Cancelling a holo structure as commander gives 75% of the cost back...
CrushaK
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167195Members, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">...but having it destroyed by aliens gives 100% back?</div>What's the logic behind that?
The structure has not been built yet, it is merely an indicator for marines that they should build one there. It gets instantly destroyed by touching aliens or infestation. Why does the hologram cost basically 25% of it's full price even if it's worth nothing at this point? This mechanic basically punishes the commander for accidental misplacements (which can happen pretty easy if you get a lag spike) because instantly cancelling the hologram will still make him lose resources.
Though even more ridiculous is that he could cancel it without any costs, if he managed to tell his marines to simply not build that structure and wait for an alien to destroy it, since that would at least give the full price back. For whatever reason that is, because frankly would it make more sense the other way around (enemy intervention on a planned structure should be a punishment and loss for the commander, not a reward as it currently may be).
There are four possible combinations of how the mechanic can work:
<ul><li>Cancelling = 75% refund; destruction = 100% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 75% refund; destruction = 75% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 100% refund; destruction = 75% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 100% refund; destruction = 100% refund.</li></ul>
Currently it seems to be using the one that makes least sense…
The structure has not been built yet, it is merely an indicator for marines that they should build one there. It gets instantly destroyed by touching aliens or infestation. Why does the hologram cost basically 25% of it's full price even if it's worth nothing at this point? This mechanic basically punishes the commander for accidental misplacements (which can happen pretty easy if you get a lag spike) because instantly cancelling the hologram will still make him lose resources.
Though even more ridiculous is that he could cancel it without any costs, if he managed to tell his marines to simply not build that structure and wait for an alien to destroy it, since that would at least give the full price back. For whatever reason that is, because frankly would it make more sense the other way around (enemy intervention on a planned structure should be a punishment and loss for the commander, not a reward as it currently may be).
There are four possible combinations of how the mechanic can work:
<ul><li>Cancelling = 75% refund; destruction = 100% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 75% refund; destruction = 75% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 100% refund; destruction = 75% refund.</li><li>Cancelling = 100% refund; destruction = 100% refund.</li></ul>
Currently it seems to be using the one that makes least sense…
Comments
"Idiot"?
Idiot is one who fails at understanding something logic, evident.
Here we're talking about a flawed mechanic, which isn't obvious at ALL, unless one has marine commanding experience (which most people don't).
I confess I didn't know this and I just learned it.
I would have never expected it, honestly. I think there should be NO refund at all on destroyed/infested holos.
Sometimes I feel it's good to kill these ghost structure while other times it's better to leave.
If I see a PG ghost structure, I'm going to hit because that means the comm now has to redrop a new PG and if he's not paying attention that could cost the marines some valuable time and possible long enough for reinforcement skulks to show up before the marines can get the new PG up.
But res towers are ones that should be left alone so that it's technically wasted res for marines.
Better solution for that is to prevent the comm from dropping ghost structures outside a certain radius of any marine or MAC.
How is it actually?
Losing holo = 75% back
Cancelling holo = 100% back
Recycling a built structure = how much % back ?
Or is it different?
Speaking of confusion: I think what this game lacks is a little more obviousness. Proper fog of war, and little things like this.
I wouldn't know how to find out these numbers, for example, without basically sabotaging a pub game: sell all RTs to stop income, and then check the numbers when cancelling/losing/recycling.
There should be a better way (don't tell me to check any LUA source code :-).
I believe a dedicated "obviousness patch" would help this game a lot.
If it is as OP says I agree that need to be changed. I'm sure there was a good idea behind that earlier but as it turns out it doesn't work.
I'ts a basic flaw, if the player perceives that the holo can be destroyed then it shouldn't punish the player. There are in this case no "idiots",
just players reacting to the game mechanics.
Is it logical that the aliens disregard a human structure just because it's in holo state? I think not. A "kill all humans, bite their stuff, protect the hive"-lifeform
wouldn't care jack sh1t if it was just a blueprint or not.
It's not even worthy of further discussion, fix this, UWE. (put it to vote @ google moderator) IF that is the case with destroyed holos...
Better solution is to require an active power node to drop structures.
