<!--quoteo(post=2051913:date=Dec 27 2012, 12:47 PM:name=VittuLima)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VittuLima @ Dec 27 2012, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope, some games will live forever. Ppl are still playing games like mario1 and and those old pokemons on emulators and ###### :P Im still playing first Settlers from time to time released in 1994 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPwWQ6Q3-FM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPwWQ6Q3-FM</a> :D :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why don't people get that by saying every game will die eventually, in the current context, I was referring to the inevitable decline of sales and multiplayer playerbase of any game.
<!--quoteo(post=2051998:date=Dec 27 2012, 03:41 PM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Dec 27 2012, 03:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why don't people get that by saying every game will die eventuelly, in the current context, I was referring to the inevitable decline of any multiplayer playerbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because this is the internet and anything you write becomes what the reader wants it to say.
The retail sales will make them more than enough money to support the game as long as it really needs to be supported. I don't even know what more than a couple years worth of support for NS2 would look like so I'm not worried about it.
<!--quoteo(post=2051745:date=Dec 27 2012, 05:15 AM:name=Omar - The Wire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omar - The Wire @ Dec 27 2012, 05:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see anyone asking how "Omar - The Wire" is planning to stay financially afloat?
Their company, we've bought into it. We've paid their price for their product. As a company, if they've made enough to stay solvent, how they spend it towards future expansion, profits, markets, etc is their business decision to make. If they haven't made enough money to stay afloat, then it's their decision to secure more financial support going forward via investors/investments or future released or to fold instead... whatever they feel is the best decision for them to make as a business venture.
Wondering about their business acumen, debating whether they're aware of their player drop off etc... initially I'm sure the concern is appreciated, I imagine it becomes insulting after a while. UWE isn't just a bunch of avid, dork programmers scurrying away to bang out a cool game, willy nily. To successfully found a company, keep it afloat for this many years without a steady source of income (pre-orders don't count as a never-finished product would have to be refunded) and launch an innovative, original product on a newly developed platform, that requires an incredible amount of financial savvy.
Furthermore, lets say they profited off this venture already. If in a year their player base was down to 5 people. Wow, that would suck, but cold facts: They made their money. If they want to continue, they approach investors and say "We made A product of B years and made C profit. We can replicate this again on a similar timeline". Round 2 begins.
Fortunately, they're invested in their product, stated they've made enough gains to be around for a long while and have committed to developing this engine for other purposes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The company had to borrow a lot of money to get started. Then they had to pay rent for the office and all the wages for the employees. You figure each guy is making between $50k-$100k and it took them years to get the game released. Even if they made 2.5 mill. on release, I'd be surprised if they made enormous profits. Most companies don't start being really profitable for a few years.
What this really means, the next time they go to make a game, they can go to a major publisher and say, "we made this game with x budget and made y profit." Now they can get an even bigger loan, more marketing, and make an even larger profit.
I wouldn't worry about steam sales possible negative effects. Me and my 7 friends decided to buy this game because the price was so good. There's pretty much 0 chance any of us would've bought it without steam sale.
It turns out that the game is actually pretty good, so now I guess I could pay more if I already didn't have it. :)
UWE has said they have no interest in licensing their engine; that's an entirely different business, and one that requires a LOT of effort (you need to have people dedicated to developing, testing, supporting the engine as a product separate from any game). There are so many other choices on the market, some of them free (even Unreal Engine has a free variant) that I can't see anybody being interested in Spark. It worked for UWE because they needed flexibility beyond what most games require, but few games require that kind of thing.
The way I see it, UWE is going to have gotten most of their money up front from the first few months, and that's probably given the game a year or two of full-time development effort. After that, barring continued high sales (unlikely), they'll probably work on subsequent games, using the NS2 long tail revenue (including future sales, free weekend boosts, cross-promotions, etc) to support a lower amount of dev investment (keep one or two guys working on it to keep it running smoothly).
However, consider this. If UWE's next game uses the Spark engine, which one would assume it would, that means that development on Spark will continue even after it makes sense to invest dev effort in NS2. As long as they continue validating NS2 against newer revisions of Spark, you could continue to see improvements made to NS2 on an engine level beyond what NS2 itself might otherwise support...
<!--quoteo(post=2051998:date=Dec 27 2012, 04:41 PM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Dec 27 2012, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why don't people get that by saying every game will die eventually, in the current context, I was referring to the inevitable decline of sales and multiplayer playerbase of any game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surprisingly, Skulltag doom still has people playing it, and Doom Classic Complete was sold on GoG and is still on sale from time to time on Steam as part of the id software pack. So the game technically still gets sales AND has a playerbase for modders and multiplayer. The game will probably never die until it becomes impossible to run it on current operating systems or it's no longer sold. If id keeps selling doom, people will keep buying it, so technically it will never die if it stays like that.
