Cyst Spam tactic
statikg
Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Fix please</div>I'm not sure if this is really prevalent in pubs yet but I've seen it a couple times as well as all the time now in competitive play and in my opinion it should be nerfed. Not necessarily because its overpowered but because it results in bad game play and exacerbates performance problems.
We have had the discussion many times about why ns2 is not supposed to be players vs buildings and this is exactly that scenario except worse then its ever been in ns2. I don't have any fun combating a persistent alien commander cyst spamming the ###### out of my location and if you get there after the cysts have matured thats even worse.
Beyond this, if an alien commander has successfully done this to a couple of areas on the map, say goodbye to performance for anyone who only has boarder line computers, that many cysts on the map really hurts.
I would suggest a hard cap of cysts allowed to be in range of another cyst or maybe a hard cap of cysts allowed to be built in the same spot in 1 minute or something like that.
Again I'm not suggesting this tactic is OP and of course you CAN stop it, but is it making game play better or worse? I would say definitely worse.
I suspect some people are going to respond by saying that at least its something for the alien commander to do, but I don't think its worth it to slightly improve the alien commander experience by messing up everyone elses.
We have had the discussion many times about why ns2 is not supposed to be players vs buildings and this is exactly that scenario except worse then its ever been in ns2. I don't have any fun combating a persistent alien commander cyst spamming the ###### out of my location and if you get there after the cysts have matured thats even worse.
Beyond this, if an alien commander has successfully done this to a couple of areas on the map, say goodbye to performance for anyone who only has boarder line computers, that many cysts on the map really hurts.
I would suggest a hard cap of cysts allowed to be in range of another cyst or maybe a hard cap of cysts allowed to be built in the same spot in 1 minute or something like that.
Again I'm not suggesting this tactic is OP and of course you CAN stop it, but is it making game play better or worse? I would say definitely worse.
I suspect some people are going to respond by saying that at least its something for the alien commander to do, but I don't think its worth it to slightly improve the alien commander experience by messing up everyone elses.
Comments
If used properly, it is very effective. If the alien comm can tie up/distract marines killing cysts along with preventing them from building - it allows aliens more time to expand and harass other areas.
While I personally HATE it when it is used against me, it is a valid tactic. Much like the early skulk harassment in the opening game, cysting into the marine base/expansions is effective during the mid/end game.
However, this can be countered by simply being aware of your surroundings and killing the baby cysts immediately. Of course on pubs, many players simply ignore cysts coming into the base/expansion.
As far as having a limit on cysts because they affect the server performance - if it gets to that point, marines have most likely lost already and it's time to recycle/F4.
If the alien comm has enough res to be spamming cysts like that, they most likely have a res advantage.
One nerf I would like to see is unconnected cysts take damage more quickly. Either through the time it takes for them to take damage or the damage from marines. I feel that fully grown unconnected cysts should take about 1/2 or 2/3 the time to take down as fully grown connected ones.
<!--quoteo(post=2048074:date=Dec 19 2012, 03:57 PM:name=t0fu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (t0fu @ Dec 19 2012, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One nerf I would like to see is unconnected cysts take damage more quickly. Either through the time it takes for them to take damage or the damage from marines. I feel that fully grown unconnected cysts should take about 1/2 or 2/3 the time to take down as fully grown connected ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oddly I have suggested this before as it seems like cutting a cyst chain doesn't have nearly the same impact as a power node going down. I mean sure its harmful but its what 1 second for the alien com to repair it and barely anything takes damage in that time
Not more cloaks please. Cysts already get the advantage over power nodes of variable positions and easier to replace. Cloaking them with only scan to uncloak them would cause a real headache
I assume it means throwing down lots of cysts in an area to secure it with infestation. If a marine-owned or contested room is left empty for 20 seconds you can fill the room, and cysts gain HP over time so it can take a very long time to clear them out.
Nope, having low hp make them easy to kill. It make everything more clear and cure headaches by structuring the game around "cyst killing moments" and "non-cyst killing moments" that would help public play (not having people stopping at each cysts when pushing somewhere). For power nodes: <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125921&view=findpost&p=2046691" target="_blank">http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index....t&p=2046691</a>
I'm not pulling this out of my ass btw, it was tested during the beta and it works better than the current implementation.
prevented marines from setting up a base and they wasted ammo on the cysts.
and than my aliens attacked.
no base set up and they were reloading or had only half a mag.
just keep pressing that A button with a nutrien mist here and there.
but it costs alot...so no nerf needed.
However, the major drawback is performance....
In my topic Ironhorse just commented saying:
<!--quoteo(post=2031881:date=Nov 22 2012, 05:02 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 22 2012, 05:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cysts have always killed performance for a long time..
Its a known issue but unfortunately theres no quick fix.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also, having around 300+ cysts on map will crash the server.
very true one lick of flame and the cyst is dead
Nevertheless, it is a very annoying and cheap tactic. Yet on the other hand, marines have a couple of those too (see arcs and etc.), so it's interesting to see where this will go.
This does not change the fact though its really frustrating to know that its impossible for you to cap rts on the map or in some locations because the aliens are spamming cysts.
One thing to note is that after aliens get 2ndhive,leap,bilebomb,blink and 2 chambers they don't really need anymore tres, the rest of the tres is expendable. That extra res will end up in cyst/crag/hive spams or egg drops.
Don't forget that you can always build a forward sentry (just one will suffice) to keep any and all cysts at bay. If alien comm is going to spend tres to troll an area, then you better be prepared to spend tres to counter it. There's no excuse as you can build the sentries on creep.
Don't forget that you can always build a forward sentry (just one will suffice) to keep any and all cysts at bay. If alien comm is going to spend tres to troll an area, then you better be prepared to spend tres to counter it. There's no excuse as you can build the sentries on creep.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If aliens managed to force marines to use res in turrets or flamethrower in these situations they will get a huge advantage since it means less pressure on their own rts. But this is more of a issue in competitive games than public, a small one but still a frustrating one.
Did the enemy commander spam 20 cysts inside your marine-controlled hive location? Travel a short distance outside that room in the direction of their hive and kill 1 or 2 cysts and you'll have broken the entire group of them, which will either result in 20 wasted rez for the aliens or more than 20 wasted rez if they spam them where you're camping (and 2-shotting cysts as they pop up with your pistol.)
The only change which I think makes sense for cysts is increasing cooldown length in lower population games. Lower population games reduce marine construction capabilities, but not alien construction capabilities, which is one of several balance problems impacting rounds which are 6v6 and smaller. Increasing the cooldown of cysts in smaller games would be a good step towards better balance (and a tweak to build times would probably also be worth looking into.)
Take a look at this:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125442" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=125442</a>
Exactly this.
I've had one JP/Flamethrower marine repeatedly clear out most of the cysts on one side of the map then phase to the other side and do the same.
Really threw the team off balance with just one guy doing it. He got killed a time or two, but was able to retrieve his flamethrower with a JP pretty quick. He was good, don't get me wrong, but it isn't hard to do this even with low amounts of skill. Just don't over extend before you switch area's.
But i'm assuming if they are cyst spamming into your main base the game is already lost by then.