<!--quoteo(post=2048049:date=Dec 19 2012, 08:02 AM:name=Brainmaggot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brainmaggot @ Dec 19 2012, 08:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's bad marine commanders and bad marine players that cause that. Nothing or barely anything to balance here.
Why am I so confident? Because I've commanded these players and been under the command of these atrocious commanders.
Marine players are way too passive in the start of games and a lot of the times just way too bad at shooting and moving.
Move along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very well said. Many many pub players have not come from very fast paced games such as Quake3 or Unreal Tourney that require the aim to be there. Many have come from COD/BF that are slow and give you a lotta time to aim. They haven't yet developed what I like to call the Railgun mouse flick. Some may know what I'm talking about, being able to spin 180 degrees and land that perfect shotgun shot with a simply mouse flick. I call it the railgun flick because many of my teammates including myself developed our aim playing quake2/quake3 using the railgun. I have routinely taken down lerks with 2 or 3 shots from a shotgun (at any level of weap upgrades).
The other thing is the movement, again these players from COD/BF do not know how to move in a fast paced FPS. Shuckin'n'jivin'n'dodgin' is as important as aim. If you cant dodge attacks - you're as good as dead anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=2048075:date=Dec 19 2012, 08:58 AM:name=Live_Feed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Live_Feed @ Dec 19 2012, 08:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bites feel awful to land again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear ya. Between 233 and 234 it feels like the shotgun spread is a little off. Not a ton, it just "feels" off a little.
Wonder if there was an 'undocumented fix' to the glancing bites and shotgun spreads. Last week there were some pretty in depth discussions regarding the sg spread here.
holy crap my horrible laptop that was getting 12~18 fps on averge (pretty much unplayable unless your the designated base builder/gorge) Is now at a whopping 31 fps average! And its an i3 lol! Great patch update!
<!--quoteo(post=2048103:date=Dec 19 2012, 07:01 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Dec 19 2012, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why haven't there been any significant balance changes since release? Surely some are in order.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At this point I'm guessing they're holding the balance changes until the January feature patch. Enough stuff is being added that it makes more sense to target the balance work there than to nitpick about current balance that people are more or less used to right now.
There's also the possibility that marine problems right now are a result of hitreg and performance, in which case it might not be the right move to make balance changes for it.
<!--quoteo(post=2048067:date=Dec 19 2012, 07:36 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Dec 19 2012, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ask yourself what country you are from, and if you should maybe reconsider which languages you want to profess knowledge in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would I do that? Your post clearly demonstrated a hilarious lack of understanding of the post you were responding too. Seems like now your just mad. :(
the biggest balance buff for marines would be the ability to actually aim. multiple structures and players in one room during a firefight? oh yes mouse respond half a second later please.
<!--quoteo(post=2047904:date=Dec 18 2012, 10:30 PM:name=current1y)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (current1y @ Dec 18 2012, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1..though I think only a 'eject comm" really needs to be addressed. Not sure what other various ways you are talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always hope not many people read these, but
If someone joins and leaves the smaller team, while people are joining, some servers auto forfeit, so if a troll spams jointeamone or jointeamtwo at the start, the game will just keep forfeiting due to imbalance
<!--quoteo(post=2048081:date=Dec 19 2012, 09:11 AM:name=t0fu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (t0fu @ Dec 19 2012, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is very well said. Many many pub players have not come from very fast paced games such as Quake3 or Unreal Tourney that require the aim to be there. Many have come from COD/BF that are slow and give you a lotta time to aim. They haven't yet developed what I like to call the Railgun mouse flick. Some may know what I'm talking about, being able to spin 180 degrees and land that perfect shotgun shot with a simply mouse flick. I call it the railgun flick because many of my teammates including myself developed our aim playing quake2/quake3 using the railgun. I have routinely taken down lerks with 2 or 3 shots from a shotgun (at any level of weap upgrades).
The other thing is the movement, again these players from COD/BF do not know how to move in a fast paced FPS. Shuckin'n'jivin'n'dodgin' is as important as aim. If you cant dodge attacks - you're as good as dead anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And where are these super human snap shot heroes? Cause in public and Competitive it is 65-35 for aliens. I am still thinking, if you need to be a super human like you to win there is a problem with balance. I played a few matches as marines (all lost) we played well, there where 2-3 from us, who had better kill ratio than the aliens, still we where loosing. I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad. On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough. Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.
I regularly, and that's more than 50% mind you, win marine games when I command. Commanders need to step up and take their responsibility, get your marines pushing and don't ever go on defence in the first 5 - 10 minutes of the game. If you can't attack because your players can't aim, you might as well surrender, but if more often than not it's just a matter of marines playing too conservatively.
I'm not claiming there are no imbalances, quite on the contrary, and I sincerely hope they for example make marine play a little more forgiving by nerfing the alien tech expansion rate or whatever, but I do believe the stats misrepresent the actual issues at hand. There is an imbalance but it's not nearly as large as these stats are making it out to be, basically.
