<!--quoteo(post=2049125:date=Dec 21 2012, 12:57 PM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 21 2012, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hope that's Sarcasm as paying 15 Tres for an un armoured easy to destroy structure to that only protects a small area is a bit of a joke when for the same 15 Tres you get Camo which works all over the map, except where the obs is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the exo suit has massive firepower and survivability with absolutely no downsides whatsoever.
<!--quoteo(post=2049125:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:57 AM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 21 2012, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really hope that's Sarcasm as paying 15 Tres for an un armoured easy to destroy structure to that only protects a small area is a bit of a joke when for the same 15 Tres you get Camo which works all over the map, except where the obs is.
you can spot when you reach an obs easily by the blue glow you get when you de cloak, one the blue glow goes and you get the see through camo back on you know your out of obs range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're arguing with me, not against me
My point is that obs needs a little bit of a buff against camo aliens, because as it stands its really just a deterrent unlike scan which is an offensive ability. When an alien notices that he's in range of an obs, he KNOWS that the marines can see him and his cloak is meaningless. Like he's psychic and knows his exact distance to an obs.
I would prefer that the alien does NOT know that he's been decloaked for the marines and that he's a massive target now, whereas the scan stays as it is.
How about having MACs default to a small radius of reveal ? Send a MAC with your squad, it'll keep a *SMALL* area clear around it, offensively more attractive then constant scans.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...
So you basically just want aliens to die?
If a camo alien pounces on a marine he needs 2 direct bites and 1 indirect to kill... (Without para or a1) If a camo alien is revealed by an ob and a player sees him, he will instantly gun him down. The way the game is currently the dmg is a bit bursted initially, so you won't get hit with the first bullet till about 5 more come in... Try and fire less than 5LMG bullets anyways.
You want free kills? off the bat? Not to mention when we know about a Shade, i usually pull out my pistol, as soon as a scan goes we see the aliens and gun them down, but at least then it cost us res and it was obvious to the aliens why it happened. They still complain about it.
I still maintain that against a good marine team camo is the worst choice for a first hive.
However, I can understand people being upset about camo right now when due to the sale many new players are about. I've seen many people say in other threads camo only works against marines who don't adapt and right now there are obviously going to be a lot who don't.
<!--quoteo(post=2049129:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:02 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Dec 21 2012, 11:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the exo suit has massive firepower and survivability with absolutely no downsides whatsoever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly the point really Obs as is, is fine however the issue I have is with the scan cost vs the cost to run camo. As an Obs is required for other stuff but its more of a defensive structure than anything else with an ability you can pay to use in an attempt at offence.
Things should have a down side and Obs being localised in its active protection field and weak makes it the anti shade as shades are weak and give localised cloaking and the offence ability of fake units.
<!--quoteo(post=2049132:date=Dec 21 2012, 12:06 PM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about having MACs default to a small radius of reveal ? Send a MAC with your squad, it'll keep a *SMALL* area clear around it, offensively more attractive then constant scans.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would think my suggestion would not make them offensive items, simply better at defensive. They are still 15 tres and incredibly vulnerable. An offensive scan would be cheaper and better than an offensive obs unless you are planning a drawn out siege, but even then the obs range would mean you are RIGHT next to the hive.
Still, an offensive obs as it is now is exactly the same as an offensive scan, just 5x the cost unless you have to redo scan over and over again.
Don't forget that you need OBs at your TPs anyways, and they beacon. They are far more effective than Shades.
I currently drop an ob and an armory for a major push point, that gets recycled. 75% of 15tres to make sure aliens don't run around with cel killing my RTs, or soak up a bunch of bullets with cara, i'm cool with it.
<!--quoteo(post=2049132:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:06 AM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 11:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about having MACs default to a small radius of reveal ? Send a MAC with your squad, it'll keep a *SMALL* area clear around it, offensively more attractive then constant scans.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...
So you basically just want aliens to die?
If a camo alien pounces on a marine he needs 2 direct bites and 1 indirect to kill... If a camo alien is revealed by an ob and a player sees him, he will instantly gun him down. The way the game is currently the dmg is a bit bursted initially, so you won't get hit with the first bullet till about 5 more come in... Try and fire less than 5LMG bullets anyways.
