I just commanded my first marine game ever in all of my (10ish) years of playing NS yesterday. Just before that I commanded two winning alien games in a row, and went marine for the third, nobody wanted to com so everybody asked me to do it. I gave the disclaimer that I never did it before, told them not to expect much, and they insisted it would be fine. This was on a non rookie server iirc, and we had a lot of veteran players.
I was slow as hell at it, even neglecting to build RT's in many cases (which I never do on aliens,) but shockingly we won. Winning your first game as a commander is a pretty good ego boost :D
Took me a bit of trial and error to figure out that you have to drop medpacks where marines are walking rather than where they are standing, otherwise they never use them, even if they end up looking right at them.
<!--quoteo(post=2052997:date=Dec 29 2012, 12:33 PM:name=PimpToad)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PimpToad @ Dec 29 2012, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052997"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now I agree with you on the fact that some people are just too clueless to command right from the start. (Also doesn't help that the game has no real tutorial. Take notes from Savage 2 UWE if you want a REAL example of a hybrid game.) If it's a regular server, then I am of the opinion that they have no real business trying to learn how to comm. If they're upfront about their inexperience, then be a nice person and help them learn. Why is this comm researching advanced armory right from the start? Hey comm you do know you're researching AA right? Hey comm you're not going to cancel? Alright we have AA and 2 RT's...how about some flamethrower research? Hey comm go research flamethrowers so we can FT rush. Hey guys we have flamethrowers! Let's go burninate that Hive!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no clue why you mention Savage 2 instead of its predecessor. Savage 2's RTS mode is absolutely dull: linear automated tech research (no tech tree), the strategic decisions are down to placing buildings. There's only one resource, gathered automatically (no workers needed). The building placement is very limited in number and distance towards each other. What the Savage 2 commander does is supporting field players, that's it.
In Savage XR (which is more competitive and popular than Savage 2 btw) the races are completely asymmetric like in NS2, you got 4 different tech trees, weapons/item research is all manual, 2 resources gathered by players or workers (starcraft style), building placement is very advanced and tricky, plus ofc the buffing.
RTS/FPS hybrid gameplay of Savage XR: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4</a>
What they did to prevent noobies froom commanding is they implemented a voting system that shows your commander stats. So players can decide whether they want that particular commander or not. People new to the game can gain experience on smaller servers first, so they can improve their comm stats. Works pretty well.
<!--quoteo(post=2053639:date=Dec 31 2012, 05:34 AM:name=id_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (id_ @ Dec 31 2012, 05:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053639"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have no clue why you mention Savage 2 instead of its predecessor. Savage 2's RTS mode is absolutely dull: linear automated tech research (no tech tree), the strategic decisions are down to placing buildings. There's only one resource, gathered automatically (no workers needed). The building placement is very limited in number and distance towards each other. What the Savage 2 commander does is supporting field players, that's it.
In Savage XR (which is more competitive and popular than Savage 2 btw) the races are completely asymmetric like in NS2, you got 4 different tech trees, weapons/item research is all manual, 2 resources gathered by players or workers (starcraft style), building placement is very advanced and tricky, plus ofc the buffing.
RTS/FPS hybrid gameplay of Savage XR: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4</a>
What they did to prevent noobies froom commanding is they implemented a voting system that shows your commander stats. So players can decide whether they want that particular commander or not. People new to the game can gain experience on smaller servers first, so they can improve their comm stats. Works pretty well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mentioned Savage 2 because, in my opinion, it has a rather robust tutorial system that does a great job of introducing new players to most elements present in the game. And you pretty much described NS2 commanding in a nutshell except NS2 is far more dull in comparison. NS2 doesn't even compare to Savage, but it seemed more apt to compare it to Savage 2 given their similarities. Though I am of the opinion that while Savage 2 pales in comparison to the original in many ways, it's still more complex than NS2's commander system.
I agree that the original Savage (I suppose XR) is the better game, but I did enjoy the class and rpg system in Savage 2. Other that that, I have no clue what they were smoking when they decided on the design for Savage 2. It's pretty telling when the original is more popular than the successor (last time I checked anyway...which was awhile back).
And the commander vote system in Savage makes sense as it takes a lot of experience to even become decent in that game. Not so much in NS2 especially as there's no lobby system in place where players can chew the fat while the lengthy timer counts down before the round begins.
On a completely unrelated note, can the devs please rebind 'C' upgrade shorcut on the hive when you have it selected? Getting sick and tired of accidentally starting an upgrade (think it's Shade Hive) when all I want to do is pull my map to quickly check the battlefield. I swear you do it enough times and you get that stupid glitch where Shade upgrade just disappears off your interface.
