I think most are in agreement in that marines need to be more aggressive to win. However I don't think that this natural tendency towards defense and hesitation comes from some preconceived notion of "aliens v. humans" via 40K, AvP, etc.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...
<!--quoteo(post=2051224:date=Dec 26 2012, 12:32 AM:name=Tova)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tova @ Dec 26 2012, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think most are in agreement in that marines need to be more aggressive to win. However I don't think that this natural tendency towards defense and hesitation comes from some preconceived notion of "aliens v. humans" via 40K, AvP, etc.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly.
I think Fana is right. We probably could change the system so marines would need to play equally agressive as aliens, but with their defense advantage it would be a bad change.
@LJFHutch: Don't give up. The influx of new players is responsible for this big skill gap between teams. Give it some time. Learn the game. Ask other players for some instructions. Most are very happy to help you get into the game. When the new players have learnd how the game works, the games will be more even again. Until than, change the server to get into a game with more equally skilled teams.
<!--quoteo(post=2051799:date=Dec 27 2012, 01:37 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Dec 27 2012, 01:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Fana is right. We probably could change the system so marines would need to play equally agressive as aliens, but with their defense advantage it would be a bad change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the requirement is that the marines have to keep moving and repositioning. Usually it means forcing aggressive play, but there may be some situations where you can build that mobile play around more defensive area control too.
Great to see this sparked some discussion other than the usual "buff lmg damage x%" or whatever.
<!--quoteo(post=2051224:date=Dec 26 2012, 07:32 AM:name=Tova)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tova @ Dec 26 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think most are in agreement in that marines need to be more aggressive to win. However I don't think that this natural tendency towards defense and hesitation comes from some preconceived notion of "aliens v. humans" via 40K, AvP, etc.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To a degree this "aliens yanking marines around" is true, but again only at low levels. Here too the "intuitive decision making" comes into play, because as alien you can, to a degree, tunnelvision and just chew stuff, as long as the marines aren't being assertive enough. Whereas the marines should be able to make decisions such as "I will trade that one RT that is being chewed in order to take down this alien RT, as it's relatively more valuable to them than our RT is to us". Therefore again the marines are expected to dictate play - push and the aliens have to defend because alien RTs are more valuable. Don't push, and you may retain a few RTs but it doesn't help you win.
Funnily this is quite similar to how Starcraft 2 metagame panned out, at least before. I haven't followed the scene for a while, but the theme in terran vs zerg was very much zerg trying to get away with as much economy as possible, while the terran has to try and do multi pronged attacks and force the zerg to overreact in defence. The same applies in competitive NS, the marines really have to stretch the alien team around the map, do well cordinated multi pronged attacks, etc. while the aliens try to manage with as little resources used defensively as possible (resources meaning time + players + actual resources).
TvZ was also a god awful matchup that no Terran player actually liked playing for the simple fact that if they didn't rush them they automatically lost. It limited them to a small handful of builds which could be scouted out easily enough and countered.
Still that was just one of 6 matchups in SC2. Here there only is the one matchup, that forces Marines strictly to one overall build and one style of play. How is this exciting to both the Marines and Aliens, forced into just one build overall?
<!--quoteo(post=2050889:date=Dec 24 2012, 06:38 PM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Dec 24 2012, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've said this from day 1. Gameplay should be swapped, with Marines needing to turtle in order to build enough upgrades while Aliens are constantly on the attack instead of Marines needing to force the Aliens on the defense 100% of the time in order to have a chance to win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong, both teams need to be aggressive (you know, the whole theme of the game, survival of the fittest). the more aggressive team with the better strats/players will always win regardless of what side they are on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not really too late, since it's just a matter of increasing how quickly tres is gained for Marines. Marines need their team to make themselves vulnerable for extended periods of time and the Commander can't do anything without Marines, so it would make sense to not force them to spread out in order to remain competitive; while the Khammander is self-sufficient and the Alien team can do whatever they want, pretty much. So they can always be on the offensive; with the Khamm occasionally jumping out of the seat to join in an attack while the Comm can't do that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, aliens cant do what they want, alien teams should almost always be on the offensive. almost because the gorge is the old true defense "class" they have. aliens are supposed to be keeping marines as close to their starting base as possible while their khamm expands. and vice versa. hold more area for longer periods of time and you win. the problem most marine coms run into is not being aggressive after taking territory. they take 1 or even 2 hives and then do NOTHING. if youre holding half the map, keep some builders/guards at key points, throw up a com chair and pgs' and manage pushes to keep aliens in their hive while pushing out upgrades. this is a huge reason why i dont like k/d displayed on the scoreboard. seeing k/d discourages marine players from running out when their com wants them to basically suicide stall or take territory, knowing that most likely some will die. same goes for alien teams tho, skulks dont attack often enough and your team will lose.