<!--quoteo(post=2052190:date=Dec 28 2012, 12:16 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 28 2012, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Surprisingly, Skulltag doom still has people playing it, and Doom Classic Complete was sold on GoG and is still on sale from time to time on Steam as part of the id software pack. So the game technically still gets sales AND has a playerbase for modders and multiplayer. The game will probably never die until it becomes impossible to run it on current operating systems or it's no longer sold. If id keeps selling doom, people will keep buying it, so technically it will never die if it stays like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think ID Software would be able to stay afloat financially by the sales of Doom Classic alone at this moment, would they? That's the only point I was trying to make, no game will sell well and keep bringing in the players forever. No point in worrying about it now, just enjoy the game.
I would actually like if we could buy some Skins for Marines and Alien lifeforms/Weapons for a couple of $. Ofc only cosmetical. Killing Floor has done this, and its actually a cool feature if you dislike the standart look of your Marine or XY lifeform.
<!--quoteo(post=2051714:date=Dec 27 2012, 04:32 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 27 2012, 04:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... NS2 hit the Chirstmas sale and it's now the 3 highest selling game on steam again. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I swear I saw it drop in at #2 sometime in the last week, and it put a huge smile on my face.
Either way, UW isn't going anywhere. NS2 is just another step in the company's continued success, and while it is an incredible accomplishment for them, it won't be their last. I'm sure we'll see some good things in the future from UW. Both NS2, and non NS2 related.
<!--quoteo(post=2052334:date=Dec 28 2012, 11:29 AM:name=WitchcraftTheEvertrolling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WitchcraftTheEvertrolling @ Dec 28 2012, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would actually like if we could buy some Skins for Marines and Alien lifeforms/Weapons for a couple of $. Ofc only cosmetical. Killing Floor has done this, and its actually a cool feature if you dislike the standart look of your Marine or XY lifeform.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only bad thing is the game could look a bit of a mess. Sort of how tf2 and their demopan. Subtle would be good. They already did it with the deluxe and black armor. Like Onos armor. Onos horse armor.
<!--quoteo(post=2051788:date=Dec 27 2012, 07:05 AM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Dec 27 2012, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the long term, every game will die, no matter what. No point in worrying about it now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. God damnit, I'm going to LAN 1.04 this weekend to prove a point.
<!--quoteo(post=2051780:date=Dec 27 2012, 07:43 AM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 27 2012, 07:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also on topic of staying a float UWE could just go with the MOBA approach and sell high end skins etc such as a Santa Gorge or something like that with custom animations such as bile bomb throwing exploding mine pies or something<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't really dig that myself. It would starkly contrast with the mood of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=2051714:date=Dec 27 2012, 01:32 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 27 2012, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[edit] vitdom's point has to be reiterated. Indie games don't tend to see the same purchase patterns AAA games do. The lifespan can last far longer than games that "disappear" from the public mindset when they are no longer on the front shelf at Walmart. NS2 hit the Chirstmas sale and it's now the 3 highest selling game on steam again. There's buzz for this game. It's not going to rapidly dissolve as long as there's someone who hasn't tried it yet, but heard good rumors (and there will pretty much always be those people)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minecraft is still selling 45,000 copies a day. Peaking 500,000 copies on Christmas. Good indie games make more than the best AAA games.
<!--quoteo(post=2052753:date=Dec 29 2012, 05:51 AM:name=Kama_Blue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kama_Blue @ Dec 29 2012, 05:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Minecraft is still selling 45,000 copies a day. Peaking 500,000 copies on Christmas. Good indie games make more than the best AAA games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Citation Needed.
<!--quoteo(post=2052753:date=Dec 29 2012, 04:51 AM:name=Kama_Blue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kama_Blue @ Dec 29 2012, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052753"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Minecraft is still selling 45,000 copies a day. Peaking 500,000 copies on Christmas. Good indie games make more than the best AAA games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://minecraft.net/stats" target="_blank">http://minecraft.net/stats</a>
Maybe the non-pc versions sell that much. The PC version is normally around 16k per day or less. When it was hitting big on PC it was getting 4-6k a day.
THey wouldn make a new engine anytime soon for another game.
They might even be able to licens the engine out to other smaller indie devs.
Making another game when you have a solid engine that you know well makes a huge huge difference. Then when you add improves, you can add them to not the new game alone, but also Natural Selection 2.
They should totally consider doing a single player game based on the universe of Natural Selection, i think that would be pretty damn awesome.