Not entirely accurate
Fully built and undamaged structure gives back 75% <i>(rounds up so an armory will give 8)</i>
A blue, unbuilt structure will give back the same amount, but will give 100% if an alien poofs it by running to close to it
Aliens can destroy blue unbuilt, structures with ranged attacks or xenocide and you will get back nothing
If you sell an unbuilt structure that is no longer blue you will get next to nothing
Likewise for selling severely damaged structures
I believe if you sell a fully built resource tower immediately if one skulk is attacking it you will only get back 4 res
It is almost never worth nano shielding a structure to sell it
Save that 5 res
You can't retract the building you dropped, willingly, without taking some amount of hit res. You drop it, it stays, tough luck if it was a bad drop on your part. If the aliens have the presence of mind to not touch it, but you can't build it, then it is your loss and their gain.
Furthermore, if you changed it to where marines lost res instead of gaining it back when aliens touched a ghosted structured, it'd be a huge issue. It's incredibly easy to knock down that structure, should you really lose any res for ONE brushing touch within a 5 foot radius? It can happen by sheer accident rather than any intention, more often than not.
As aliens, you have the choice of getting rid of a ghosted structure and giving them the resources back but removing their potential presence or letting it sit there and be available for when marines are in better position. Also, you can gamble that you take out the marines AFTER they start building it, but before they finish, and then waste their res, permanently. It's a calculated risk/reward in that scenario.
Finally, Gorge spit and Lerk spikes(and Skulk parasite, though that'd take forever) can attack a ghosted building down and eventually destroy it, causing res loss. Another layer of choices for the aliens to make.
It may be counter-intuitive, strange, silly, dumb, illogical, whatever you want... But it works just fine, adds a whole new layer of strategy (to those who care to actually evaluate their options) and doesn't harm/benefit one team more than the other.
Not entirely accurate
Fully built and undamaged structure gives back 75% <i>(rounds up so an armory will give 8)</i>
A blue, unbuilt structure will give back the same amount, but will give 100% if an alien poofs it by running to close to it
Aliens can destroy blue unbuilt, structures with ranged attacks or xenocide and you will get back nothing
If you sell an unbuilt structure that is no longer blue you will get next to nothing
Likewise for selling severely damaged structures
I believe if you sell a fully built resource tower immediately if one skulk is attacking it you will only get back 4 res
It is almost never worth nano shielding a structure to sell it
Save that 5 res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so, if you touch - they get 100% back
if you parasite - they get 0%?
if you parasite - they get 0%?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
any ranged attack - parasite, spike, spit, etc to last hit then yes they lose all their money
<!--quoteo(post=2048749:date=Dec 20 2012, 01:33 PM:name=Omar - The Wire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omar - The Wire @ Dec 20 2012, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunch of poor complaints about a nuanced strategy. Intentional or not, logical or not, it adds another element.
You can't retract the building you dropped, willingly, without taking some amount of hit res. You drop it, it stays, tough luck if it was a bad drop on your part. If the aliens have the presence of mind to not touch it, but you can't build it, then it is your loss and their gain.
Furthermore, if you changed it to where marines lost res instead of gaining it back when aliens touched a ghosted structured, it'd be a huge issue. It's incredibly easy to knock down that structure, should you really lose any res for ONE brushing touch within a 5 foot radius? It can happen by sheer accident rather than any intention, more often than not.
As aliens, you have the choice of getting rid of a ghosted structure and giving them the resources back but removing their potential presence or letting it sit there and be available for when marines are in better position. Also, you can gamble that you take out the marines AFTER they start building it, but before they finish, and then waste their res, permanently. It's a calculated risk/reward in that scenario.
Finally, Gorge spit and Lerk spikes(and Skulk parasite, though that'd take forever) can attack a ghosted building down and eventually destroy it, causing res loss. Another layer of choices for the aliens to make.
It may be counter-intuitive, strange, silly, dumb, illogical, whatever you want... But it works just fine, adds a whole new layer of strategy (to those who care to actually evaluate their options) and doesn't harm/benefit one team more than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
indeed, intentional is an irrelevant argument - but illogical is not. mechanics need to make sense (for new players). there's nothing that tells a player or how something like this would occur, you don't know about this mechanic until someone tells you or it happens to you. it's just silly
I'm not saying it doesn't work currently, it's just another... "why?" feature that there are way too many of in NS2.