You want free kills? off the bat?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've suggested before adding a scan / decloaking thing to Arcs. I mean Macs weld and get EMP so why not add it to the Arc which unless set up doesn't really do much for the team. this way it will lead more to people using Arcs and siege weapons and not simply making giant Arc trains for assaults.
<!--quoteo(post=2049130:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM:name=Bellicosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bellicosity @ Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're arguing with me, not against me
My point is that obs needs a little bit of a buff against camo aliens, because as it stands its really just a deterrent unlike scan which is an offensive ability. When an alien notices that he's in range of an obs, he KNOWS that the marines can see him and his cloak is meaningless. Like he's psychic and knows his exact distance to an obs.
I would prefer that the alien does NOT know that he's been decloaked for the marines and that he's a massive target now, whereas the scan stays as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not so much I'd say Obs is fine as it is, the problem is considering it as a counter to Camo an upgrade and not shades which is it closer to a counter to.
I will say the idea is good though not letting aliens know they've lost cloak. Though I can see it really hammering some alien players who will not realise and run in like mad.
It does make some kind of sense too as with a shade you can't tell ones about other than the squelch of infestation when you can see none under foot.
<!--quoteo(post=2049118:date=Dec 21 2012, 12:46 PM:name=Bellicosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bellicosity @ Dec 21 2012, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I think the only change that needs to happen is that obs does not decloak the aliens. Scan is fine, because they know its there anyways by the massive ping noise and effect. That and the alien doesn't 'know' its coming. He can be sneaking along and then bam, WELCOME TO THE PARTY.
Obs, on the other hand, loses its effectiveness if aliens know its there and that they are visible. Marines should still see them like normal (on screen and on the map) and still get that nice (O) reticule on them, but the alien has no idea they have a massive target on their face and that their cloak means nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I think it would be good idea and would make sense that aliens don't get notified about the obs presence or make them choose whether to have this neural wavedetector upgrade, that would be counter against obs, or not.
That would mean that also aliens would sometimes feel that they were surprised by sneaky forward obs.
And why does khammander need to get notified where com is scanning? It immediately gives away marines position and plans. Aliens have so much better map awareness I think. Stop the alien bias please :F.
ARCs are expensive end-game assault weapons and not as fun for your team. I'd rather get my team upgrades than spent 15tres for the arc upgrade, and another 15tres for every assault (arcs can't get away as easily as say a mac could)
Maybe give ARCs a larger AOE of reveal similar to MACs but on a bigger scale (Still under OB scale tho imo) ?
Although, Shade hive really does not get used often enough to really justify all this lolol.
<!--quoteo(post=2049144:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:23 AM:name=Zenu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zenu @ Dec 21 2012, 11:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually I think it would be good idea and would make sense that aliens don't get notified about the obs presence or make them choose whether to have this neural wavedetector upgrade, that would be counter against obs, or not.
And why does khammander need to get notified where com is scanning? It immediately gives away marines position and plans. Aliens have so much better map awareness I think. Stop the alien bias please :F.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually the reason for that is to allow the Kham to deploy shade ink and make the scan almost totally useless.
<!--quoteo(post=2049145:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:24 AM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, MACs are cheaper and more mobile...
ARCs are expensive end-game assault weapons and not as fun for your team. I'd rather get my team upgrades than spent 15tres for the arc upgrade, and another 15tres for every assault (arcs can't get away as easily as say a mac could)
Maybe give ARCs a larger AOE of reveal similar to MACs but on a bigger scale (Still under OB scale tho imo) ?
Although, Shade hive really does not get used often enough to really justify all this lolol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Arcs not deployed have their armour which makes them a bit tougher and you'd only need to send say 1 with a group of Marines to be effective. also then you can deploy and use it more as an individual siege weapon with the Marines better able to defend it due to Camo not working near it. essentially it makes sure they can counter Camo but they don't get something that becomes a requirement.
I mean a Mac able to repair, EMP and decloak would make Macs a must have which I'm rather against. However adding it to a less used item would create debate / choice as to what to go for as each would bring their own things to the table
Edit: Sorry my bad on the two posts running My internet didn't update the page so I didn't realise
I just don't see people sending ARCs out at that point, slow as ###### too. People already send out a MAC if they know what they are doing, good for rebuilding RTs, welding armor, with medpacks makes for a nice assault force. If the aliens have a shift or crag up, it counters things nicely.