Whatever happens, don't ever sell to EA. EA is where game development studios go to die. Seriously, they are a games franchise graveyard. The only ones that haven't died yet are currently in the endless sequel death spiral, with each release looking more and more like the one that came before it.
Comments
Why don't people get that by saying every game will die eventually, in the current context, I was referring to the inevitable decline of sales and multiplayer playerbase of any game.
Because this is the internet and anything you write becomes what the reader wants it to say.
So why exactly do you think NS2 is dying now? :p
Good one. :)
Their company, we've bought into it. We've paid their price for their product. As a company, if they've made enough to stay solvent, how they spend it towards future expansion, profits, markets, etc is their business decision to make. If they haven't made enough money to stay afloat, then it's their decision to secure more financial support going forward via investors/investments or future released or to fold instead... whatever they feel is the best decision for them to make as a business venture.
Wondering about their business acumen, debating whether they're aware of their player drop off etc... initially I'm sure the concern is appreciated, I imagine it becomes insulting after a while. UWE isn't just a bunch of avid, dork programmers scurrying away to bang out a cool game, willy nily. To successfully found a company, keep it afloat for this many years without a steady source of income (pre-orders don't count as a never-finished product would have to be refunded) and launch an innovative, original product on a newly developed platform, that requires an incredible amount of financial savvy.
Furthermore, lets say they profited off this venture already. If in a year their player base was down to 5 people. Wow, that would suck, but cold facts: They made their money. If they want to continue, they approach investors and say "We made A product of B years and made C profit. We can replicate this again on a similar timeline". Round 2 begins.
Fortunately, they're invested in their product, stated they've made enough gains to be around for a long while and have committed to developing this engine for other purposes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the smartest posts i've seen on the forum.
What this really means, the next time they go to make a game, they can go to a major publisher and say, "we made this game with x budget and made y profit." Now they can get an even bigger loan, more marketing, and make an even larger profit.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDIj9JBTC8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEDIj9JBTC8</a>
It turns out that the game is actually pretty good, so now I guess I could pay more if I already didn't have it. :)
The way I see it, UWE is going to have gotten most of their money up front from the first few months, and that's probably given the game a year or two of full-time development effort. After that, barring continued high sales (unlikely), they'll probably work on subsequent games, using the NS2 long tail revenue (including future sales, free weekend boosts, cross-promotions, etc) to support a lower amount of dev investment (keep one or two guys working on it to keep it running smoothly).
However, consider this. If UWE's next game uses the Spark engine, which one would assume it would, that means that development on Spark will continue even after it makes sense to invest dev effort in NS2. As long as they continue validating NS2 against newer revisions of Spark, you could continue to see improvements made to NS2 on an engine level beyond what NS2 itself might otherwise support...
Surprisingly, Skulltag doom still has people playing it, and Doom Classic Complete was sold on GoG and is still on sale from time to time on Steam as part of the id software pack. So the game technically still gets sales AND has a playerbase for modders and multiplayer. The game will probably never die until it becomes impossible to run it on current operating systems or it's no longer sold. If id keeps selling doom, people will keep buying it, so technically it will never die if it stays like that.
I don't think ID Software would be able to stay afloat financially by the sales of Doom Classic alone at this moment, would they? That's the only point I was trying to make, no game will sell well and keep bringing in the players forever. No point in worrying about it now, just enjoy the game.
I swear I saw it drop in at #2 sometime in the last week, and it put a huge smile on my face.
Either way, UW isn't going anywhere. NS2 is just another step in the company's continued success, and while it is an incredible accomplishment for them, it won't be their last. I'm sure we'll see some good things in the future from UW. Both NS2, and non NS2 related.
The only bad thing is the game could look a bit of a mess. Sort of how tf2 and their demopan. Subtle would be good. They already did it with the deluxe and black armor. Like Onos armor. Onos horse armor.
Not true. God damnit, I'm going to LAN 1.04 this weekend to prove a point.
I wouldn't really dig that myself. It would starkly contrast with the mood of NS2.
Minecraft is still selling 45,000 copies a day. Peaking 500,000 copies on Christmas. Good indie games make more than the best AAA games.
Citation Needed.
<a href="http://minecraft.net/stats" target="_blank">http://minecraft.net/stats</a>
Maybe the non-pc versions sell that much. The PC version is normally around 16k per day or less. When it was hitting big on PC it was getting 4-6k a day.
THey wouldn make a new engine anytime soon for another game.
They might even be able to licens the engine out to other smaller indie devs.
Making another game when you have a solid engine that you know well makes a huge huge difference. Then when you add improves, you can add them to not the new game alone, but also Natural Selection 2.
They should totally consider doing a single player game based on the universe of Natural Selection, i think that would be pretty damn awesome.