<!--quoteo(post=2051224:date=Dec 26 2012, 12:32 AM:name=Tova)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tova @ Dec 26 2012, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think most are in agreement in that marines need to be more aggressive to win. However I don't think that this natural tendency towards defense and hesitation comes from some preconceived notion of "aliens v. humans" via 40K, AvP, etc.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it also takes a good alien team to recognize that the power node is open. this usually happens when marine coms have to babysit pushes and notifs dont really help when the power node is getting chomped.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is this exciting to both the Marines and Aliens, forced into just one playstyle/build overall?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ns2 is an fps/rts hybrid, how would it be exciting to be able to be able to win by doing a rts style turtle build?
There can be different builds / tech routes, but to win both sides will always have to play relativ aggressive. Win important engagements and deny the other team advantages.
You want to have fun in attacker vs defender(the classic marines vs. waves and waves of aliens), or quick high tech games? That can be done, but i will need to be done with mods, and custom maps that fit those scenarios better.
PS: can we stop using sc2 as reference? If anything the only rts games that are somewhat fitting ns2 are wh40k dawn of war 2, and company of heroes. Resources are spread across the map and you need to get out capture and hold them. Requireing you to play agressive from the beginning and get control of big parts of the map, otherwise the enemy team will just get the resource advantage and win in the long run. sc2 is very different.
<!--quoteo(post=2051845:date=Dec 27 2012, 12:22 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 27 2012, 12:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->both teams need to be aggressive (you know, the whole theme of the game, survival of the fittest). the more aggressive team with the better strats/players will always win regardless of what side they are on. ... no, aliens cant do what they want, alien teams should almost always be on the offensive. almost because the gorge is the (only) true defense "class" they have. aliens are supposed to be keeping marines as close to their starting base as possible while their khamm expands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->^^This.
As it stands, the aliens can engage the marines on their side of the map from the very start by nature of their speed. This is why it is so easy to keep marines from expanding, since they are too busy trying to defend what little they have from attack. (at least if the alien team is competent) While marines need to actively secure areas and build, aliens don't need to do any such thing. The Khamm will do all building on his own, and he just needs the aliens to keep the marines busy while he does it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyway in summary: aggression usually = victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yep.
<!--quoteo(post=2051845:date=Dec 27 2012, 05:22 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 27 2012, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyway in summary: aggression usually = victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To an extent this is true, as either team can throw the other team off by being assertive enough. However, the pressure to cause economic damage is on marines, as should both teams sit on half a map for the first portion of the game, kharaa would end up better off. Hence the point made on marines often just sitting on 1-2 "capped" hive locations.
So yes, often optimal strategy is to be offensive as either team, but in the end kharaa can get away with being reactive and marines have to be more proactive if they want to stand a chance.
<!--quoteo(post=2051864:date=Dec 27 2012, 09:09 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 27 2012, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ns2 is an fps/rts hybrid, how would it be exciting to be able to be able to win by doing a rts style turtle build?
There can be different builds / tech routes, but to win both sides will always have to play relativ aggressive. Win important engagements and deny the other team advantages.
You want to have fun in attacker vs defender(the classic marines vs. waves and waves of aliens), or quick high tech games? That can be done, but i will need to be done with mods, and custom maps that fit those scenarios better.
PS: can we stop using sc2 as reference? If anything the only rts games that are somewhat fitting ns2 are wh40k dawn of war 2, and company of heroes. Resources are spread across the map and you need to get out capture and hold them. Requireing you to play agressive from the beginning and get control of big parts of the map, otherwise the enemy team will just get the resource advantage and win in the long run. sc2 is very different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's being aggressive and then there is rushing. Right now Marines only win with an Egglock around the 7-10 minute mark.