I'd like to try it, although if it is ARCs, and it does work passive, non-deploy, it would still need to be a small area to not be completely OP imo.
<!--quoteo(post=2049154:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EMP is extra and almost nobody ever gets it lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do. Onos hate that thing man. EMP and some flame throwers and shotguns really cripple an Onos to the extent a you can easily defend 3 Onos rushes without the use of Exo suits
<!--quoteo(post=2049154:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't see people sending ARCs out at that point, slow as ###### too. People already send out a MAC if they know what they are doing, good for rebuilding RTs, welding armor, with medpacks makes for a nice assault force. If the aliens have a shift or crag up, it counters things nicely.
I'd like to try it, although if it is ARCs, and it does work passive, non-deploy, it would still need to be a small area to not be completely OP imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again I'm just thinking choice wise mainly. I know people already send Macs hence I'd rather not simply add another reason to send them.
I never thought about EMP against onos, but it certainly makes alot of sense, hell might even drop a lerk or two.
I onos'd once without adren and it was a very different pace.
Would people really see that as reason enough to send ARCs out though ? First one would be 30tres +15tres each time, mind as well just build OBs at that point...
It would be interesting to see aliens retreat from an oncoming arc or mac since they know it will reveal them... go around, and munch the marines from behind ^ ^
Maybe add infra red upgrade for the marines. Purchasable much like the welder and stuff, but maybe from the robotics bay or something. Gives alien type flashlight vision, but in infrared.
In every 'nerf camo' thread, the only words I seem to be reading are 'Marines command is <i>hard</i>, please make it easier for me'.
I mean, that <i>is</i> what people are asking for right? No one denies that there is an effective counter. The only question is cost and player ability to execute the strategy.
If that doesn't say L2P, I don't know what does.
Legitimately, you could say playing against Camo isn't fun <i>for you</i>. I can understand that. But to claim it's OP means you simply haven't seen a Marines team that knows their stuff in action.
Is it hard to be Marines commander? You betcha. Will it be significantly easier with a Camo nerf? In a way, it will. You won't ever need more than two or three scans in any game. (Purely to discover their hive, and even then you can probably make an educated guess without <i>ever</i> scanning.)
The only reason to build an Obs in a nerfed camo universe? Phase gates, same as now.
I don't think camo is a problem really, it used to be merely a minor inconvenience when killing skulks cause I could see them pretty easily most of the time. Now it's actually useful, I don't particularly like using it, as I do a lot better without it unless I'm a fade. The only think I might want see changed about it is the lack of sound. I know since the aliens are walking they aren't making much sound, but silence really loses it's thrill with camo the way it is. There should be some kind of que that there is a cloaked alien walking up to you is all I'm saying.
The complaint on this thread is flawed. It doesn't take long for a marine commander to adjust his/her tactic to build radars, thus rendering the camouflage useless. This is perhaps the result of playing on rookie servers. Shade should always be the last hive because of this.
<!--quoteo(post=2050281:date=Dec 23 2012, 04:53 PM:name=nsguy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nsguy @ Dec 23 2012, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The complaint on this thread is flawed. It doesn't take long for a marine commander to adjust his/her tactic to build radars, thus rendering the camouflage useless. This is perhaps the result of playing on rookie servers. Shade should always be the last hive because of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So the extra 15 obs cost per location means its fine ?
<!--quoteo(post=2049049:date=Dec 21 2012, 03:16 AM:name=Keldorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keldorn @ Dec 21 2012, 03:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From a fun standpoint (I know that camouflage tends to be either useless or either challenging like this), it would be a cool thing to have handscanners that only scans a very limited arc in front of a marine. You could have this in combination with a pistol. Like scanner in left hand, pistol in right. Sadly I don't think we'll see this new feature anytime soon. :)
That or replace camouflage with focus/scent of fear/whatever and give camouflage to the fade as a passive upgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea except with knife and scanner. And the scanner only reduces the camo transparency to the individual marine. Aliens have to watch where marines look and gives them a chance to move or attack. At which point camo is no longer a huge advantage.
Its an out of the box solution to this problem... if it is a problem.