<!--quoteo(post=2052874:date=Dec 29 2012, 10:48 AM:name=AlphaWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlphaWolf @ Dec 29 2012, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sometimes these people know how to play, rather they are just deliberately trolling you. I had a game where the marine commander dropped 6 armories and then I laughed out loud saying we just got trolled. So we all just f4 and started a new round.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> played a game on voogru yesterday where a guy troll commed by recyling everything and then playing music over the mic. then when he got ejected and everyone started a new round he said if they didnt eject me the server was going to lag. he then proceeded to ping spam the server, ruining the game for everyone.
this is what we have to look forward to in the future.
Most Alien comms I saw on public these days feel the need to waste a massive amount of resources by placing totally random whips in the most stupid locations.
Besides not building upgrade chambers or getting a second hive up, that is...
All of those comms I met were totally silent, not having or just not using a mic and denying teamchat/chat too.
And all of these comms didn't even listen to experienced players giving them advices kindly... which led to a huge amount of frustration in the end.
I totally support new people learning a game, but only if they are willing to learn and listen - and do not randomly mess around while being micless and chatless, leaving all the other players speechless.
There are "very creative" Marine commanders as well, also silent, who spend all the starting teamres on robo factory, sentries and stuff, while the Marine team still sits on 1 restower - waiting for countless res-ticks to get a second one up.
I hope everything will be better in 2013. Happy new year, everyone! :)
<!--quoteo(post=2052857:date=Dec 29 2012, 10:02 AM:name=skyewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skyewing @ Dec 29 2012, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know I dont care if someone new jumps in the command chair, having a mic is a plus, but reading and writing (showing the ablity to comprehend) is a must.
For one, Why would you think you could command your team if you dont even know what your role as a skulk/marine is..
And two, there are tutorials, watch them, play by yourself in a lan and get a feel for it. Dont go jumping into peoples games and jump in the chair because you think your the god of video games.
And three..... being new is ok, but if someone is trying to help you, and you dont type,voicechat, or even look in the direction of your players... ok just get out.
A commander has to be versatile and listen to his team adapting to any situation that should arise. Please stop toturing me and other people by jumping into the command chair as soon as you see it open. Please do everyone a favor and learn how to play as a skulk/marine first. What really has been burning me up lately, is I bark out orders on a microphone(always had one never used it, lans will do that to you) and no one listens. Whats the point of me talking again? So at this point I have to jump out of the command chair and run across the map to defend our other base. Its during this time the scrubs love to jump in and try to command instead of following my pings and voice commands.
And I couldnt figure out how to eject the commander until recently since a patch removed the button for it, a friend that just bought the game had to actually show me xP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2054586:date=Jan 2 2013, 02:22 AM:name=Teapot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teapot @ Jan 2 2013, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got the game 2 days ago.
I played comm for first time today.
I played for 12 hours straight.
After 8 hours I won every game after.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds like an infomercial. Do I get something extra if I order now? Mind throwing in free shipping?
People have to learn somehow and the game developers decided a couple videos were a substitute for a sandbox mode. So now, people have to sandbox it during actual games.
<!--quoteo(post=2054917:date=Jan 2 2013, 04:32 PM:name=Bender the Offender)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bender the Offender @ Jan 2 2013, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People have to learn somehow and the game developers decided a couple videos were a substitute for a sandbox mode. So now, people have to sandbox it during actual games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
videos work just fine in other games. how can you not learn when the player on the screen is doing exactly what youre supposed to be doing. the devs cant teach you intangibles ffs.
<!--quoteo(post=2054943:date=Jan 2 2013, 05:08 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Jan 2 2013, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2054943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->videos work just fine in other games. how can you not learn when the player on the screen is doing exactly what youre supposed to be doing. the devs cant teach you intangibles ffs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people learn best by doing. I myself prefer hands on approaches to learning new things over a video. A sandbox mode isn't that hard to include and would do an incredible amount more teaching than a video does.
The AlgerianJoin Date: 2012-12-22Member: 175962Members
The game should just display a warning when someone gets in the command chair for the first time. A big red text saying "WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT COMMANDEMENT IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO COMMAND, CLICK "LOGOUT" TO EJECT THE COMMAND CHAIR"
Comments
I was slow as hell at it, even neglecting to build RT's in many cases (which I never do on aliens,) but shockingly we won. Winning your first game as a commander is a pretty good ego boost :D
Took me a bit of trial and error to figure out that you have to drop medpacks where marines are walking rather than where they are standing, otherwise they never use them, even if they end up looking right at them.
I have no clue why you mention Savage 2 instead of its predecessor. Savage 2's RTS mode is absolutely dull: linear automated tech research (no tech tree), the strategic decisions are down to placing buildings. There's only one resource, gathered automatically (no workers needed). The building placement is very limited in number and distance towards each other. What the Savage 2 commander does is supporting field players, that's it.