<!--quoteo(post=2048189:date=Dec 19 2012, 01:40 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Dec 19 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And where are these super human snap shot heroes? Cause in public and Competitive it is 65-35 for aliens. I am still thinking, if you need to be a super human like you to win there is a problem with balance. I played a few matches as marines (all lost) we played well, there where 2-3 from us, who had better kill ratio than the aliens, still we where loosing. I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad. On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough. Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I never said there were no balance issues. However, I disagree with you on the degree to which things are imbalanced.
2. Onos SHOULD win against a single marine nearly every time.
3. "super human snap shot heroes"? LOL - There are quite a few of us that can aim and move well enough to take on 3-5 skulks at once and walk out victorious. Nothing super human about it. 5-6 shells = 4-5 dead skulks
4. Marines should almost always have a higher KD ratio than aliens - this comes with the expendable nature with the skulk. (as marines I hover around a 3:1 KDR and as aliens I'm about a 1-1.5:1 KDR)
Very cool. Great job UWE! Fixes AND a festive theme?! Keep up work of this quality and you will survive. This is what I like to see, and what separates generic FPS and console games from PC games.
<!--quoteo(post=2048189:date=Dec 19 2012, 03:40 PM:name=hapi18)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hapi18 @ Dec 19 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And where are these super human snap shot heroes? Cause in public and Competitive it is 65-35 for aliens. I am still thinking, if you need to be a super human like you to win there is a problem with balance. I played a few matches as marines (all lost) we played well, there where 2-3 from us, who had better kill ratio than the aliens, still we where loosing. I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad. On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough. Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> YEAH UWE WHAT'S THE DEAL? How come a Marine can't kill an Onos with a single LMG and Pistol mag? If the game isn't balanced 1v1 it isn't balanced at all. If I have to work with my teammates to kill the only Kharaa lifeform that takes more than one Marine to kill then what's the point in even playing?
Also, please add headshots, prone, and scopes to Marine rifles.
<!--quoteo(post=2048228:date=Dec 19 2012, 03:41 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 19 2012, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->YEAH UWE WHAT'S THE DEAL? How come a Marine can't kill an Onos with a single LMG and Pistol mag? If the game isn't balanced 1v1 it isn't balanced at all. If I have to work with my teammates to kill the only Kharaa lifeform that takes more than one Marine to kill then what's the point in even playing?
Also, please add headshots, prone, and scopes to Marine rifles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2048210:date=Dec 19 2012, 04:37 PM:name=t0fu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (t0fu @ Dec 19 2012, 04:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. "super human snap shot heroes"? LOL - There are quite a few of us that can aim and move well enough to take on 3-5 skulks at once and walk out victorious. Nothing super human about it. 5-6 shells = 4-5 dead skulks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think there is as much of a disparity in power as there is in accessibility. Sure, killing stuff as marine is easier for new players - aim, spray&pray. But the important thing that makes a marine a good marine is the soldier mentality. Marines have to play much more for the team than aliens, be more selfless and ready to sacrifice themselfes. They also have to obey the orders of the commander and not talk back. The most common scenario for me when losing as marine: Game going well, marines push get pg at 2nd hive and push it. Fierce fighting. Sadly, half the marine team is wandering around on the other side of the map so the hive doesnt go down and the aliens get the upper hand. Most new marine players just dont understand that they have to follow orders. Sadly, the game does not lead them towards realising that. In ns1, it was pretty clear: You do what the comm says, he gives you toys. With pres, that incentive is gone. Im not calling for abolishing pres but the commander could really use some other mechanic to reward good marines. (Yes the commander can still hand out weapons, but he needs his res for more important things, and the game is balanced for players to use their res for their gear)
He's not completely wrong, he just wants to make it sound like it's the greatest thing he's accomplished in his life.
Assuming the aliens are competent as well, don't misinterpret what he's saying and think that superpros(lol) <b>always</b> come out on top when outnumbered. I, like most others, don't care much about NS2's comp scene <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(is there one for NA or is it the same people from the beta?)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->, but I know in NS1 it was expected for top level marines to regularly kill three skulks wit the LMG.
And still BF3 runs better on my mobile system. Well OK, i can't complain on my 6 core i7 running a 680 gfx but for a game like NS2 it takes to much resources for what you visually get. You got enough money by now for a n1 engine? ;)
Comments
Why am I so confident? Because I've commanded these players and been under the command of these atrocious commanders.
Marine players are way too passive in the start of games and a lot of the times just way too bad at shooting and moving.
Move along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very well said. Many many pub players have not come from very fast paced games such as Quake3 or Unreal Tourney that require the aim to be there. Many have come from COD/BF that are slow and give you a lotta time to aim. They haven't yet developed what I like to call the Railgun mouse flick. Some may know what I'm talking about, being able to spin 180 degrees and land that perfect shotgun shot with a simply mouse flick. I call it the railgun flick because many of my teammates including myself developed our aim playing quake2/quake3 using the railgun. I have routinely taken down lerks with 2 or 3 shots from a shotgun (at any level of weap upgrades).