<!--quoteo(post=2051917:date=Dec 27 2012, 09:08 PM:name=KilledByDeath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KilledByDeath @ Dec 27 2012, 09:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now Marines only win with an Egglock around the 7-10 minute mark.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It be interesting if the comm could give buffs that encourage pushing. Like being able to highlight a structure, and then all marines that hit that structure deal more damage, or get more points or something....
spend 5 res to get +20% damage against a target for 10 seconds would be a cool ability.
<!--quoteo(post=2051890:date=Dec 27 2012, 11:54 AM:name=Tark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tark @ Dec 27 2012, 11:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To an extent this is true, as either team can throw the other team off by being assertive enough. However, the pressure to cause economic damage is on marines, as should both teams sit on half a map for the first portion of the game, kharaa would end up better off. Hence the point made on marines often just sitting on 1-2 "capped" hive locations.
So yes, often optimal strategy is to be offensive as either team, but in the end kharaa can get away with being reactive and marines have to be more proactive if they want to stand a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marines shouldnt be sitting on res, as i was saying before. both teams should be aggressive. the problem lies exactly where ive been saying it has for a long time now. when both teams just "sit". the marine teams tech up until they can deal mid range damage at which point alien teams have no choice but to onos because fade and lerk are bad. lerk is getting better but one armory negates any damage done by lerk/fade as it repairs armor now too. alien teams in these cases should never play stagnant wait gameplay. even skulks have the ability to contribute in these cases. hitting res nodes, attacking marine base, etc. this is the khamms fault if the aliens cannot organize an attack. khamm has the ability to see the entire map and organize a strategy that will best help the team given the present attack units, and area the marines control. if youre reading this and you like to play khamm but are frustrated that marines are "op", take a second to think about how many games you let your team sit and idle while marines teched up. most times when an alien team organizes a good attack they will win. MOST times
<!--quoteo(post=2051927:date=Dec 27 2012, 01:39 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Dec 27 2012, 01:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It be interesting if the comm could give buffs that encourage pushing. Like being able to highlight a structure, and then all marines that hit that structure deal more damage, or get more points or something....
spend 5 res to get +20% damage against a target for 10 seconds would be a cool ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they DO give buffs, thats yet another problem that lies on khamms. drifters give area view and area buffs to all aliens in the range of the buff. the kind of buff you want is dumb honestly. marines used to have buffs called catalyst packs, i would like them to return but for some reason they were removed early on.
<!--quoteo(post=2051964:date=Dec 27 2012, 11:44 AM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 27 2012, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->they DO give buffs, thats yet another problem that lies on khamms. drifters give area view and area buffs to all aliens in the range of the buff. the kind of buff you want is dumb honestly. marines used to have buffs called catalyst packs, i would like them to return but for some reason they were removed early on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am referring specifically to marine commanders. Though I feel like alien comms need some way to more actively spend res.
except my proposal is very different than cat packs?
Cat packs buff a single marine against all targets.
Target highlighting would buff all marines against a single target.
One encourages ramboing, the other rewards team play/focus fireing.
just a little different.
Also just calling an idea 'dumb' with out any argument, or even a hint as to why you might think it is dumb is more a reflection on you, than the idea.
<!--quoteo(post=2051974:date=Dec 27 2012, 02:57 PM:name=Katana-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Katana- @ Dec 27 2012, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051974"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am referring specifically to marine commanders. Though I feel like alien comms need some way to more actively spend res.
except my proposal is very different than cat packs?
Cat packs buff a single marine against all targets.
Target highlighting would buff all marines against a single target.
One encourages ramboing, the other rewards team play/focus fireing.
just a little different.
Also just calling an idea 'dumb' with out any argument, or even a hint as to why you might think it is dumb is more a reflection on you, than the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, i dont agree that cat packs encourage rambo. as far as i can tell it didnt in the past. and what purpose would this mechanic serve in game really? if you need a structure taken down then middle click as com and say over mic "shoot that" i dont think marines should get a damage boost for shooting the same thing at the same time. can you imagine how stupidly powerful that would be in a turtle? or against onos?
Comments
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
@LJFHutch: Don't give up. The influx of new players is responsible for this big skill gap between teams. Give it some time. Learn the game. Ask other players for some instructions. Most are very happy to help you get into the game. When the new players have learnd how the game works, the games will be more even again. Until than, change the server to get into a game with more equally skilled teams.