In Savage XR (which is more competitive and popular than Savage 2 btw) the races are completely asymmetric like in NS2, you got 4 different tech trees, weapons/item research is all manual, 2 resources gathered by players or workers (starcraft style), building placement is very advanced and tricky, plus ofc the buffing.
RTS/FPS hybrid gameplay of Savage XR: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4</a>
What they did to prevent noobies froom commanding is they implemented a voting system that shows your commander stats. So players can decide whether they want that particular commander or not. People new to the game can gain experience on smaller servers first, so they can improve their comm stats. Works pretty well.
In Savage XR (which is more competitive and popular than Savage 2 btw) the races are completely asymmetric like in NS2, you got 4 different tech trees, weapons/item research is all manual, 2 resources gathered by players or workers (starcraft style), building placement is very advanced and tricky, plus ofc the buffing.
RTS/FPS hybrid gameplay of Savage XR: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceKJ-btTPb4</a>
What they did to prevent noobies froom commanding is they implemented a voting system that shows your commander stats. So players can decide whether they want that particular commander or not. People new to the game can gain experience on smaller servers first, so they can improve their comm stats. Works pretty well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mentioned Savage 2 because, in my opinion, it has a rather robust tutorial system that does a great job of introducing new players to most elements present in the game. And you pretty much described NS2 commanding in a nutshell except NS2 is far more dull in comparison. NS2 doesn't even compare to Savage, but it seemed more apt to compare it to Savage 2 given their similarities. Though I am of the opinion that while Savage 2 pales in comparison to the original in many ways, it's still more complex than NS2's commander system.
I agree that the original Savage (I suppose XR) is the better game, but I did enjoy the class and rpg system in Savage 2. Other that that, I have no clue what they were smoking when they decided on the design for Savage 2. It's pretty telling when the original is more popular than the successor (last time I checked anyway...which was awhile back).
And the commander vote system in Savage makes sense as it takes a lot of experience to even become decent in that game. Not so much in NS2 especially as there's no lobby system in place where players can chew the fat while the lengthy timer counts down before the round begins.
On a completely unrelated note, can the devs please rebind 'C' upgrade shorcut on the hive when you have it selected? Getting sick and tired of accidentally starting an upgrade (think it's Shade Hive) when all I want to do is pull my map to quickly check the battlefield. I swear you do it enough times and you get that stupid glitch where Shade upgrade just disappears off your interface.
played a game on voogru yesterday where a guy troll commed by recyling everything and then playing music over the mic. then when he got ejected and everyone started a new round he said if they didnt eject me the server was going to lag. he then proceeded to ping spam the server, ruining the game for everyone.
this is what we have to look forward to in the future.
Besides not building upgrade chambers or getting a second hive up, that is...
All of those comms I met were totally silent, not having or just not using a mic and denying teamchat/chat too.
And all of these comms didn't even listen to experienced players giving them advices kindly... which led to a huge amount of frustration in the end.
I totally support new people learning a game, but only if they are willing to learn and listen - and do not randomly mess around while being micless and chatless, leaving all the other players speechless.
There are "very creative" Marine commanders as well, also silent, who spend all the starting teamres on robo factory, sentries and stuff, while the Marine team still sits on 1 restower - waiting for countless res-ticks to get a second one up.
I hope everything will be better in 2013.
Happy new year, everyone! :)
For one, Why would you think you could command your team if you dont even know what your role as a skulk/marine is..
And two, there are tutorials, watch them, play by yourself in a lan and get a feel for it. Dont go jumping into peoples games and jump in the chair because you think your the god of video games.
And three..... being new is ok, but if someone is trying to help you, and you dont type,voicechat, or even look in the direction of your players... ok just get out.
A commander has to be versatile and listen to his team adapting to any situation that should arise.
Please stop toturing me and other people by jumping into the command chair as soon as you see it open. Please do everyone a favor and learn how to play as a skulk/marine first.
What really has been burning me up lately, is I bark out orders on a microphone(always had one never used it, lans will do that to you) and no one listens. Whats the point of me talking again? So at this point I have to jump out of the command chair and run across the map to defend our other base. Its during this time the scrubs love to jump in and try to command instead of following my pings and voice commands.
fffffffffffUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
And I couldnt figure out how to eject the commander until recently since a patch removed the button for it, a friend that just bought the game had to actually show me xP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got the game 2 days ago.
I played comm for first time today.
I played for 12 hours straight.
After 8 hours I won every game after.
I played comm for first time today.
I played for 12 hours straight.
After 8 hours I won every game after.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like an infomercial. Do I get something extra if I order now? Mind throwing in free shipping?
videos work just fine in other games. how can you not learn when the player on the screen is doing exactly what youre supposed to be doing. the devs cant teach you intangibles ffs.
Some people learn best by doing. I myself prefer hands on approaches to learning new things over a video. A sandbox mode isn't that hard to include and would do an incredible amount more teaching than a video does.