What ever happened to the functioning blast doors?
john_b
Join Date: 2011-03-10 Member: 85608Members
Join Date: 2011-03-10 Member: 85608Members
One of the things I loved about early NS1 was in a lot of the earlier NS1 maps had giant blast doors in certain areas you could open & close. To me, this improved the atmosphere and made it feel a lot more industrial. I used nostalgia hard of movies like "Aliens" when I'd watch one of those things open. It was pretty flexible too since in the Hammer editor it was simply two brushes linked together with a func_door entity. You chose the speed & direction if I remember correctly and the sound.
As NS1 grew however and more maps made, you saw less and less of such doors probably because it was viewed as "just getting in the way" of competitive play.
I propose that this idea be brought back, except you could add features to make it matter.
Imagine using a welder to seal off a large hallway of a map, blocking aliens out early game? They'd need an Onos with an ability unlocked to even start bashing it down.
Careful balancing by mappers would be needed so it didn't give the marines too much of an edge. I think it could be brought back in style and add just another gameplay/level element to the growing NS2.
Edit: Opening & Closing of blast doors could even be a commander ability, unlocked using resources from the Comm chair.
As NS1 grew however and more maps made, you saw less and less of such doors probably because it was viewed as "just getting in the way" of competitive play.
I propose that this idea be brought back, except you could add features to make it matter.
Imagine using a welder to seal off a large hallway of a map, blocking aliens out early game? They'd need an Onos with an ability unlocked to even start bashing it down.
Careful balancing by mappers would be needed so it didn't give the marines too much of an edge. I think it could be brought back in style and add just another gameplay/level element to the growing NS2.
Edit: Opening & Closing of blast doors could even be a commander ability, unlocked using resources from the Comm chair.
Comments
It is still being worked upon (as is weldable vents) but as yet the teams been focused on making the game as playable as possible.
There was a fair bit that sits sat on that list...some of it is fanciful and may always be on the to do list...other like the doors/vents and alien upgrades should be in sooner rather than later.
Who knows maybe its one of the things they are putting in the big patch (well more "notable patch" than the primarily performance tweaks of recent) later on this month or early next.
It is still being worked upon (as is weldable vents) but as yet the teams been focused on making the game as playable as possible.
There was a fair bit that sits sat on that list...some of it is fanciful and may always be on the to do list...other like the doors/vents and alien upgrades should be in sooner rather than later.
Who knows maybe its one of the things they are putting in the big patch (well more "notable patch" than the primarily performance tweaks of recent) later on this month or early next.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aww hells yeah
But weldable vents would be of more use to marines, but would also need more vents in the map, so they aren't crippling aliens to much. Maybe destroyable by skulks?
But weldable vents would be of more use to marines, but would also need more vents in the map, so they aren't crippling aliens to much. Maybe destroyable by skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps the doors could be only operable by marines? I remember in NS1 the aliens could press E on the door controls and open them.
Positioning of the door would be critical so its usefulness wouldn't be negated by an open vent.
The doors could provide a barrier against gorge/onos/fade attacks on an area. It would funnel attacks of those kinds into different areas of the map. It could really make the map a lot more dynamic. I suppose it could have the opposite effect in undesirable circumstances. But thats a job of the mapper I think, not the fault of the door itself.
This way the Marines could still travel through the area of the blast door, opening & then closing it. Perhaps it would be the price they paid for denying access to that area.
But weldable vents would be of more use to marines, but would also need more vents in the map, so they aren't crippling aliens to much. Maybe destroyable by skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed that is the double edge of the sword, there are probably not a lot of doors you would block off.
But the limits closing doors off throws up can be offset by PG's (as you are losing the ability to move across the map quickly) I am thinking of a door in repair on tram that marines might like to shut off and reduce entry points to 2 (plus vent).
Bigger issue I see is so few maps have many doors and not sure them being weldable would encourage many more
in a nutshell, a lot of awesome NS1 features are missing in NS2 simply because UWE don't have the time/resources to incorporate them all before release.
But weldable vents would be of more use to marines, but would also need more vents in the map, so they aren't crippling aliens to much. Maybe destroyable by skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I say let the Marines weld a door shut... if it hurts them then it's their choice :)
I miss welding the vents in nano while hearing skulk feet underground stopping them to get in.
I miss assisting another dude on welding a big gate to make way for more pressure, sitting in silence, somewhere in space, hoping no beast will notice.
I miss carrying a welder not only to weld buddies but to change the map, interact with the environment, master the danger reality.
I miss welding mechanical parts together, which you found in random places, to gain special advantages like time bombs. Wait.. nah - Nostalgia! Are you trying to cheat me again!
Like the silly rotating circular airlock on one map where people would just create a ton of shooting turrets on either side to insta-gib some poor sap (when they <i>finally</i> rotated around...assuming they didn't accidentally rub against the wall, which would instantly kill them.)
Granted I think one of the gimmicks which frequently <i>did </i>play well were the Giant Cargo Elevators which existed on one or two maps.
Basically to rate each...