Comments
And the exo suit has massive firepower and survivability with absolutely no downsides whatsoever.
you can spot when you reach an obs easily by the blue glow you get when you de cloak, one the blue glow goes and you get the see through camo back on you know your out of obs range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're arguing with me, not against me
My point is that obs needs a little bit of a buff against camo aliens, because as it stands its really just a deterrent unlike scan which is an offensive ability. When an alien notices that he's in range of an obs, he KNOWS that the marines can see him and his cloak is meaningless. Like he's psychic and knows his exact distance to an obs.
I would prefer that the alien does NOT know that he's been decloaked for the marines and that he's a massive target now, whereas the scan stays as it is.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...
So you basically just want aliens to die?
If a camo alien pounces on a marine he needs 2 direct bites and 1 indirect to kill... (Without para or a1) If a camo alien is revealed by an ob and a player sees him, he will instantly gun him down. The way the game is currently the dmg is a bit bursted initially, so you won't get hit with the first bullet till about 5 more come in... Try and fire less than 5LMG bullets anyways.
You want free kills? off the bat? Not to mention when we know about a Shade, i usually pull out my pistol, as soon as a scan goes we see the aliens and gun them down, but at least then it cost us res and it was obvious to the aliens why it happened. They still complain about it.
However, I can understand people being upset about camo right now when due to the sale many new players are about. I've seen many people say in other threads camo only works against marines who don't adapt and right now there are obviously going to be a lot who don't.
Exactly the point really Obs as is, is fine however the issue I have is with the scan cost vs the cost to run camo. As an Obs is required for other stuff but its more of a defensive structure than anything else with an ability you can pay to use in an attempt at offence.
Things should have a down side and Obs being localised in its active protection field and weak makes it the anti shade as shades are weak and give localised cloaking and the offence ability of fake units.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would think my suggestion would not make them offensive items, simply better at defensive. They are still 15 tres and incredibly vulnerable. An offensive scan would be cheaper and better than an offensive obs unless you are planning a drawn out siege, but even then the obs range would mean you are RIGHT next to the hive.
Still, an offensive obs as it is now is exactly the same as an offensive scan, just 5x the cost unless you have to redo scan over and over again.
Don't forget that you need OBs at your TPs anyways, and they beacon. They are far more effective than Shades.
I currently drop an ob and an armory for a major push point, that gets recycled. 75% of 15tres to make sure aliens don't run around with cel killing my RTs, or soak up a bunch of bullets with cara, i'm cool with it.
Obs work perfectly fine if they are mostly defensive. Thats what they are for, with the beaconing and AOE reveal... why try and make them offensive things ?
MACs on the other hand...
So you basically just want aliens to die?
If a camo alien pounces on a marine he needs 2 direct bites and 1 indirect to kill... If a camo alien is revealed by an ob and a player sees him, he will instantly gun him down. The way the game is currently the dmg is a bit bursted initially, so you won't get hit with the first bullet till about 5 more come in... Try and fire less than 5LMG bullets anyways.
You want free kills? off the bat?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've suggested before adding a scan / decloaking thing to Arcs. I mean Macs weld and get EMP so why not add it to the Arc which unless set up doesn't really do much for the team. this way it will lead more to people using Arcs and siege weapons and not simply making giant Arc trains for assaults.
<!--quoteo(post=2049130:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM:name=Bellicosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bellicosity @ Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're arguing with me, not against me
My point is that obs needs a little bit of a buff against camo aliens, because as it stands its really just a deterrent unlike scan which is an offensive ability. When an alien notices that he's in range of an obs, he KNOWS that the marines can see him and his cloak is meaningless. Like he's psychic and knows his exact distance to an obs.
I would prefer that the alien does NOT know that he's been decloaked for the marines and that he's a massive target now, whereas the scan stays as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not so much I'd say Obs is fine as it is, the problem is considering it as a counter to Camo an upgrade and not shades which is it closer to a counter to.
I will say the idea is good though not letting aliens know they've lost cloak. Though I can see it really hammering some alien players who will not realise and run in like mad.
It does make some kind of sense too as with a shade you can't tell ones about other than the squelch of infestation when you can see none under foot.
Obs, on the other hand, loses its effectiveness if aliens know its there and that they are visible. Marines should still see them like normal (on screen and on the map) and still get that nice (O) reticule on them, but the alien has no idea they have a massive target on their face and that their cloak means nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I think it would be good idea and would make sense that aliens don't get notified about the obs presence or make them choose whether to have this neural wavedetector upgrade, that would be counter against obs, or not.