The other thing is the movement, again these players from COD/BF do not know how to move in a fast paced FPS. Shuckin'n'jivin'n'dodgin' is as important as aim. If you cant dodge attacks - you're as good as dead anyway.
I hear ya. Between 233 and 234 it feels like the shotgun spread is a little off. Not a ton, it just "feels" off a little.
Wonder if there was an 'undocumented fix' to the glancing bites and shotgun spreads. Last week there were some pretty in depth discussions regarding the sg spread here.
That is all. Merry xmas.
That being said, merry christmas and looking forward to 235 after the new year!
Invincible crags say hi.
There's also the possibility that marine problems right now are a result of hitreg and performance, in which case it might not be the right move to make balance changes for it.
Why would I do that? Your post clearly demonstrated a hilarious lack of understanding of the post you were responding too. Seems like now your just mad. :(
You can still be fully cloaked while moving fast as a lerk though. :(
It's not the marines that need buffing, it's the marine players.
(disclaimer: I primarily play marines)
I wish you all a merry christmas!
I always hope not many people read these, but
If someone joins and leaves the smaller team, while people are joining, some servers auto forfeit, so if a troll spams jointeamone or jointeamtwo at the start, the game will just keep forfeiting due to imbalance
The other thing is the movement, again these players from COD/BF do not know how to move in a fast paced FPS. Shuckin'n'jivin'n'dodgin' is as important as aim. If you cant dodge attacks - you're as good as dead anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And where are these super human snap shot heroes? Cause in public and Competitive it is 65-35 for aliens. I am still thinking, if you need to be a super human like you to win there is a problem with balance. I played a few matches as marines (all lost) we played well, there where 2-3 from us, who had better kill ratio than the aliens, still we where loosing.
I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad.
On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough.
Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.
I'm not claiming there are no imbalances, quite on the contrary, and I sincerely hope they for example make marine play a little more forgiving by nerfing the alien tech expansion rate or whatever, but I do believe the stats misrepresent the actual issues at hand. There is an imbalance but it's not nearly as large as these stats are making it out to be, basically.
I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad.
On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough.
Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I never said there were no balance issues. However, I disagree with you on the degree to which things are imbalanced.
2. Onos SHOULD win against a single marine nearly every time.
3. "super human snap shot heroes"? LOL - There are quite a few of us that can aim and move well enough to take on 3-5 skulks at once and walk out victorious. Nothing super human about it. 5-6 shells = 4-5 dead skulks
4. Marines should almost always have a higher KD ratio than aliens - this comes with the expendable nature with the skulk. (as marines I hover around a 3:1 KDR and as aliens I'm about a 1-1.5:1 KDR)
Be patient, it'll get there eventually.
I played my 3rd match with aliens, i was with an onos and cant hit the marine ( i know i am noob with aliens) he fired all of his ammo from the rifle, when i realise i still have 1000+ health. then he started shoot me with the pistol, i just stand there knowing he cant kill me. when he come with the axe i just smash him. Not fun. It is sad.
On the other side you can kill the double exo with the most basic skulk if you are lucky or Pro enough.
Yes there are serius problems with the balance and metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YEAH UWE WHAT'S THE DEAL? How come a Marine can't kill an Onos with a single LMG and Pistol mag? If the game isn't balanced 1v1 it isn't balanced at all. If I have to work with my teammates to kill the only Kharaa lifeform that takes more than one Marine to kill then what's the point in even playing?
Also, please add headshots, prone, and scopes to Marine rifles.
Also, please add headshots, prone, and scopes to Marine rifles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And where is our "+10 against Onos" space axe?
Sure....
The most common scenario for me when losing as marine: Game going well, marines push get pg at 2nd hive and push it. Fierce fighting. Sadly, half the marine team is wandering around on the other side of the map so the hive doesnt go down and the aliens get the upper hand.
Most new marine players just dont understand that they have to follow orders. Sadly, the game does not lead them towards realising that. In ns1, it was pretty clear: You do what the comm says, he gives you toys. With pres, that incentive is gone. Im not calling for abolishing pres but the commander could really use some other mechanic to reward good marines. (Yes the commander can still hand out weapons, but he needs his res for more important things, and the game is balanced for players to use their res for their gear)
He's not completely wrong, he just wants to make it sound like it's the greatest thing he's accomplished in his life.
Assuming the aliens are competent as well, don't misinterpret what he's saying and think that superpros(lol) <b>always</b> come out on top when outnumbered. I, like most others, don't care much about NS2's comp scene <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(is there one for NA or is it the same people from the beta?)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->, but I know in NS1 it was expected for top level marines to regularly kill three skulks wit the LMG.