I think the requirement is that the marines have to keep moving and repositioning. Usually it means forcing aggressive play, but there may be some situations where you can build that mobile play around more defensive area control too.
<!--quoteo(post=2051224:date=Dec 26 2012, 07:32 AM:name=Tova)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tova @ Dec 26 2012, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think most are in agreement in that marines need to be more aggressive to win. However I don't think that this natural tendency towards defense and hesitation comes from some preconceived notion of "aliens v. humans" via 40K, AvP, etc.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To a degree this "aliens yanking marines around" is true, but again only at low levels. Here too the "intuitive decision making" comes into play, because as alien you can, to a degree, tunnelvision and just chew stuff, as long as the marines aren't being assertive enough. Whereas the marines should be able to make decisions such as "I will trade that one RT that is being chewed in order to take down this alien RT, as it's relatively more valuable to them than our RT is to us". Therefore again the marines are expected to dictate play - push and the aliens have to defend because alien RTs are more valuable. Don't push, and you may retain a few RTs but it doesn't help you win.
Funnily this is quite similar to how Starcraft 2 metagame panned out, at least before. I haven't followed the scene for a while, but the theme in terran vs zerg was very much zerg trying to get away with as much economy as possible, while the terran has to try and do multi pronged attacks and force the zerg to overreact in defence. The same applies in competitive NS, the marines really have to stretch the alien team around the map, do well cordinated multi pronged attacks, etc. while the aliens try to manage with as little resources used defensively as possible (resources meaning time + players + actual resources).
Still that was just one of 6 matchups in SC2. Here there only is the one matchup, that forces Marines strictly to one overall build and one style of play. How is this exciting to both the Marines and Aliens, forced into just one build overall?
wrong, both teams need to be aggressive (you know, the whole theme of the game, survival of the fittest). the more aggressive team with the better strats/players will always win regardless of what side they are on.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not really too late, since it's just a matter of increasing how quickly tres is gained for Marines. Marines need their team to make themselves vulnerable for extended periods of time and the Commander can't do anything without Marines, so it would make sense to not force them to spread out in order to remain competitive; while the Khammander is self-sufficient and the Alien team can do whatever they want, pretty much. So they can always be on the offensive; with the Khamm occasionally jumping out of the seat to join in an attack while the Comm can't do that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, aliens cant do what they want, alien teams should almost always be on the offensive. almost because the gorge is the old true defense "class" they have. aliens are supposed to be keeping marines as close to their starting base as possible while their khamm expands. and vice versa. hold more area for longer periods of time and you win. the problem most marine coms run into is not being aggressive after taking territory. they take 1 or even 2 hives and then do NOTHING. if youre holding half the map, keep some builders/guards at key points, throw up a com chair and pgs' and manage pushes to keep aliens in their hive while pushing out upgrades. this is a huge reason why i dont like k/d displayed on the scoreboard. seeing k/d discourages marine players from running out when their com wants them to basically suicide stall or take territory, knowing that most likely some will die. same goes for alien teams tho, skulks dont attack often enough and your team will lose.
anyway in summary: aggression usually = victory.
Mobility and speed effectively grant the aliens control the game. If the marines start pushing somewhere, all it takes to relieve that pressure is to run through a few vents and go for a power node or other critical structure. You can think of this strategy like flowing water, they can pull and push the marine team as they please. The environment exists solely for they aliens to exploit. I can't count the number of times I've been with fellow marines moving through the level aggressively only to get pulled one way are they other because some little ankle biter got through somewhere and started dealing damage...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it also takes a good alien team to recognize that the power node is open. this usually happens when marine coms have to babysit pushes and notifs dont really help when the power node is getting chomped.
Ns2 is an fps/rts hybrid, how would it be exciting to be able to be able to win by doing a rts style turtle build?
There can be different builds / tech routes, but to win both sides will always have to play relativ aggressive. Win important engagements and deny the other team advantages.
You want to have fun in attacker vs defender(the classic marines vs. waves and waves of aliens), or quick high tech games?
That can be done, but i will need to be done with mods, and custom maps that fit those scenarios better.
PS: can we stop using sc2 as reference? If anything the only rts games that are somewhat fitting ns2 are wh40k dawn of war 2, and company of heroes.