That would mean that also aliens would sometimes feel that they were surprised by sneaky forward obs.
And why does khammander need to get notified where com is scanning? It immediately gives away marines position and plans. Aliens have so much better map awareness I think. Stop the alien bias please :F.
ARCs are expensive end-game assault weapons and not as fun for your team. I'd rather get my team upgrades than spent 15tres for the arc upgrade, and another 15tres for every assault (arcs can't get away as easily as say a mac could)
Maybe give ARCs a larger AOE of reveal similar to MACs but on a bigger scale (Still under OB scale tho imo) ?
Although, Shade hive really does not get used often enough to really justify all this lolol.
And why does khammander need to get notified where com is scanning? It immediately gives away marines position and plans. Aliens have so much better map awareness I think. Stop the alien bias please :F.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the reason for that is to allow the Kham to deploy shade ink and make the scan almost totally useless.
ARCs are expensive end-game assault weapons and not as fun for your team. I'd rather get my team upgrades than spent 15tres for the arc upgrade, and another 15tres for every assault (arcs can't get away as easily as say a mac could)
Maybe give ARCs a larger AOE of reveal similar to MACs but on a bigger scale (Still under OB scale tho imo) ?
Although, Shade hive really does not get used often enough to really justify all this lolol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Arcs not deployed have their armour which makes them a bit tougher and you'd only need to send say 1 with a group of Marines to be effective. also then you can deploy and use it more as an individual siege weapon with the Marines better able to defend it due to Camo not working near it. essentially it makes sure they can counter Camo but they don't get something that becomes a requirement.
I mean a Mac able to repair, EMP and decloak would make Macs a must have which I'm rather against. However adding it to a less used item would create debate / choice as to what to go for as each would bring their own things to the table
Edit: Sorry my bad on the two posts running My internet didn't update the page so I didn't realise
I just don't see people sending ARCs out at that point, slow as ###### too. People already send out a MAC if they know what they are doing, good for rebuilding RTs, welding armor, with medpacks makes for a nice assault force. If the aliens have a shift or crag up, it counters things nicely.
I'd like to try it, although if it is ARCs, and it does work passive, non-deploy, it would still need to be a small area to not be completely OP imo.
I do.
Onos hate that thing man.
EMP and some flame throwers and shotguns really cripple an Onos to the extent a you can easily defend 3 Onos rushes without the use of Exo suits
<!--quoteo(post=2049154:date=Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM:name=Csae)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Csae @ Dec 21 2012, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just don't see people sending ARCs out at that point, slow as ###### too. People already send out a MAC if they know what they are doing, good for rebuilding RTs, welding armor, with medpacks makes for a nice assault force. If the aliens have a shift or crag up, it counters things nicely.
I'd like to try it, although if it is ARCs, and it does work passive, non-deploy, it would still need to be a small area to not be completely OP imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again I'm just thinking choice wise mainly. I know people already send Macs hence I'd rather not simply add another reason to send them.
I onos'd once without adren and it was a very different pace.
Would people really see that as reason enough to send ARCs out though ? First one would be 30tres +15tres each time, mind as well just build OBs at that point...
It would be interesting to see aliens retreat from an oncoming arc or mac since they know it will reveal them... go around, and munch the marines from behind ^ ^
I mean, that <i>is</i> what people are asking for right? No one denies that there is an effective counter. The only question is cost and player ability to execute the strategy.
If that doesn't say L2P, I don't know what does.
Legitimately, you could say playing against Camo isn't fun <i>for you</i>. I can understand that. But to claim it's OP means you simply haven't seen a Marines team that knows their stuff in action.
Is it hard to be Marines commander? You betcha. Will it be significantly easier with a Camo nerf? In a way, it will. You won't ever need more than two or three scans in any game. (Purely to discover their hive, and even then you can probably make an educated guess without <i>ever</i> scanning.)
The only reason to build an Obs in a nerfed camo universe? Phase gates, same as now.
EDIT: Punctuation.
So the extra 15 obs cost per location means its fine ?
That or replace camouflage with focus/scent of fear/whatever and give camouflage to the fade as a passive upgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea except with knife and scanner. And the scanner only reduces the camo transparency to the individual marine. Aliens have to watch where marines look and gives them a chance to move or attack. At which point camo is no longer a huge advantage.
Its an out of the box solution to this problem... if it is a problem.