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>1. Slow Blast Door</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>THE GOOD:</i>
<ul><li>+Atmosphere. </li><li>Helps break away from Wagon Wheel Design. Rooms divided by Blast Doors are "further apart" (in seconds) than they would normally be. Barring massive problems (see THE BAD), this means you could theoretically put two tech points right next to each other and they'd still be far apart in game terms because it still takes exactly the same <i>x </i>seconds to travel between them as between any two other tech points in the game.</li></ul>
<i>THE BAD: </i>
<ul><li>Slow</li><li>ARCs almost completely shatter the idea of using Blast Doors to get away from Wagon Wheel Design. The Player Travel Time between two adjacent Tech Points (split by Blast Doors) could be completely balanced, but if one arc can effectively cover two tech points at once, that's ridiculous and broken.</li></ul>
<i>THE UGLY (problems to solve or avoid):</i>
<ul><li>Marine-only control over the door (unless the map is balanced around that fact)</li><li>Doors narrow enough to be easily camped.</li><li>AI will have to respect door state.</li></ul>
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>2. Slow-Moving Cargo Elevator</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>THE GOOD:</i>
<ul><li>+Atmosphere. </li><li>Fights are actually very fun and balanced, with the right platform width and cover.</li><li>Helps break from Wagon Wheel Design</li></ul>
<i>THE BAD: </i>
<ul><li>Slow</li></ul>
<i>THE UGLY (problems to solve or avoid):</i>
<ul><li>Cargo Elevators are slow for marines but fast for wall-climbing, flying aliens. Keep that in mind for map balance purposes, and possibly give marines advantages elsewhere to balance.</li><li>Pathfinding. AI entities will handle elevators very poorly unless a lot of work is done.</li></ul>
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>3. Tram</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>THE GOOD:</i>
<ul><li>+Atmosphere.</li><li>Fast!</li><li>Helps break from Wagon Wheel Design (rooms connected by trams are closer together)</li></ul>
<i>THE BAD: </i>
<ul><li>Minor issue, but it'll be silly to add trams but the map Tram won't actually have a tram on account of being balanced without one.</li></ul>
<i>THE UGLY (problems to solve or avoid):</i>
<ul><li>Need to account for the massive advantage a moving platform will give to marines (who can now move rapidly while shooting/reloading). Lots of cover, blind corners, or a tram moving in the opposite direction (boarding party!) might help solve this.</li><li>Pathfinding.</li></ul>
(Also I should clarify that I really like Wagon Wheel map design. I feel maps like Summit play way better than Veil. But over time players will tire of the game faster if every map essentially uses the same layout.)
(Also, this forum editor makes me die a bit inside.)
in a nutshell, a lot of awesome NS1 features are missing in NS2 simply because UWE don't have the time/resources to incorporate them all before release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
;)
But maybe a counter could be implemented. Maybe the weldables would only work in a room that has power. If the power goes down, all the vents reopen and would need to be re-welded.
Like Axehilt mentioned, there could be lots of things that are weldable that could change the dynamic of the game. Here are my thoughts:
- Bridges, weld a console, a bridge is raised\lowered (could grant early access \ or late game onos blocking)
- Windows, Shutters raises on windows giving much better view of map (possibly overlooking midsection of map) - knowledge is power
- Raise ladders
And if the power goes down in these sections, the welded item returns to its starting state.
Like the silly rotating circular airlock on one map where people would just create a ton of shooting turrets on either side to insta-gib some poor sap (when they <i>finally</i> rotated around...assuming they didn't accidentally rub against the wall, which would instantly kill them.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what map is this? I don't recall such thing...
ns_Bast i think?
I miss the weld point that would blow up a wall and create a back door into the hive, which could then not be sealed if that push failed, giving aliens quicker access to the marine start (cant remember the map this was on, but it was awsome)
There is a rotating door in ns_bast but only in the secret room. The map has gone through several major changes and it has no rotating door in its current version.
Tanith
<!--quoteo(post=2058632:date=Jan 9 2013, 04:35 PM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 9 2013, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058632"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a rotating door in ns_bast but only in the secret room. The map has gone through several major changes and it has no rotating door in its current version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was originally a rotating door at the back of marine spawn, but they later removed it. As someone mentioned previously, it was common for it to glitch and kill you if you made contact with the wall while rotating.
I miss the weld point that would blow up a wall and create a back door into the hive, which could then not be sealed if that push failed, giving aliens quicker access to the marine start (cant remember the map this was on, but it was awsome)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bast sounds right. It had a rather iconic marine start area too, with a fancy control area for the command chair.
Your comment about Weld-to-Open made me realize that's actually more what you want in maps: for optional objectives to make bases <i><b>more </b></i>vulnerable as the map progresses (not less vulnerable.) It also fits with the natural design of PVP games, where you either want attrition to end the game (street fighter, battlefield) or the stakes to get higher as the game progresses to higher lethality (RTS games have stronger and more deadly units, MOBA has power ramp compared with towers, etc)
I'm not sure it makes sense to have the welder be the tool for the job though. Maybe the grenade launcher since (a) more expensive (b) later game and © GLs are pretty cruddy right now.