG and you have to hit deadcenter with shotgun, this makes so simple thing as shooting very difficult to MASTER, and to be effective marine you need to learn mastering aiming as marine. You also need to work as a team the same time.
I've seen countless sequels fall into the same trap of disappointing hardcores, but not appealing to casuals enough.
There is depth to it that's the point. Its not elitist babble to say people want to play the game for fun. For some that fun is in getting better. I don't need some shiny Gold plated gun and pink striped ghillie suit suit as an incentive to play.
Honestly this seems like a troll post really as does the game really need gimmicks ?
the weapons are functional and fill a roll and aren't designed rough making you look cool. Essentially you're the Marines in the film Aliens, you're not Duke Nukem and Master chiefs secret love child.
Considering this is an indie game and the first release of the studio I can see this game being improved a fair bit over time. Also the fact there even is a learning curve will put plenty of people off. Then to say its trying to appeal to casuals when there's no obvious pandering like pink striped ghillie suit unlocks is a bit unfair to the game.
Game is great and has a long life ahead of it.
For a development team of 5-6, a graphical engine written by pretty much 1 person, being extensively moddable as it is, and a "budget/indie" game that cost $25 on release, this is a freakin' priceless gem.
There are quirks and problems, yes. It will get better eventually. Give it a year or two.
I'm having lots of enjoyment with it as is; and it should only get better from here.
If you expect it to be as successful as counter-strike was in 1999, I can tell you right now that it's a bit naive, for a lot of reasons.
Ok, here is an appendum: lol, :), \\irony out.
I'm in total agreement with this: the game is fun, the game is far from being dead, the game balance is not a game breaker, skulk is the most fun thing to play in any mp fps, unlocks suck, the engine is impressive, UWE rocks! And many more.
I just didn't feel like contributing in a constructive manner to such a stale topic.