Resources are spread across the map and you need to get out capture and hold them. Requireing you to play agressive from the beginning and get control of big parts of the map, otherwise the enemy team will just get the resource advantage and win in the long run. sc2 is very different.
As it stands, the aliens can engage the marines on their side of the map from the very start by nature of their speed. This is why it is so easy to keep marines from expanding, since they are too busy trying to defend what little they have from attack. (at least if the alien team is competent) While marines need to actively secure areas and build, aliens don't need to do any such thing. The Khamm will do all building on his own, and he just needs the aliens to keep the marines busy while he does it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyway in summary: aggression usually = victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yep.
To an extent this is true, as either team can throw the other team off by being assertive enough. However, the pressure to cause economic damage is on marines, as should both teams sit on half a map for the first portion of the game, kharaa would end up better off. Hence the point made on marines often just sitting on 1-2 "capped" hive locations.
So yes, often optimal strategy is to be offensive as either team, but in the end kharaa can get away with being reactive and marines have to be more proactive if they want to stand a chance.
There can be different builds / tech routes, but to win both sides will always have to play relativ aggressive. Win important engagements and deny the other team advantages.
You want to have fun in attacker vs defender(the classic marines vs. waves and waves of aliens), or quick high tech games?
That can be done, but i will need to be done with mods, and custom maps that fit those scenarios better.
PS: can we stop using sc2 as reference? If anything the only rts games that are somewhat fitting ns2 are wh40k dawn of war 2, and company of heroes.
Resources are spread across the map and you need to get out capture and hold them. Requireing you to play agressive from the beginning and get control of big parts of the map, otherwise the enemy team will just get the resource advantage and win in the long run. sc2 is very different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's being aggressive and then there is rushing. Right now Marines only win with an Egglock around the 7-10 minute mark.
Not true at all.
spend 5 res to get +20% damage against a target for 10 seconds would be a cool ability.
So yes, often optimal strategy is to be offensive as either team, but in the end kharaa can get away with being reactive and marines have to be more proactive if they want to stand a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marines shouldnt be sitting on res, as i was saying before. both teams should be aggressive. the problem lies exactly where ive been saying it has for a long time now. when both teams just "sit". the marine teams tech up until they can deal mid range damage at which point alien teams have no choice but to onos because fade and lerk are bad. lerk is getting better but one armory negates any damage done by lerk/fade as it repairs armor now too. alien teams in these cases should never play stagnant wait gameplay. even skulks have the ability to contribute in these cases. hitting res nodes, attacking marine base, etc. this is the khamms fault if the aliens cannot organize an attack. khamm has the ability to see the entire map and organize a strategy that will best help the team given the present attack units, and area the marines control. if youre reading this and you like to play khamm but are frustrated that marines are "op", take a second to think about how many games you let your team sit and idle while marines teched up. most times when an alien team organizes a good attack they will win. MOST times
spend 5 res to get +20% damage against a target for 10 seconds would be a cool ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they DO give buffs, thats yet another problem that lies on khamms. drifters give area view and area buffs to all aliens in the range of the buff. the kind of buff you want is dumb honestly. marines used to have buffs called catalyst packs, i would like them to return but for some reason they were removed early on.
I am referring specifically to marine commanders. Though I feel like alien comms need some way to more actively spend res.
except my proposal is very different than cat packs?
Cat packs buff a single marine against all targets.
Target highlighting would buff all marines against a single target.
One encourages ramboing, the other rewards team play/focus fireing.
just a little different.
Also just calling an idea 'dumb' with out any argument, or even a hint as to why you might think it is dumb is more a reflection on you, than the idea.
except my proposal is very different than cat packs?
Cat packs buff a single marine against all targets.
Target highlighting would buff all marines against a single target.
One encourages ramboing, the other rewards team play/focus fireing.
just a little different.
Also just calling an idea 'dumb' with out any argument, or even a hint as to why you might think it is dumb is more a reflection on you, than the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, i dont agree that cat packs encourage rambo. as far as i can tell it didnt in the past. and what purpose would this mechanic serve in game really? if you need a structure taken down then middle click as com and say over mic "shoot that" i dont think marines should get a damage boost for shooting the same thing at the same time. can you imagine how stupidly powerful that would be in a turtle? or against onos?
I have no idea if target highlighting would work, I was just trying to think of game mechanics for commanders to actively encourage team work.